Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

like2ski · 27 August 2008

Re: PIF vote

Burnt said:
Hi all, very concerned at the confusion being generated by WC over voting procedures. Is this intentional or are they as stupid as they appear to be ???
Apart from the misleading, unsubstantiated, limited and threatening info supplied by them, the voting procedures and form supplied is very badly put together. It would seem that you have to appoint a proxy and you have to submit your vote via post or email. If you don't read and correctly interpret every word on the voting form, you could very easily invalidate your vote - how cunning - or are they really stupid. I've seen Scouts organise themselves better than this. How did these people come to control a multi million dollar investment fund ???????
Tip 1. If your unit holding is in the name of a company I suggest you download the ""Certificate of Appointment of Corporate Representative" form from Computershare. Go to www.computershare.com.au then log into Investor Centre. Then at the left of the screen under "Manage" click on downloadable forms. Go down to corporate forms and you will see it there. Had to phone Computershare to work it out (more on that phone call next). If you want to attend the meeting on Sept.18 you must have one of these forms filled out and I would also suggest attaching it to your voting form just to be sure that your vote is considered valid.
Tip 2. I called WC today to ask whether unit holders can place their vote at the meeting on Sept.18 (I actually said "Sept.11" how funny !!!). The girl said yes that unitholders are entitled to do this, however they need to register your attendance at the meeting and you register by ticking the voting form and sending it to them. I said "but I don't want to sent my form in, I WANT TO VOTE AT THE MEETING. "Oh" she said, "well um.........". I suggested that I tick the box on the form to say I will be attending the meeting, but leave my voting choices blank and fax it to them with my details. She said "yeah that's a good idea". These people are a constant source of amusement.
Tip 3. Each form is barcoded and identifiable. More on this next.
By the way, my suggestion is VOTE NO, NO, NO.

Hi Burnt
I fully agree with your sentiments and voting suggestion i.e. NO, NO, NO. Have you sought professional advice, or are you aware of anyone else that has, on which way we should be vote and/or handle WC? As you stated we don't know what games they are playing and /or manipulating the whole scenario. I am concerned that we may jeopardize our position by possibly making the wrong moves. Moreover how can we ensure that the majority of members are well informed and submit valid/correct choices to avoid ending up with disastrous results aided and abetted by WC!!!
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
like2ski

Burnt · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi again,
I called Computershare to work out how to download the form I needed. I then asked the girl to verify that Computershare were actually counting the votes for the Wellington PIF. She went away then came back saying that yes, Computershare would be counting the votes. I then asked why then are unitholders being asked to send their votes to Wellingtons postal address. She said that was a bit odd, usually when they are used to count votes, votes are directly mailed to them. She went away again then came back saying that sometimes this does occur, that votes are not sent to them directly but forwarded to them by the company concerned. I said, so does this mean that the staff at Wellington open all the votes themselves and then post them onto you. Yes, she said. I said, HHHmmmmm........but my problem is that I don't trust Wellington especially when they have told people that the votes are being sent to them in replied paid envelopes to cut costs. Doesn't make sense. I then asked about the barcodes on the voting forms and she confirmed that each form is identifiable. So I said, can I call Computershare after the voting is counted and ask them to verify that my vote was actually counted. She said yes you should be able to get that information and it sounds like a good idea.
Perhaps everyone who is postal voting might like to do this, or even get on the phone now to Comptershare and query this voting procedure. Probably the same one they use in Zimbabwe.

simgrund · 27 August 2008

Re: PIF vote

Burnt said:
Hi all, very concerned at the confusion being generated by WC over voting procedures. Is this intentional or are they as stupid as they appear to be ???
Tip 1. If your unit holding is in the name of a company I suggest you download the ""Certificate of Appointment of Corporate Representative" form from Computershare. Go to www.computershare.com.au then log into Investor Centre. Then at the left of the screen under "Manage" click on downloadable forms. Go down to corporate forms and you will see it there. Had to phone Computershare to work it out (more on that phone call next). If you want to attend the meeting on Sept.18 you must have one of these forms filled out and I would also suggest attaching it to your voting form just to be sure that your vote is considered valid.
By the way, my suggestion is VOTE NO, NO, NO.

URGENT Hello Burnt,
Thanks for this, it may be affecting me. I am in Sydney not attending
My holding is in Super Co; does this mean I must attach this form to YELLOW one which states my super co title and not private name. Some confusion, as you said this form is to be brought to the meeting if registering there. Is this correct?
Who would you suggest may act as another proxy "at arms length" from Chairperson? Can this info be posted???

Regards

Dexter · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My brother rang WC yesterday asking assistance with the voting form. He was told to "just sign the bottom of the form and we will look after it for you".

Who is really counting the votes?

Maverick2802 · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some simple mathematics why I feel WC will get an overwhelming yes vote.

The average investor has 70,000 units. If they liquidate at $0.14 they get $9,800.

If they hold for 2009 they get $4,200 at around $0.06 per unit (taxfree) and any special distribution payment from the support facility. They could also sell 10,000 units in the buyback and get $4,500. Plus they still have 60,000 units to maybe pick up $3,600 a year and see what happens to capital in 3 to 5 years.

AND they will get $2100 before Christmas that will come in very handy to many after a lean year.

Burnt · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:
VOTE - 1) NO 2) YES 3) NO
We as unitholders have the power, the ability and the right to hold our own meeting to vote on resolutions that will benefit us and noone else. E.G. a vote on an amendment to the constitution to extend the freeze on redemptions for a further 180 days to give us time to have a completely independant administrator appointed to run the PIF. An administrator will be able run the fund profitably while projects are completed and outstanding loans dealt with in the most favourable manner. A completely independant administrator will charge fees which will be comparable to what the RE is obtaining and we will be able to have complete trust in them acting in OUR BEST INTERESTS !!!! Unitholders will not recover 100%, but only an independant manager will get them back the best amount recoverable.
I know there are some wealthy unitholders out there who can afford to tie up their capital indefinately (and even write it off), who are placing trust in Wellington to deliver on the 6% returns (good luck - no committment by Wellington there) and who plan on recouping some of their capital loss by buying up units on the NSX at 10c to 20c hoping to get a 30% - 60% return (good luck). I don't know if any of you attended the meetings in July and saw the huge number of elderley investors at risk of losing everything - their entire life savings. The looks on their faces - scared, confused and hoping that JH will look after them ! If not, try and recall the last news story where an elderley person was bashed and robbed - remember that look on their face ? Remember it when you go to bed and try to sleep.
Come on guys, have a heart. Don't encourage unitholders to vote for something that is going to lock them in and give them back bugger all !!!! Have some humanity, this might be the chance (or another one) to do something worthwhile to help others less fortunate than you.

Hi Like2ski,
good to hear from you. The Qld PIF Action Group is holding a meeting this weekend. I think that some unitholders have sought professional advice and I am hoping that we will be able to utilise the media to enable all unitholders to be informed of their rights and to be made aware of misleading info given to them by WC. Everyone needs all information at hand in order to make a wise decision. Stay posted !!!!!

Burnt · 27 August 2008

Re: PIF vote

simgrund said:
URGENT Hello Burnt,
Thanks for this, it may be affecting me. I am in Sydney not attending
My holding is in Super Co; does this mean I must attach this form to YELLOW one which states my super co title and not private name. Some confusion, as you said this form is to be brought to the meeting if registering there. Is this correct?
Who would you suggest may act as another proxy "at arms length" from Chairperson? Can this info be posted???

Regards

Hi Simgrund,
On the yellow form under the heading "Signing Instructions" you will find the info you need regarding who can sign the voting form on behalf of a company. WC states that if you are going to attend the meeting then you need to provide the "Certificate of Appointment of Corporate Representative" form to be admitted.
If voting by mail, the appropriate Directors and Secretary must sign the voting form. The Certificate of Appointment form does not need to be attached. I am just doing this because I intend to vote at the meeting.
If you do not want to vote by mail you can appoint anyone who is able to attend the meeting to be your proxy. In this case you will need to fill out the Proxy Form and the Certificate of Appointment form with their name on it. Both forms need to be signed according to the Signing Instructions. Fill out the Voting Form completely yourself.

Burnt · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter said:
My brother rang WC yesterday asking assistance with the voting form. He was told to "just sign the bottom of the form and we will look after it for you".

Who is really counting the votes?

Hi Dexter,
Please tell your brother to seek assistance from someone else, if they cant help go to another person. Tell him not to trust WC to look after anything for him !!

Rance · 27 August 2008

Re: PIF vote

Burnt said:
Hi Simgrund,
On the yellow form under the heading "Signing Instructions" you will find the info you need regarding who can sign the voting form on behalf of a company. WC states that if you are going to attend the meeting then you need to provide the "Certificate of Appointment of Corporate Representative" form to be admitted.
If voting by mail, the appropriate Directors and Secretary must sign the voting form. The Certificate of Appointment form does not need to be attached. I am just doing this because I intend to vote at the meeting.
If you do not want to vote by mail you can appoint anyone who is able to attend the meeting to be your proxy. In this case you will need to fill out the Proxy Form and the Certificate of Appointment form with their name on it. Both forms need to be signed according to the Signing Instructions. Fill out the Voting Form completely yourself.

Thank you Burnt for explaining the voting procedure. A word about the bar code:
As I see it, Compushare's counting of the postal votes will most likely be done by computer. The voting forms will go through a reading machine and the program will match the bar code with the appropriate registry computer record of unit holders. The program will then allocate the number of unit votes against the YES or NO or ABSTAIN selection for each of the three resolutions, eg:

XXXX Superannuation Fund holds 692,000 units and votes (1)YES (2)ABSTAIN (3) NO. The program will allocate 692,000 votes to each of the resolutions accordingly and the results will be processed quickly and accurately. Late votes and proxies received at the meeting will be added to the totals to produce the final results.

That's the way most voting of this type is processed these days. I doubt that people will be employed to look up registry records and process the count using hand calculators; we could be waiting for weeks for the results. That's probably why the postal votes are required by Sept 16. When processed, a reasonably accurate idea of the final vote should be known before the Sept 18 meeting starts, unless a gi-mountainous number of votes are received at the meeting.

I base this assumption on my work as a former IT professional when I developed similar systems to perform the function just described. I may be wrong, in which case I stand corrected. Hope this posting has been helpful.

Rance

selciper · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If voting papers are opened on WC premises we must be certain that this occurs under the scrutiny of independent observers. Observers should be OKd by the AG.

Burnt · 27 August 2008

ReIF Vote

Hi Rance,
Thanks for your info regarding the vote counting process. I'm pretty sure Computershare will have "readers" at the meeting to count the votes submitted there to be added to the total vote count. I have total faith in their methods. My concern is with whether or not ALL VOTES will be passed onto them. Who determines which voting papers are invalid because they are not filled out correctly ?? Who monitors the mail coming into Wellington's office ???? Who counts the number of voting papers recieved by Wellington as compared to the number of voting papers received by Computershare ?????

Burnt · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

On a different subject, I have been doing some research to try to find out
WHO OWNS WELLINGTON CAPITAL LIMITED ? I have found out the company has 5,000,000 fully paid $1 shares, but shareholder info was not available.
Does anyone know who the shareholders are ?
Can't help thinking CS is determined to recoup his losses from wherever or whoever.
By the way Like2ski, do you also like polo ??

DoraNBoots · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dexter said:
My brother rang WC yesterday asking assistance with the voting form. He was told to "just sign the bottom of the form and we will look after it for you".

Who is really counting the votes?

OMG!! I can't believe it! It's bad enough they are getting and opening the proxy forms but to tell people to leave them blank that's disgusting!

I was in the middle of an ASIC complaint when I read this post so have added this little gem to my complaint.

Thanks Burnt for all your info! I'm back and all fired up again. I sent a letter to JH this morning and CCed ASIC asking her to explain the information she gave me on Friday - most of which I consider to have been flawed. She's out of the office till Monday so again I wait.

No No No

like2ski · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Burnt said:
On a different subject, I have been doing some research to try to find out
WHO OWNS WELLINGTON CAPITAL LIMITED ? I have found out the company has 5,000,000 fully paid $1 shares, but shareholder info was not available.
Does anyone know who the shareholders are ?
Can't help thinking CS is determined to recoup his losses from wherever or whoever.
By the way Like2ski, do you also like polo ??

Hi Burnt,
Again I entirely agree with your insightful thinking, it would certainly be interesting to ascertain who the shareholders are?? Shouldn't it be public knowledge and a legal requirement? perhaps we can clarify with ASIC.
No I am not into polo but what prompted the question? I fail to see any connection and by the way I like your nick as well we certainly did get burnt???
Regards
like2ski

Mutchy · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello All.
Here are some answers to questions asked today of WC.

Q. What happens to units bought back? Are they available for purchase on NSX or cancelled? Clause 4.2 has been deleted from the constitution It dealt with cancellation of the units upon redemption.
A.They will be Cancelled.

Q. Future buy - back schemes possible under revised constitution? Are future buy -back schemes envisaged? Need a vote by unit holders? What percentage?
A. No

Q.Will there be future fund raising?
A. Yes probably.

Q. Will redemption be available greater than 10,000 units ie $4,500 for severe hardship?
A. No

I think the Constitution has many errors, three contradictory clauses, and clauses in the supplementary deed poll which are clearly wrong. There are no clauses covering the role, responsibilities and reporting of the Investors Advisory Committee. The clauses concerning redemptions have been deleted yet it is intended to operate a buy back scheme without constitutional rules on redemption.
I have sent my comments direct to WC as I think the Proposed Constitution is seriously flawed. I think it does not allow the operation of either the "buy back" redemption scheme or the Investor Advisor Committee.

I will post my comments on the proposed constitution on the Yahoo Group.

Mutchy

like2ski · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
OMG!! I can't believe it! It's bad enough they are getting and opening the proxy forms but to tell people to leave them blank that's disgusting!

I was in the middle of an ASIC complaint when I read this post so have added this little gem to my complaint.

Thanks Burnt for all your info! I'm back and all fired up again. I sent a letter to JH this morning and CCed ASIC asking her to explain the information she gave me on Friday - most of which I consider to have been flawed. She's out of the office till Monday so again I wait.

No No No

Hi DoraNBoots,
With regards to your ASIC complaint. I was thinking of doing the same or are we duplicating, can we add more people to the same one (Class Complaint???)
Have they received many, do you know??
Thanks

like2ski · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mutchy said:
Hello All.
Here are some answers to questions asked today of WC.

Q. What happens to units bought back? Are they available for purchase on NSX or cancelled? Clause 4.2 has been deleted from the constitution It dealt with cancellation of the units upon redemption.
A.They will be Cancelled.

Q. Future buy - back schemes possible under revised constitution? Are future buy -back schemes envisaged? Need a vote by unit holders? What percentage?
A. No

Q.Will there be future fund raising?
A. Yes probably.

Q. Will redemption be available greater than 10,000 units ie $4,500 for severe hardship?
A. No

I think the Constitution has many errors, three contradictory clauses, and clauses in the supplementary deed poll which are clearly wrong. There are no clauses covering the role, responsibilities and reporting of the Investors Advisory Committee. The clauses concerning redemptions have been deleted yet it is intended to operate a buy back scheme without constitutional rules on redemption.
I have sent my comments direct to WC as I think the Proposed Constitution is seriously flawed. I think it does not allow the operation of either the "buy back" redemption scheme or the Investor Advisor Committee.

I will post my comments on the proposed constitution on the Yahoo Group.

Mutchy

Hi Mutchy,
Good work !! I agree the constitution is seriously flawed and we need to voice our opinions strongly and in numbers.
Can you give me some details about the Yahoo Group? this is the first I heard of it.
Thank you
like2ski

Jadel · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mutchy said:
Hello All.
Here are some answers to questions asked today of WC.

Q. What happens to units bought back? Are they available for purchase on NSX or cancelled? Clause 4.2 has been deleted from the constitution It dealt with cancellation of the units upon redemption.
A.They will be Cancelled.

Q. Future buy - back schemes possible under revised constitution? Are future buy -back schemes envisaged? Need a vote by unit holders? What percentage?
A. No

Q.Will there be future fund raising?
A. Yes probably.

Q. Will redemption be available greater than 10,000 units ie $4,500 for severe hardship?
A. No

I think the Constitution has many errors, three contradictory clauses, and clauses in the supplementary deed poll which are clearly wrong. There are no clauses covering the role, responsibilities and reporting of the Investors Advisory Committee. The clauses concerning redemptions have been deleted yet it is intended to operate a buy back scheme without constitutional rules on redemption.
I have sent my comments direct to WC as I think the Proposed Constitution is seriously flawed. I think it does not allow the operation of either the "buy back" redemption scheme or the Investor Advisor Committee.

I will post my comments on the proposed constitution on the Yahoo Group.

Mutchy

Thank you Mutchy

The response to Q3 has just put shivers up my spine.

DoraNBoots · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mutchy said:
...
Q. Future buy - back schemes possible under revised constitution? Are future buy -back schemes envisaged? Need a vote by unit holders? What percentage?
A. No
...
Mutchy

Thanks for all your work Mutchy!

Just thought I'd mention that JH said last Friday that she was hoping to have more buy backs each year. I didn't bother posting this because if I can't verify something myself or if she won't write it on paper it don't mean anything. Interesting to note tho that her staff say the opposite.

Like2ski said:
...
Hi DoraNBoots,
With regards to your ASIC complaint. I was thinking of doing the same or are we duplicating, can we add more people to the same one (Class Complaint???)
Have they received many, do you know??
Thanks

Hi Like2ski,
I really don't know what is best. The complaints I previously wrote were put in by another unit holder. Tonight I just put in another one via the web and marked it Urgent. I think the more under different numbers the better so that ASIC start to realise there are a lot of concerned people as apposed to a few nutters

The url for the Yahoo group is here:http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/PIFActionGroup You'll even find a poll there regarding resolution 1.

gazzan57 · 27 August 2008

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

like2ski said:
Hi Mutchy,
Good work !! I agree the constitution is seriously flawed and we need to voice our opinions strongly and in numbers.
Can you give me some details about the Yahoo Group? this is the first I heard of it.
Thank you
like2ski

Hi Mutchy ...where do we find your yahoo group please?

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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