Useless Labor Party

[SirRumpole]

So what is the success criteria for the China FTA ? A boost for farmers, traditionally LNP supporters, or an overall improvement in our terms of trade with China ?

If it's the former then it's a political deal, if it's the latter then it's fine if it happens but judging by our US FTA in which our trade deficit with the US has doubled then I doubt it will be to our overall economic advantage.

 

[noco]

So what is the success criteria for the China FTA ? A boost for farmers, traditionally LNP supporters, or an overall improvement in our terms of trade with China ?

If it's the former then it's a political deal, if it's the latter then it's fine if it happens but judging by our US FTA in which our trade deficit with the US has doubled then I doubt it will be to our overall economic advantage.

Being the learned person you are purported to be, I thought you would have been well versed on the subject and would have done your research before commenting.

The question I asked is why is the LUG party so adversed to the CHAFTA and why are they telling such lies about it? ....You do not seem willing to give an answer.

 

[SirRumpole]

Being the learned person you are purported to be, I thought you would have been well versed on the subject and would have done your research before commenting.

The question I asked is why is the LUG party so adversed to the CHAFTA and why are they telling such lies about it? ....You do not seem willing to give an answer.

So being the learned person you purport to be you tell me if this deal is supposed to improve our balance of trade with China.

As for the Labor Party's view on it , it seems to be more the unions than the political wing of the ALP that is complaining. They have a right to be concerned about jobs and to take those views public.

 

[noco]

So being the learned person you purport to be you tell me if this deal is supposed to improve our balance of trade with China.

As for the Labor Party's view on it , it seems to be more the unions than the political wing of the ALP that is complaining. They have a right to be concerned about jobs and to take those views public.

Yes, it has been designed improve the bottom line and I think you and your comrades should be patience to see the results...If it doesn't improve the bottom line, I will be the first to pass judgement.

I note you are blaming the unions for their vendetta on the CHAFTA but don't the unions control the Green/Labor left wing socialist coalition.......The LUG party.....they are all tarred with the Fabian brush.

I would dearly love to see Barnacle Bill stand up to the unions and tell them to butt out....... but we all know how weak he is with the unions...he dare not step out of line because he is a weak leader.

 

[noco]

So being the learned person you purport to be you tell me if this deal is supposed to improve our balance of trade with China.

As for the Labor Party's view on it , it seems to be more the unions than the political wing of the ALP that is complaining. They have a right to be concerned about jobs and to take those views public.

If Bob Hawke, Bob Carr and Simon Crean are urging the LUG Party to accept the CHAFTA it must be good.


http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...tells_bill_shortens_labor_to_back_china_deal/



It is frightening to see Labor now siding with a xenophobic union campaign against a trade deal that will create jobs and wealth. Bill Shorten’s Labor is a sick joke when compared to Bob Hawke’s:

Bob Hawke has issued a stern warning to the Labor Party and the trade union movement not to *oppose the China-Australia Free-Trade Agreement, arguing it is in the national interest that it be adopted.

“I am all in favour of it,” Mr Hawke told The Australian. “The party must not go backwards on this issue — the party and the trade union movement. Talk of opposing it is just absolutely against Australia’s best interests.”

Mr Hawke, a former Labor prime minister and ACTU president, is at odds with the party, which has refused to support the agreement without substantial changes.

The ACTU is mounting a *ferocious campaign against the trade deal and has called for it to be dumped. Bill Shorten has *described it as “a mess” and a “bad agreement"…

The China, Japan and South Korea free-trade agreements are worth a combined $24.4 billion to Australia and will create nearly 8000 new jobs.

 

[banco]

Being the learned person you are purported to be, I thought you would have been well versed on the subject and would have done your research before commenting.

The question I asked is why is the LUG party so adversed to the CHAFTA and why are they telling such lies about it? ....You do not seem willing to give an answer.

I've read the text and can't see where the lies are. Yes there'll be labour market testing but everyone knows that is easily gamed (that's why we've got tonnes of 457 visa IT workers at the same time as we've got heaps of IT workers who are unemployed).

 

[Tisme]

I was listening to Andrew Robb on radio broadcasting his hate for unions and the Labor party from China, yesterday. In an obvious act of arrogance towards his hosts, he was at pains to explain how the Chinese could not understand why there was domestic opposition to the terms of the agreement..... does he think the Chinese are so stupid not to understand what's going on?

It's that superiority waft that follows the Libs which got us into trouble with the Indonesians, Russians, etc.

 

[SirRumpole]

I was listening to Andrew Robb on radio broadcasting his hate for unions and the Labor party from China, yesterday. In an obvious act of arrogance towards his hosts, he was at pains to explain how the Chinese could not understand why there was domestic opposition to the terms of the agreement..... does he think the Chinese are so stupid not to understand what's going on?

It's that superiority waft that follows the Libs which got us into trouble with the Indonesians, Russians, etc.

If the Chinese are excited about the FTA, that obviously means they think it will be good for them. In bilateral FTA's, what is good for one side is not necessarily good for the other side.

Greater access to markets does not necessarily mean more sales. Subsidies given by large economies like China and the US can reduce our ability to compete in those markets.

Perhaps the expert noco can tell us what restrictions there are on China not to subsidise it's industries/farmers that compete with our products ?

 

[SirRumpole]

I'll save noco the trouble of doing some research and engaging in a potentially red-faced (for him) discussion.

Chinese iron ore subsidies raise doubts about free trade agreement

Federal Labor has challenged the Abbott government to clarify the terms of Australia's free trade agreement with China, after the survival prospects of Australian iron ore miners were further imperiled by China's decision to cut the tax rate imposed on its own iron ore miners.

Speaking after the Chinese State Council revealed it would reduce taxes on miners by 40 per cent, shadow foreign affairs minister Tanya Plibersek urged the government to publish the terms of the trade agreement that was struck four months ago.


"The Abbott government needs to explain what it is doing to ensure Australian businesses have genuinely fair access to the Chinese market," she said.

Agreed in November, the free trade agreement is not expected to come into effect until later this year, with the Australian and Chinese governments yet to complete all the necessary paper work on the deal.
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"Labor renews its call for the Abbott government to release the text of the FTA so Australian industry and the broader community can assess whether it delivers promised benefits," said Ms Plibersek.

Trade Minister Andrew Robb declined to comment.

There was debate on Thursday as to how much the new subsidy would help Chinese iron ore miners, with some estimating it to save them $A1.27 per tonne, while Tim Murray from China-based research firm J-Capital said it would be closer to $US4 per tonne.

But with iron ore prices now below $US50 per tonne, any support to Chinese miners will make it harder for Australian miners to survive.

Indeed, the subsidy comes just days after the Western Australian government started offering royalty relief to mid-tier miners like BC Iron, and just months after foreign miners accused the Reserve Bank of Australia of trying to save local miners by cutting interest rates and devaluing the local currency.

Mr Murray said the tax subsidy effectively reduced the cost of iron ore for China's state-owned steel mills, and so did not necessarily cost the Chinese government anything in the long run.

"It probably gives a net break even for the Chinese government from providing these subsidies, so you can see it is a sensible policy move from a centrally controlled economy point of view," he said.

Mr Murray said the subsidy would allow many private iron ore miners in China stay open, and could be an indication the Chinese government will increase support to its domestic miners.

"This could be a signal they will give increasing support to the mining sector in general in China in the face of low commodity prices. We have seen similar actions taken in the coal sector over the past two years as prices have fallen and domestic coal mines have been making losses, we are seeing the same happening now for domestic iron ore mines," he said.

"There is speculation there is further assistance coming their way.

"I have met with probably 20 Chinese domestic iron ore mines over the past six months, and every [state-owned] mine, with one exception, was either maintaining or increasing their output over the next 12 months."

China's move echoes a prediction by former BHP Billiton executive, and now Orica boss Alberto Calderon, who forecast last year that low iron ore prices would force Australian miners rather than Chinese miners out of business.

BHP and Rio Tinto are the only Australian miners making a clear profit at current prices.

BC Iron managing director Morgan Ball said his company broke even in the March quarter and he was not particularly concerned by the Chinese subsidy.

"The reading I have done and the commentary I have seen suggests that it won't actually make a significant difference as far as the viability of the Chinese domestic operations is concerned, it is a relatively small assistance to them," said Mr Ball.

"Our government has done a similar thing hasn't it with royalty relief for BC Iron so it is part of capital markets ... maybe it will help domestic producers on the margins, but if economic rationalism applies it won't make a big difference to those mines that are currently under water, but that is a big 'if' of course."

For comparison, BC Iron reduced its cost of producing iron ore, excluding freight and corporate costs, in the March quarter by $5 per tonne compared to the March quarter of 2014.

The company expects to lower that cost of production again in coming months, and Mr Ball said BC Iron was almost certainly in the black during the March quarter.

"Subject to finalising our quarterly accounts we are anticipating that we were operationally cash flow positive for the quarter," he said.

BC Iron will publish its full quarterly results later this month.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/mini...-agreement-20150409-1mhh5m.html#ixzz3k9Si7nPQ

 

[noco]

I've read the text and can't see where the lies are. Yes there'll be labour market testing but everyone knows that is easily gamed (that's why we've got tonnes of 457 visa IT workers at the same time as we've got heaps of IT workers who are unemployed).

But the bl**dy unions had no hesitation in bring in 41 union staff on 457 visas...Do you mean to tell me they could not find someone in Australia to fill those jobs......No hesitation here of robbing Aissie workers of employment.....But I guess it is OK for the unions to break protocol but nobody should.....

What a mob of hypocrites.

 

[noco]

I was listening to Andrew Robb on radio broadcasting his hate for unions and the Labor party from China, yesterday. In an obvious act of arrogance towards his hosts, he was at pains to explain how the Chinese could not understand why there was domestic opposition to the terms of the agreement..... does he think the Chinese are so stupid not to understand what's going on?

It's that superiority waft that follows the Libs which got us into trouble with the Indonesians, Russians, etc.

Um, I think the LUG Party got us into trouble with Indonesia when they suddenly stopped live meat exports....Do you remember Labor senator Ludwig made the decision on some left wing media report from the biased ABC or have you forgotten?

I think you will find the ban on exports to Russia was either a UN or Nato decision because of their aggression in their neighboring country......The exports to Russia were only worth about $1.5 million per year....No big loss there.

 

[noco]

I'll save noco the trouble of doing some research and engaging in a potentially red-faced (for him) discussion.

Chinese iron ore subsidies raise doubts about free trade agreement

Well, that is typical NIT PICKING by the LUG party just to make them look like they are holding the Government to account.....purely political point scoring by the well know Fabian Tanya Pleberzeck who is rapped up in her own importance...This a woman who cannot look some one in the eye when speaking.....Most of the time she speaks either with her eyes closed or blinking....

That statement is purely cherry picking on perhaps some minor trivial points but the overall picture is disregarded by the LUG party....What we lose on the Merry-go-rounds we will pick up on the Hurdie- Gurdies.......This is what FTA agreements are all about......One has to give and take a little and that is something the LUG Party do not know.

 

[SirRumpole]

Well, that is typical NIT PICKING by the LUG party just to make them look like they are holding the Government to account.....purely political point scoring by the well know Fabian Tanya Pleberzeck who rapped up in her own importance...This a woman who cannot look some on in the eye when speaking.....Most of the time she speaks were her eyes close.

That statement is purely cherry picking on perhaps some minor trivial points but the overall picture is disregarded by the LUG party....What we lose on the Merry-go-rounds we will pick up on the Hurdie- Gurdies.......This is what FTA agreements are all about......One has to give and take a little and that is something the LUG Party do not know.

If you believe that I'm glad you are not running the country.

China can subsidise it's own industries whenever they like and price us out of the market.

They get less tariffs on their exports to us and we get sod all.

Free trade MFA.

 

[noco]

If you believe that I'm glad you are not running the country.

China can subsidise it's own industries whenever they like and price us out of the market.

They get less tariffs on their exports to us and we get sod all.

Free trade MFA.

There you go again...Cherry picking on on iron ore and you turn into generalization....This is typical of your comrades in the LUG party.

I am pleased you and the LUG party are not running the country again after the disastrous 6 years 200/2013 under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd....They changed their leaders as often as Shorten changed his underpants.

In 6 years they almost sent us down the gurgler and we are still paying a hefty price to keep up with Labor's under funded schemes like the NDIS and the NBN.

 

[SirRumpole]

There you go again...Cherry picking on on iron ore and you turn into generalization....This is typical of your comrades in the LUG party.

I am pleased you and the LUG party are not running the country again after the disastrous 6 years 200/2013 under Rudd/Gillard/Rudd....They changed their leaders as often as Shorten changed his underpants.

In 6 years they almost sent us down the gurgler and we are still paying a hefty price to keep up with Labor's under funded schemes like the NDIS and the NBN.

:topic


...

 

[sydboy007]

Well, that is typical NIT PICKING by the LUG party just to make them look like they are holding the Government to account.....purely political point scoring by the well know Fabian Tanya Pleberzeck who is rapped up in her own importance...This a woman who cannot look some one in the eye when speaking.....Most of the time she speaks either with her eyes closed or blinking....

That statement is purely cherry picking on perhaps some minor trivial points but the overall picture is disregarded by the LUG party....What we lose on the Merry-go-rounds we will pick up on the Hurdie- Gurdies.......This is what FTA agreements are all about......One has to give and take a little and that is something the LUG Party do not know.

The Chinese subsidize aluminium production, concrete, petrol. The new rules on coal imports have helped to protect local production. Ship building receives large licks of govt support. COMAC has received billions in support to produce an outdated small jet, with all sales pretty much being through forced / highly subsidised purchases by Chinese airlines.

The lack of rule of law in China is also a worry. Too many Australians languish in Chinese prisons because locals found that an easier way to steal a business than buy them out at a fair price. IP theft is still rampant, and the Chinese Govt generally only tries to protect the local Champions rather than foreign company IP.

When I see made in china on a consumable product I put it back on the shelf. If they don't care about poisoning each other, then they definitely wont care about poisoning a foreigner.

Why does the CHAFTA even have the ability to allow the importation of 457 visa workers without confirming there are no locals able to fulfill the requirements? If as the Govt says this will not occur, why allow the possibility?

Many sectors in China will still be off limits to Australian investors. Even before the CHAFTA the Chinese have had far greater access to invest here than Australians will get after it's signed.

 

[noco]

Chris Kenny sums up the LUG Party in one......They are not friends of the working men and women in Australia.....They are more intent in destroying jobs.



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...s-of-the-workers/story-fn8qlm5e-1227503341967

Proudly looking over his village, goes the old joke, a man boasts of how he built every picket fence, laid every paver and painted every roof. Yet he is not known as the village fencer, village paver or even the painter — no, his nickname stems from a single episode with a pig. (Bet you thought the ABC had forever scared me away from this territory.)

The point is a powerful one about how a single misstep can overshadow all of our achievements.

So it is with former trade minister Craig Emerson, who is remembered for his performance of “Whyalla wipe-out”. His bizarre *reworking of the Skyhooks hit Horror Movie was an attempt to mock concerns that Labor’s carbon tax would wipe the industrial town of Whyalla “off the map”.

The phrase had been used by Tony Abbott, but the then opposition leader was echoing the words of the Australian Workers Union South Australian boss Wayne Hanson. “Goodbye,” the unionist told Adelaide’s The Advertiser, “they (Port Pirie and Whyalla) will be off the map.”

So, in a Parliament House courtyard, Emerson stood in front of an ABC camera, danced awkwardly to the music and sang, “No Whyalla wipe-out there on my TV, no Whyalla wipe-out there on my TV, shocking me right out of my brain.” It was, indeed, shocking. The media zeitgeist, as usual, joined with Labor in laughing at Abbott’s warning.

After all, this was the day the carbon tax was first imposed and Whyalla was still there, so Abbott must have been a scaremonger or an idiot, or both.

At the time, Emerson’s mockery seemed — at least to me — to be a strange thing for any politician, let alone a Labor one, to do.

Here was a federal MP scoffing at a threat to the livelihoods of working families in regional centres. Here was a privileged member of the Left’s political class joking about the very real threat that people with calloused hands would lose their jobs. Here was Labor dancing to the fashionable, Twitter-driven sensibilities of the Greens at the expense of the ALP’s core constituency.

Whyalla has a relatively short, troubled but proud history as a steel town — a working town, a union town and a Labor town. Along with Port Pirie and Port Augusta it forms the Iron Triangle at the top of Spencer Gulf. Three small towns on the edge of the desert, clinging to the coast and a fragile existence in heavy industries such as smelting, engineering and coal-fired electricity generation. Remember, it was the AWU that worried about them being wiped off the map and about the same time the AWU’s national boss, Paul Howes, warned he would oppose the carbon tax if it cost just one job.

During the past few years we have seen thousands of jobs shed in mining, manufacturing, smelting, aluminium and processing plants. A range of factors including global conditions, currency fluctuations and increased power prices because of the carbon tax and other carbon emissions policies have been at play.

The two coal-fired power stations operated at Port Augusta by Alinta will now close by 2018 — along with the mine at Leigh Creek that supplies them — leaving 400 people without work. They once supplied most of the state’s electricity but, having survived the carbon tax, are no longer viable thanks to subsidised wind farms, domestic solar and gas-fired stations.

This is how climate policy is supposed to work but there is a very direct cost: higher prices and fewer jobs.

Just down the road at Port Pirie jobs have dwindled through the years and uncertainty has surrounded the smelter that pro*cesses ore from Broken Hill. It has taken state government intervention to underwrite a $291 million smelter redevelopment to secure the future of Nyrstar’s operation.

At Whyalla, with iron ore miner Arrium closing a mine that used the port, up to 900 jobs have gone during the past year. “We absolutely fight every day for our survival,” a stoic Whyalla mayor, Jim Pollock, told Inquirer last week. “We have certainly made headlines for all the wrong reasons and every day is a challenge.”

The Iron Triangle also has been hit hard by the cancelled expansion and subsequent job cuts at the Olympic Dam mine and processing plant to the north.

“No doubt the reimposition of a carbon price would be a threat, we will have to monitor that,” Pollock says. “But we are always looking for opportunities, and we hope that many of our heavy engineering firms can do well out of the shipbuilding and submarine contracts in Adelaide. We are always fighting for our survival and betterment; we would never run up the white flag.”

So Whyalla has not been wiped out … yet. The crucial point is this: while the people of the Iron *Triangle — and those in working towns and suburbs across the country — continue this struggle for a good livelihood, Labor is still singing for the cameras in Canberra. Instead of helping to pass measures to fix the budget, it launches hypocritical attacks over MPs’ entitlements. Instead of vowing to protect workers by stamping out union corruption, it protects union bosses and undermines an inquiry by smearing the royal commissioner.

Instead of fighting for jobs, it fights against coalmines. Instead of encouraging economic growth, it stokes xenophobic fears about Chinese workers exploiting a free trade deal. Labor under Bill Shorten is dancing to the tune of the Greens, and turning its back on economic reform and people in places such as Whyalla. Under Shorten, Labor is promising more renewable energy and a reimposed carbon price — which will lead to more job *losses.

Emerson played a constructive role trying to forge consensus for action at this week’s National Reform Summit. It might have been his strongest contribution since working for Bob Hawke in the 1980s. But for all the Coalition’s missteps and failed advocacy (including Joe Hockey’s silly republic distraction on the day of the summit) it is Emerson’s ALP colleagues in parliament who have been the biggest handbrake on *reform.

Their instinct is to oppose fiscal repair and structural reform of education, health and welfare. The consequences of this reform denial will be substantial and will inflict the greatest pain on mainstream workers. Emerson’s “Whyalla wipe-out” still has a horrible resonance; Labor should never mock or *ignore the legitimate fears of working families.

 

[dutchie]

Shorten on CHAFTA:

We are against foreigners taking Australian jobs - the Government should do something.


Shorten on Victorian Police/Border Force operation:

We are against Australian Agencies checking on illegal foreigners working in Australia - the Government should do nothing.

 

[sydboy007]

Shorten on CHAFTA:

We are against foreigners taking Australian jobs - the Government should do something.


Shorten on Victorian Police/Border Force operation:

We are against Australian Agencies checking on illegal foreigners working in Australia - the Government should do nothing.

Ah, Abbott has said said the Border Force press release got it all wrong, so if Shorten is wrong on that issue then so is Abbott?

Can you explain to me why the Govt has provided the option to allow Chinese SOE to buy up or into businesses in Australia and then bring in workers on 457 visas without proving that there are no locals available to do the work. the Govt says this will not occur, but if it's not going to happen why is the option there?

Just a 15% stake is all that's required to give the possibility of flooding workers into Australia, with them showing their Chinese certification as being proof they're up to standard.

 

[sptrawler]

Shorten on CHAFTA:

We are against foreigners taking Australian jobs - the Government should do something.


Shorten on Victorian Police/Border Force operation:

We are against Australian Agencies checking on illegal foreigners working in Australia - the Government should do nothing.

Yes Dutchie, that's what I find amusing.

Shorten doesn't know what he stands for.