Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[zixo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think it’s a good move from Wellington Capital to move on Octaviar for compensation.
Possibly thought they would get the ball rolling before the AG would.

That said; I’d like to remind everyone that Guy Hutchins and Marilyn Watts are still Part of the Management team with Wellington Capital.

I really think we should be better informed. At the moment Wellington Capital seem content in feeding Information to the media and Investors having to digest it without knowing all the details.

Heck …I keep forgetting we’re just the Investors.

Wonder who’s going to pay for the Barrister? Could it be something that the Investors of PIF will have to wear as well?

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I would have thought that the RE (i.e. MFSIM) by definition, was 'responsible' and therefore liable for the $147.5 million of bad loans to MFS Ltd. Shouldn't WC be launching legal action against MFSIM and not MFS Ltd?

How do you force someone to handover $147.5 million, threaten their family?, hold a gun to their head?? Jenny, please explain!

"Wellington is claiming the Gold Coast financial and tourism group forced its fund to acquire a package of loans without any security.
"It's a breach of the Corporations Act,of the product disclosure statement, the PIF constitution, the compliance plan - this is not how this fund was meant to run," Wellington director Jenny Hutson told The Australian Financial Review yesterday."

Well, I guess the PIF will just have to wait in the que with other creditors OR is there a chance that in some instances, the directors of MFS LTD and MFSIM could be sued for monies via their insurance companies? (that is if they had such insurance coverage?)

Also, remember, that MFS LTD still ownes about a 35% share of Stella - would that be worth about 300 million? What would our % of that be? Hey! I'm starting to feel like a vulture!

All I can say folks, is, I really hope that the PIF is separated well and truly from MFS LTD /MFISM now!

 

[iamspeed]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I would have thought that the RE (i.e. MFSIM) by definition, was 'responsible' and therefore liable for the $147.5 million of bad loans to MFS Ltd. Shouldn't WC be launching legal action against MFSIM and not MFS Ltd?

How do you force someone to handover $147.5 million, threaten their family?, hold a gun to their head?? Jenny, please explain!

Hi Dora

Constitution mentions the RE and Compliance Committee (ha, ha, ha) having PI insurance. Any changes to this in recent Constitution amendments?

Has WC in effect taken over MFSIM, therefore WC would have to claim on their own policy? I wonder if premiums have been kept up to date?

I guess WC is simply making sure they are in the queue for any distributions from Octaviar, when it is wound up?

Cheers

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Dora

Constitution mentions the RE and Compliance Committee (ha, ha, ha) having PI insurance. Any changes to this in recent Constitution amendments?

Has WC in effect taken over MFSIM, therefore WC would have to claim on their own policy? I wonder if premiums have been kept up to date?

I guess WC is simply making sure they are in the queue for any distributions from Octaviar, when it is wound up?

Cheers

Hi Iamspeed,

The amendments to the constitution don't mention any change to PI insurance.
Yeah, good to be in Octaviar's queue but I wonder if she is protecting the real culprits (who are still working for her).

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

OCV has $170m in bank + $400m in assets = $570m
They owe $1b to creditors incl. our $147.5m + $50m
As an unsecured creditor we are entitled to the same as every other unsecured creditor. If we get say $75m that will add about 10c in the dollar back to investors allowing for a couple of $m for legals.
If we can get a good chunk from PI insurance from fund and if ASIC chips in (unlikely), we may get a fairly high % of our capital back. A simplistic calculation, I know, but hey I am trying to be positive!

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

1] Thanks Javier for those figures - lets hope Stella is worth double and we get 15c back lieu 10c

2] Compliments under of another AG member, who rang the WC office:

"I requested the possibility of taking a non-investor with me to the forum as I feel overwhelmed by all of this & may not be able to take in all that is presented. Apparantly this is possible, I just had to give the name of the person willing to accompany me & this info will be faxed to Wellington.

She also advised me all at PIF are still employed by Octaviar & will be advised as to what is proposed & updates etc at the forums too, which I thought somewhat strange."

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Ms Hutson said yesterday her view on the goings-on at MFS Ltd had turned on its head since Wellington settled on its purchase of the Premium Income Fund management rights two weeks ago.

From today's Australian...

"Absolutely it's changed," she said. "The situation is that there is zero value in the assets that have been transferred for $147 million."

Ms Hutson said she was not aware of the full detail of the transactions when her company agreed to buy the PIF management rights, but it was now her job to recover the money for unitholders.

PIF's $147.5 million damages claim is in addition to $50 million it is owed by its former parent.

PIF has 10,700 unitholders who each invested an average of $70,000.

"I will chase that $147 million to the end of the world," Ms Hutson said. "I will stay on the battlefield until I get it."

Let's hope so Jenny, let's hope so!!

 

[akernst]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It seems now that action is happenning by the current PIF management.

I hope that they are not using our funds to hire Solicitors, etc in getting the money
out of the Octaviar parent company. And I hope our funds are not still paying the former
PIF management salaries, etc. If so, then they have a moral obligation to resign now.
We all now, know who they are.

My prediction for the future is as follows:-

1. The PIF by some miracle or staged, will get the money owing from Octaviar (approx $200 million).

2. Octaviar parent company will be liquidated, after step 1.

3. Certain people from the Octaviar parent compant Board, will join Wellington PIF in some form.

4. These certain people will then get the money they lost, from the debacle of MFS collapse.


And one final comment, is that I am pretty sure that we all come under the prior PDS we signed up for,
and so we are all Unit Holders. The original PDS was withdrawn, so as no new investors could come in.

In that light we must be paid out our Redemptions after 360 days, depending on each unit holder's maturity
date. It is another matter whether we get 100% back, or the Unit Price will be reduced, as according to the
prior PDS.


Thanks for everyone contributing and lets never give up.

Loves you All.

 

[Mary Lynch]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes, it is confusing in that some time ago we were told that we would all HAVE to redeem our investment after 360 days. And yet it seems to be being implied now, that the longer we leave our money with them the more likely we are to get a better return.

Yes Breaker....I agree....I sure hope we are well and truely separate from Octaviar...it's certainly a worry that they are still paying PIF employees' salaries!

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning all

It seems WC is happy to distribute info via the press but not in direct real communication with investors.

I may be cynical but JH became a director of the RE and undertook due dilegence but forgot to look at loans that amount to 20% of the fund. I think not !

How was the RE forced to take the loans on behalf of the PIF.

The RE itself has to be included in this action as it was this board along with the independent compliance committee that signed off on the deal.

I am not sure how this should occur but either WC other RE or new independent RE needs to be brought in as the current RE entity and its policy must be sued.

PIF investors are entitled to more detail on these loans. If they have no value then fraud has being committed. Its time to stop this process of using the press to feed ego and provide full open communication with investors.

A loan was made to xxxx for $y. Security was --- and the reason we believe it has no value is ....

Detailed communication rather than press releases that go straight to the WC website.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Fellow AG members

We have 21 investors who have signed the letter of complaint.

I have informed my contact at ASIC that I will email the letter at 5pm tonight so please get back to me before that deadline

I made it plain that we were hoping mad and wanted immediate action, Or Else!

Just to give you an idea what we are up against ,I stated that 147 million in unsecured loans was unaccounted for by Wellington Capital .

The Analyst replied $147 dollars . No I said please listen , ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY SEVEN MILLION

If this situation requires another letter to the media, government ministers, Nick Sherry etc regarding ASIC, ASX incompetence, so be it.

We are not in the realm of the hypothetical any more, their have been serious transgression of the law by certain directors and somebody will have to pay the price.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Why oh why always these JH press releases/interviews to the AFR before informing PIF investors of the latest disaster? The AFR has a restricted readership. Any PIF investors who aren't linked to the internet would be well and truly left out of the loop. I notice that amongst JH's degrees, there isn't a Master of Communications listed. Understandably.

 

[charles36]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi folks looks like some positive action at last.

However, when I invested with MFS about 8 years ago I was told that the Fund employed Perpetual Nominees as the Guardian of the Fund and they were to ensure that no monies were transferred or loaned without authority of Perpetual.

I have contacted Perpetual, unable to reach executive level, but was assured that their role was to pay distributions on behalf of MFS and later Octaviar.

Can anyone tell me the correct role of Perpetual? I understand that they have large Funds and it may well be that they have acted contrary to our interests.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who can clarify the issue please.

regards,

charles36

 

[The Mint Man]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi guys, I posted this in the OCV thread... thought it may as well go here too.

Anyone notice that 1 trade went through today? Or thats atleast what is showing up on my comsec.
It was for 123,500 shares... heres a pic:-
View attachment 21893

Please explain???

By the way any general news on this dog?

Cheers

 

[white_goodman]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi guys, I posted this in the OCV thread... thought it may as well go here too.

Anyone notice that 1 trade went through today? Or thats atleast what is showing up on my comsec.
It was for 123,500 shares... heres a pic:-
View attachment 21893

Please explain???

By the way any general news on this dog?

Cheers

surely thats a glitch...

 

[The Mint Man]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

surely thats a glitch...

Dunno...:dunno: anyone else?

 

[erniel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Messrs. Peacock and King who were chairman and managing director respectively of MFS and Mr Hutchings PIf ceo at the time that all these what appear to be transgressions and fraudulant transactions took place with the PIF funds need to be hauled up to face a criminal enquiry.
In fact I would think that the new RE of the PIF that is WC should lay charges against them as soon as possible with the Police.
Perhaps a time of incarceration in the police cells would help loosen their tongues and jog their memories and assist all in recovering the $147.5 million owed to the PIF.
The buck stops at those who are ultimately responsible.

 

[white_goodman]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dunno...:dunno: anyone else?

reads the same on the ASX, hows that possible, does that mean 126,000 was sold?

 

[Bumblebee]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes, OCV seems to trading again, 2 Trades listed. Here's a snap from NAB Trading today..

]Today's Trades

Code: Order: Last to First First to Last
OCTAVIAR FPO Code Last +/- % Bid Ask Open High Low Trades Volume OpEst SurVol VWAP Status
OCV 0 0.0 0.0% - - - - - 2 52,000 0 0 0 Suspended


Time SSN Price Quantity
07:05 232 475 26,000 EP [/I] [/I][/I] ...end quote

Can anyone explain what these trades mean when OCV is 'suspended'.

Back to PIF....I am an AG member and would like to see some sort of 'mission statement ' worked up for the AG. I feel it would help us stay focused on task.
Something like.....An Action group of concerned PIF investors who diligently monitor the events relating to our fund.
We keep fellow investors/members informed and interpret the direction and decisions made concerning the fund.
And where necessary challenge and effect new directions that may be in the best interest of Investors.

This is only a very rough sugestion. Something like a clear mission statement would be good to represent the AG at the upcoming WC meetings. This could concisely and clearly indicate to newcomers what we are in fact about.

Any ideas ,comments.

 

[BootsnAll]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes, OCV seems to trading again, 2 Trades listed. Here's a snap from NAB Trading today..

]Today's Trades

Code: Order: Last to First First to Last
OCTAVIAR FPO Code Last +/- % Bid Ask Open High Low Trades Volume OpEst SurVol VWAP Status
OCV 0 0.0 0.0% - - - - - 2 52,000 0 0 0 Suspended


Time SSN Price Quantity
07:05 232 475 26,000 EP [/i] [/i][/i] ...end quote

Can anyone explain what these trades mean when OCV is 'suspended'.

These trades are probably off market transfers i.e. transfers from a superannuation fund to personal portfolio.

This could be done to claim a capital loss prior to end of financial year.

This is quite legal.