Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

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Hang on a minute Burnt, if you are talking about accuracy!

Page 63 of the Memorandum clearly states in Note #1 "No management fee will be charged until after 3 cents in cash has been paid to Unitholders."

Hi JohnH,

P.63 of the EM does in fact state exactly what you have quoted. On pages 14,15 & 73 explanations are also given about the management fee but no mention is made there about the fees not being charged until after the 3c cash payment to Unit Holders.

More importantly though, I think the thing to consider is that the Explanatory Memorandum is not a legally binding document (otherwise WC might be in trouble over Unit Holders not getting their Oct. cash payment!).

The legally binding document (Trust Deed) is the Funds Constitution. The constitution states that the RE is entitled to 0.7%p.a. of the value of the total funds under management as determined with reference to the preceding month and the most recent audited accounts. This fee will be calculated and payable monthly in advance.

In other words, in calculating the fee, reference is made to the number of units in the Fund as per the previous month and the value of those units is determined with reference to the last audited accounts. This fee is payable monthly in advance - no reference is made to payment of this fee being dependent on distributions being made to Unit Holders.

The Constitution determines what WC is legally entitled to do (as voted on by Unit Holders), it does not matter what may or may not have been stated in the EM or anywhere else. The Constitution should be read carefully, especially by all those that voted in favour of it.

I am not stating that "this is going to happen" or "that's going to happen", I'm just stating the facts.

On the matter of fees, wonder what the "Handling Fees" will work out to be. These are the fees WC promised to financial advisors who got their clients to vote in favour of WC's resolutions.

Wonder who'll get paid first ?????
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.Quote Burnt; Re-financed Loan - the loan of $9.5mil is a completely new loan provided by a "non-bank" lender (as stated in the Annual Report). End Quote :::::page 26 annual report: Since the end of the financial year, the bank debt, which had been incurred by the previous directors and which carried with it the threat of liquidation, has been repaid. Accordingly the threat of receivership from this source has been extinguished. To enable the repayment of the bank debt, the fund has entered into a new finance facility with a non-bank financial institution.:::: I read that as the remainder of the existing loan was refinanced. Seamisty

Regarding the $9.5mil Loan. Seamisty, your post 3640 stated "that loan of $9.5mil was the remaining part of the $100mil outstanding from RBOS when WC took control. It was renegotiated, not a new loan".

By the way, who is this loan with ?? What are the terms and conditions ??
Shouldn't Unit Holders be entitled to know - we are the ones that have to repay it.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

so what is happehing with that claim in the supreme court lodged by wc ,that was months ago when is it going to be heard. or was it lodged just so nothing could be said because it is before the court

Dear Sume

Please also refer to my post #3527.

To me it appears to be window dressing and another non deliverable.

I suppose we should start to simply list on the forum the non deliverables to date such as the members representatives, dividends etc. and list reasonable explanations as to why they may not able to be delivered.

This is not helped by the WC publicity machine and non transperant operations with no member representation as promised.

The new ASIC reporting rules as previouly indicated on my other previous post may force WC into more disclosure.

No wonder this string is the most popular on Aussie Stock Forums with a fund and RE like ours.

Regards

Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Regarding the $9.5mil Loan. Seamisty, your post 3640 stated "that loan of $9.5mil was the remaining part of the $100mil outstanding from RBOS when WC took control. It was renegotiated, not a new loan".

By the way, who is this loan with ?? What are the terms and conditions ??
Shouldn't Unit Holders be entitled to know - we are the ones that have to repay it.
Suggest if you think you are entitled to this information and would like to participate in the responsibility of repaying it, then by all means contact WC and inform them of what you perceive to be your right. I am quite happy for WC to earn their money and do their job without personal intervention from me. Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Quote Burnt::If WIM were still the RE and they were to receive management fees before May 2009 (representing their net profit as all costs are paid by the Fund), then purchase price would be 4 x that amount.

WIM are no longer RE !! WIM will have no net profit !!! end quote::: What is the significance of this debate, if there is a profit WC will pay OCV four times that amount, and the value of NTA of assets of the PIF at the end of the 12 month period , regardless of who the RE is. End of story. Seamisty

Seamisty, yes you are right WC did purchase the PIF. What you seem to have been terribly confused and mistaken about is the calculation of the purchase price it will pay. I hope you have managed to work it out by now.

The significance of it is that if WC manages to get out of paying the $10 - $20mil purchase price to OCV, then as creditors of OCV this means less for PIF. Dangler, I for one do not consider this to be meaningless crap.

I sincerely hope that some of the information put forward on this forum today has helped to clear up some of the gross misunderstanding and misconceptions that some Unit Holders still have. Perhaps this is due to innacurate or inadequate information being given out.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

OMG OCV have debts in excess of over $1.3B dollars and rising everyday, and you lose sleep over whether WC will or will not pay 10-20 million piddly dollars (in the scheme of things), to add to the pool to be divided amongst all creditors. PLEASE GET A GRIP ON REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Such is the hatred that the likes of Burnout and Dora have for the fact that WC controls our fund by majority democratic vote, that they will soon start blaming WC for the fall of OCV itself. Look at the real culprits and don't tie yourself down by this any further, anyone would think you were asked to pay for the cost of acquiring the PIF out of your own pockets. Jeeze Louise!!!!

P.S. Where are you Rance...I miss your calming sanity?????
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

so what is happehing with that claim in the supreme court lodged by wc ,that was months ago when is it going to be heard. or was it lodged just so nothing could be said because it is before the court
The claim was filed in the Brisbane Registry on 24 June 2008. Assuming the papers were served on the defendants within 7 days (1 July 2008), the defendants had 28 days to file a defence (29 July 2008). A Notice of Intention to Defend should have been filed with the court. No Notice of Intention to Defend has been filed with the court.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Look at the real culprits and don't tie yourself down by this any further, anyone would think you were asked to pay for the cost of acquiring the PIF out of your own pockets. Jeeze Louise!!!!

P.S. Where are you Rance...I miss your calming sanity?????


Dear Danger

We all, as members pay for WC costs one way or the other.

I have suggested some calming solutions before, very well proven by past experiances of many.

Regards


Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There are now over 3700 posts to this thread. I agree, Splitpin, it is time for WC to meet with some PIF investor reps. It's our money that's been locked up. I guess we could reach a total of 7000 posts by this time next year and still be in a depressing fog!
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The claim was filed in the Brisbane Registry on 24 June 2008. Assuming the papers were served on the defendants within 7 days (1 July 2008), the defendants had 28 days to file a defence (29 July 2008). A Notice of Intention to Defend should have been filed with the court. No Notice of Intention to Defend has been filed with the court.

so does that mean that the claim was just a sham and jh never intended to sue her friend chris scott,and accept the pittance offered to her and all the other tame re's like msf pacific etc leaving stella untouched so then being debt free , the share price in oct will go up and chrssie will get his money back good plan
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There are now over 3700 posts to this thread. I agree, Splitpin, it is time for WC to meet with some PIF investor reps. It's our money that's been locked up. I guess we could reach a total of 7000 posts by this time next year and still be in a depressing fog!

Dear Selciper

I will get howled down for this suggestion, but we will give it a go for discussion on the forum.

One nominated PIF AG rep + one nominated PIFI rep + one nominated neutral agreed respected person to hold a formal discussion with WC to see if we can go forward in a positive and not destructive way.

Now to me that is very easy to organise and nobody has to retract their views etc.

Lets do it

Regards

Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There are now over 3700 posts to this thread. I agree, Splitpin, it is time for WC to meet with some PIF investor reps. It's our money that's been locked up. I guess we could reach a total of 7000 posts by this time next year and still be in a depressing fog!
Selciper, I don't think there would be a problem with meeting with JH, it is just that you will not be told any more information than you can get by calling the hotline. If those who answer your call are unsure of anything, I find they seek further advice from those more qualified and pass it on. JH has already indicated to the AG that there is very little at this point in time that can be passed on to investors, but that does not mean that WC is not sitting idle in the meantime. If you have questions you would like put foward that do not require a price sensitive market response contact WC yourself. JH is not going to risk making statements regarding distributions again that cannot be met until they are absolutely certain that they will take place, the priority being I think is re paying the outstanding loan of $9.5million which is due at the end of November. I just read SPLITPINS post, and yes by all means go for it, just not sure who you will get to agree to it. At the end of the day, it will not make one scrap of difference to some unit holders what JH says, they have already reached their own conclusions, but I personally have no problem with your suggestion. Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

so does that mean that the claim was just a sham and jh never intended to sue her friend chris scott,and accept the pittance offered to her and all the other tame re's like msf pacific etc leaving stella untouched so then being debt free , the share price in oct will go up and chrssie will get his money back good plan
Sume, I seriously think that if you are a unit holder (and I am not saying you aren't) you have a lot of background research on your investment to catch up on. Most of the information can be obtained by googling each issue individually. All the information is out there, but you sound as though you have already formed an opinion and I am not sure of your agenda. Call WC hotline for any information you require, the number is on most of the correspondence you would have received from WC in regard to your investment. At least that way, you can get your answer from the (dead) horses mouth. Seamisty:D
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty,

Thanks so much once again for giving instructions on contacting JH and WC -
how to, the purposes of, how JH & staff will respond, the restrictions, etc.

You sound like you might be JH's personal assistant.

Are you saying it is pointless for unit holders to meet with WC ? Or is it only certain unit holders that should be discouraged from trying to obtain information ? What would the point of having a unit holder advisory committee be then ?
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty,

Thanks so much once again for giving instructions on contacting JH and WC -
how to, the purposes of, how JH & staff will respond, the restrictions, etc.

You sound like you might be JH's personal assistant.

Are you saying it is pointless for unit holders to meet with WC ? Or is it only certain unit holders that should be discouraged from trying to obtain information ? What would the point of having a unit holder advisory committee be then ?
Quite the contrary Burnt, I suggest you or Dora put your hand up to represent the PIFI, I am sure either of you will be well received by WC. It does seem that there a few who are a bit shy using the hotline and I have always found it very usefull, that is why I encourage others to use it. My expertise lies in other areas although I am sure I would make a good PR person just as some would qualify as NR people. Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Splitpin -

These are just random thoughts. Three reps to meet with JH in a non-confrontational manner, primarily to understand and pass on JH's present strategies. The reps, for convenience, should be Queensland residents. They would need a technical understanding of how the fund works, that is to have accounting knowledge.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

...JH has already indicated to the AG that there is very little at this point in time that can be passed on to investors, but that does not mean that WC is not sitting idle in the meantime. If you have questions you would like put foward that do not require a price sensitive market response contact WC yourself. JH is not going to risk making statements regarding distributions again that cannot be met until they are absolutely certain that they will take place,...
There is lots of information which WC should be providing us about our fund. Do not be put off asking a question because it is price sensitive. Information being price sensitive dose not prevent WC from disclosing, it just means WC must announce the information to the NSX first. This is a good thing. Hopefully if lots of unit holders contact WC asking for info we'll see NSX announcements worth reading.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

OMG OCV have debts in excess of over $1.3B dollars and rising everyday, and you lose sleep over whether WC will or will not pay 10-20 million piddly dollars (in the scheme of things), to add to the pool to be divided amongst all creditors....
A fifth of $20 mill is 1% of our fund and not to be scoffed at.
I hope the administrators of OCV don’t have this attitude. Deloitte are not going to find $1.3 billion under a rock, so if they aren’t going after smaller amounts (and I don’t consider $20 mill small!) then we’ve got no hope of seeing money from OCV. Danger’s anger towards OCV seems to prevent him from seeing that creditors (us) are the ones who loose out if OCV is denied money owed to it.

On the matter of the PIF claim against OCV - As there has been no notice of intent to defend from OCV you could assume that WC and OCV were planning to do a deal but now that OCV is in administration the deal between Chris and Jenny might be irrelevant. WC need to disclose the state of the claim and if the PIF is recognised by the OCV administrator as an equal first creditor. If the PIF isn’t, then WC need to pursue the claim and get it recognised by the court. Again this needs to be disclosed to the market.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My anger toward OCV is mild compared to your hatred of WC now controlling this fund. It is plain as day to see from your many posts, and this taints your judgement of the way this fund is being steered by the current RE. You wanted it to go a certain way and it didn't, something you can't get over and it has manifested into hate. Sorry, just calling it like I see it.
 
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