Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Bleating like sheep here on the forum day after day as to what a bunch of BS artists all and sundry are who is remotely connected to WC is not going to alter the fact that due to a GLOBAL ECONOMIC MELTDOWN, every single person in some way will be affected in some way!!!! On a daily basis there are reports of more hardship to come. The following snippets are from an interview with the PM in todays AGE:::::::"You will see slower growth and you will see higher unemployment. It's important to level with people about the challenges we now face, the threats we now face. They are real ”” I don't wish to pretend otherwise."
In his strongest comments yet, Mr Rudd said Australia was facing a global recession that was getting "worse and worse and worse".His comments follow news that both the US and British economies are shrinking ”” despite end-of-week rallies in the American and European sharemarkets. Japan has also unveiled a $US277 billion stimulus package, with Prime Minister Taro Aso calling the crisis a "once-in-a-century event".


"When you look at the data in the US, the UK and elsewhere, you see the warnings from the International Monetary Fund, this unfolding global economic recession is going to make it tougher and tougher and tougher for Australia."
PRIME MINISTER Kevin Rudd has warned it would be grossly irresponsible of the Government not to spend the remaining budget surplus to shield Australia from the "unfolding global economic recession".

But he concedes this might not be enough to protect the nation from higher unemployment and slower economic growth as the international crisis unfolds.

"It will be tough, ugly and hard,"

You will see slower growth and you will see higher unemployment. It's important to level with people about the challenges we now face, the threats we now face. They are real ”” I don't wish to pretend otherwise."In his strongest comments yet, Mr Rudd said Australia was facing a global recession that was getting "worse and worse and worse".

"When you look at the data in the US, the UK and elsewhere, you see the warnings from the International Monetary Fund, this unfolding global economic recession is going to make it tougher and tougher and tougher for Australia.":::::::: Have a look at what is going on outside of the PIF instead of wallowing in self pity, holding JH personally responsible for circumstances that are outside of her control. Every single unit holder will be bitterly disapointed at not receiving anticipated ditributions, but I will be happy just to see the remaining assetts not deteriorate further, or worst case scenario, the PIF placed in voluntary administration. Especially now some are actually estimating the current unit value at 15cents. Take out the costs involved in winding up the fund and other liabilities and you don't need to be a Rhodes scholar to work out what would be left. By all means hassle the butt off JH over wrong constitutions and other misdemeanors until she gets it right, but it will not change the fact that this fund and many others will struggle for survival, no matter who is at the helm or what colour jacket they wear. If JH manages to keep the PIF as a going concern, I will give her my crown and pedestal!!!! Seamisty

None of us want a lecture about the world finance mess We all know that it gets shoved at us ever day It started over a year ago Your not telling us anything new
It was there when WC took over the fund JH must have knoun things were bad well i did anyway but she went on a road show saying things that will never happend I am no financeual guro but i knew then she had bit of more then she can chew or did not have a clue what she was saying Well all the chickens Or is it rousters are comming home to roust now

 

[mgr2118]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My fears are growing that WC staff may be totally overwhelmed by this current situation. WC is a pretty small outfit, hardly large enough to cope with a crisis of this magnitude. Extreme fatigue will surely set in soon, so I hope that they are getting some external assistance providing clear-headed advice. Hopping mad as I am, I suspect that this is the wrong time to be slamming WC non-stop with our cudgels. To continue our 24/24 running critiques (myself included) may be ultimately self-defeating for us. It's up to the PIF board to take control of the situation and - from today - demonstrate their so-far concealed talents. There is a limit to how much pressure any administration can take on its own. Our fortunes are dependent on WC being able to maintain internal operational harmony. What's going to happen tomorrow when they can expect thousands of phone calls? Perhaps the board members can help man the hotline. And, as well, there are court battles WC are having to cope with! Exhausting.

Although I commend your emotions in this matter, this Forum would not comprise 170+ pages if WC were:-

* Clear
* Concise
* Honest

in all their communications. The majority of contributors on this Forum have been either:-

* Asking obvious questions of others
* Making comments on what they may have read or heard

and unfortunately

* providing opinion on whether they liked or dis-liked particular contribution.

None of this would have existed if WC, via their website or other modern communications and marketing tools, had kept their "customers" informed.

My fear is that NOW that we have been listed on the NSX, that, as previously suggested by Dora, that WC have a perfect excuse to NOT provide timely and accurate information to their "customers". If we knew what was happening, then we would have an UNFAIR advantage, BECAUSE we are now listed on the NSX, and the PIF is subject to the NSX disclosure rules.

Being even more cynical, a hypothesis could be devised, based on the track record over the past few months, that this was the plan all along - I recall a comment from the floor in the Sydney WC Information Session where a unitholder suggested that JH had the makings for a Politician.

Also, in terms of the "emotions" expressed at these sessions, does anyone know of a single case where WC paid out for hardship? ......just wondering?

 

[deano1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

........... surely that's what PIF is all about!!

John H - spot on right if the fund was long cash - there probably is some real bargins to be had out there - but the fund is long loans and exposed to the ability of the borrowers to make interest payments and capital repayments the very people who are going to have to liquidate if they can't make their interest payments - once they work out there no equity in the asset - they go guts up and guess who carrys the burden - yep your fund with your money in it.

What really pisses me off - is JH has told you guys you were to get some sort of money back ASAP - to make that sort of statement the money should have been locked in and have been ready to be distributed.

I can probably start a list here of the rest of the excuses your going to get in the next 6 months from JH & WC.

And you know what - your still going to stuggle to get any cash out of them and the value if the fund will continue to go down all the while - WC will be recovering their expenses at your cost.

and yep investment advisers, bankers etc all fall into the category of having reputations of used car sales men - and that to me is a very sad day for the profession i love and its going to be a long time before that reputation is restored.

An old mentor once told me - son you dont get judged on how well you do when the markets are good - but the person who does well for their clients when markets turn down and protects his clients capital will always have clients and will always do well.

Putting any credit on being a financial genius in the last 5 years - i just laugh at - i could put a monkey on the phone in the last 5 years and they would have made money for their clients - that monkey now has no clients because he has blown all their capital and without capital you cant play.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Although I commend your emotions in this matter, this Forum would not comprise 170+ pages if WC were:-

* Clear
* Concise
* Honest

in all their communications. The majority of contributors on this Forum have been either:-

* Asking obvious questions of others
* Making comments on what they may have read or heard

and unfortunately

* providing opinion on whether they liked or dis-liked particular contribution.

None of this would have existed if WC, via their website or other modern communications and marketing tools, had kept their "customers" informed.

My fear is that NOW that we have been listed on the NSX, that, as previously suggested by Dora, that WC have a perfect excuse to NOT provide timely and accurate information to their "customers". If we knew what was happening, then we would have an UNFAIR advantage, BECAUSE we are now listed on the NSX, and the PIF is subject to the NSX disclosure rules.

Being even more cynical, a hypothesis could be devised, based on the track record over the past few months, that this was the plan all along - I recall a comment from the floor in the Sydney WC Information Session where a unitholder suggested that JH had the makings for a Politician.

Also, in terms of the "emotions" expressed at these sessions, does anyone know of a single case where WC paid out for hardship? ......just wondering?

Yes I do know of a personal hardship case receiving a payment. Regardless of how informed or uninformed investors are from management in relation to shares, funds, companies or just day to day events, that is what forums are for. Discussion. There are hundreds of them covering thousands of topics. This thread pales into insignificance compared to some elsewhere as far as content and length is concerned. So if these sites are purely for uninformed investors, WC is not alone in this regard or none of them would be necessary. Seamisty

 

[deano1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Although I commend your emotions in this matter, this Forum would not comprise 170+ pages if WC were:-

* Clear
* Concise
* Honest

in all their communications. The majority of contributors on this Forum have been either:-

* Asking obvious questions of others
* Making comments on what they may have read or heard

and unfortunately

* providing opinion on whether they liked or dis-liked particular contribution.

None of this would have existed if WC, via their website or other modern communications and marketing tools, had kept their "customers" informed.

My fear is that NOW that we have been listed on the NSX, that, as previously suggested by Dora, that WC have a perfect excuse to NOT provide timely and accurate information to their "customers". If we knew what was happening, then we would have an UNFAIR advantage, BECAUSE we are now listed on the NSX, and the PIF is subject to the NSX disclosure rules.

Being even more cynical, a hypothesis could be devised, based on the track record over the past few months, that this was the plan all along - I recall a comment from the floor in the Sydney WC Information Session where a unitholder suggested that JH had the makings for a Politician.

Also, in terms of the "emotions" expressed at these sessions, does anyone know of a single case where WC paid out for hardship? ......just wondering?

re hardship - i would bet my younger brother who is an investor in this fund and the only reason why i'm even remotely involved would have surely qualified - 35 year old - self employed - single man - diagnosed with cancer - had no private health insurance - so paid his own way on full fare to get the best medical help he could get - was unable to work so exhausted all his other savings bar the $75,000 he had in this fund that was within 1 month of maturing - he provided all the documentation that he was requested to provide - nothing - lucky he has a family that loves him and supports him that has been able to help him out - i know there are people out there who have similar stories and no other avenue of support.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mgr 2118 - Your post 3386 is very sound. I agree with every point that you've listed. I think the coming days will be critical to us all, as the pressures on WC are only increasing by the hour. I'm assuming that you feel that any temporary cease fire won't help one iota. Well, I only made the suggestion faintly hoping that it might somehow assist. Also, we all know that boards sometimes step as far back as possible when operations begin to fail. If there aren't internal energy-draining spats at present, I'd be very surprised.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mgr 2118 - Your post 3386 is very sound. I agree with every point that you've listed. I think the coming days will be critical to us all, as the pressures on WC are only increasing by the hour. I'm assuming that you feel that any temporary cease fire won't help one iota. Well, I only made the suggestion faintly hoping that it might somehow assist. Also, we all know that boards sometimes step as far back as possible when operations begin to fail. If there aren't internal energy-draining spats at present, I'd be very surprised.

Dear Selciper

Do you think that a possible way forward for us is to find a common ground (although this may be unpopular to some) and to meet with WC, as soon as possible to better understand the real facts and to consider some real rules / deliverables for the future.

Regards


Splitpin

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Splitpin - From my previous experience at management-board level, any attempt at compromise and understanding between parties in a crisis is better than confrontation. At least the combined energies are then being used in a positive way. But the mood here seems to be (understandably) against such a strategy. You know the old saying, "Jaw- jaw not war-war."

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

"war war"

"jaw jaw"

Say no more!

 

[simgrund]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My fears are growing that WC staff may be totally overwhelmed by this current situation. WC is a pretty small outfit, hardly large enough to cope with a crisis of this magnitude. Extreme fatigue will surely set in soon, so I hope that they are getting some external assistance providing clear-headed advice. Hopping mad as I am, I suspect that this is the wrong time to be slamming WC non-stop with our cudgels. To continue our 24/24 running critiques (myself included) may be ultimately self-defeating for us. It's up to the PIF board to take control of the situation and - from today - demonstrate their so-far concealed talents. There is a limit to how much pressure any administration can take on its own. Our fortunes are dependent on WC being able to maintain internal operational harmony. What's going to happen tomorrow when they can expect thousands of phone calls? Perhaps the board members can help man the hotline. And, as well, there are court battles WC are having to cope with! Exhausting.

SELCIPER
I commend you on this show of common sense.
Let's combine to bring in Great Doom's considerable clout to speed up this positive contagion.
Stay on course, best wishes

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Sorry been away trying to get some work to put food on the table.

Just went on the NSX website - -http://www.nsxa.com.au and found something very interesting. Wellington Capital Limited is one of the 32 Advisors registered by the NSX Australia wide to assist companies to list on the NSX - joined 2007. These advisors pay an application fee $2,500 and a annual fee $1,000. Issuers (companies that list) are required under the NSX Rules to obtain the services of the nominated advisor at all times while the listing is current. No wonder the PIF is headed to NSX - and yes another convenient source of fees for WC!!

But, guess who is also one of the registered advisors - McCullough Robertson Lawyers Brisbane- her husband's law firm and the practice where she was a partner for many years.

Talk about keeping it in the family!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the AG want to use the logo we designed it is attached in a word file in 2 sizes - just cut and paste or resize the logos.

.....Does anyone else think this is strange?....McCullough Robertson were until about 2007 also the lawyers for MFS. McCullough Robertson are also the lawyers for CITY PACIFIC.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.....Does anyone else think this is strange?....McCullough Robertson were until about 2007 also the lawyers for MFS. McCullough Robertson are also the lawyers for CITY PACIFIC.

Isn't one of them also the husband of JH?

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Isn't one of them also the husband of JH?

.....Yes, Brett Heading, Chairman of Partners and Partner,McCULLOUGH AND ROBERTSON, in the Corporate Advisory Group......has managed numerous capital raisings over his career, including many ASX listings.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SELCIPER
I commend you on this show of common sense.
Let's combine to bring in Great Doom's considerable clout to speed up this positive contagion.
Stay on course, best wishes

Thanks, Simgrund. The sheep that recently followed behind WC in all good faith may well turn into howling wolves any day. Every morning on this thread somebody posts more worrying information that they've dug up - and so on it goes. Look at the huge number of well-meant posts/contributions to this site since May and consider where we are now. We're in the quicksands.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.....Yes, Brett Heading, Chairman of Partners and Partner,McCULLOUGH AND ROBERTSON, in the Corporate Advisory Group......has managed numerous capital raisings over his career, including many ASX listings.

Good research marcom and k smith

I remember at the Newcastle WC/JH roadshow meeting at Newcastle Panthers Club, that one intrepid investor asked JH a similar direct question,

The question was something like, I understand your husband is on the board of the NSX is that true?

She appeared quite flummoxed by that question, halted and appeared to look around for advice from staff. JH then said, something like NO! I can categorically say, he is not!

It might be a matter of semantics, he may not be on the board, but if he had some connection, she should have said so, albeit via registered advisors McCullough Robertson Lawyers Brisbane. At the time of the meeting they may not have been advisors, I don't know.

Do you remember that question? Most won't because it was in the second half of the meeting after the break. The poor guy felt like a fool because he thought he had a valid question.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good research marcom and k smith

I remember at the Newcastle WC/JH roadshow meeting at Newcastle Panthers Club, that one intrepid investor asked JH a similar direct question,

The question was something like, I understand your husband is on the board of the NSX is that true?

She appeared quite flummoxed by that question, halted and appeared to look around for advice from staff. JH then said, something like NO! I can categorically say, he is not!

It might be a matter of semantics, he may not be on the board, but if he had some connection, she should have said so, albeit via registered advisors McCullough Robertson Lawyers Brisbane. At the time of the meeting they may not have been advisors, I don't know.

Do you remember that question? Most won't because it was in the second half of the meeting after the break. The poor guy felt like a fool because he thought he had a valid question.

Has anyone actually confirmed that he is JH's husband or is it hearsay? I am not saying he isn't, justI have never seen anything to back this up thats all. Seamisty

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.Quote from this mornings AFR:-:::: " Another Octaviar creditor, Double Knob Pty Ltd, also hired a silk to help stop the winding up. Double Knob is headed by Brett Heading, chairman of Bribane law firm McCullough Robertson." :::: For those of you who don't already know, Brett Heading is JH's husband. JH has already said she will do her utmost best to restore stability and value to the PIF, so if she gets assistance from her husband to achieve this, I don't have a problem with that. (please don't shoot the messenger!:hide Seamisty

......you told us he is her husband, seamisty.

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

......you told us he is her husband, seamisty.

.....Sorry, to be exact, you posted this some time ago.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.....Sorry, to be exact, you posted this some time ago.

I was sent that info from another investor in the PIF ,from memory it was off the WC website, but I can't find any reference to it now.I did not keep a copy at the time. I think it may have been removed from the website.. A bit of a mystery. I will check with my original source. Perhaps they are no longer together? Seamisty

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I was sent that info from another investor in the PIF ,from memory it was off the WC website, but I can't find any reference to it now.I did not keep a copy at the time. I think it may have been removed from the website.. A bit of a mystery. I will check with my original source. Perhaps they are no longer together? Seamisty

Either way her initials are still JH! Heh Heh!

PS She was previously a partner for 10 years in the corporate division of McCullough Robertson Lawyers.