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Tink said:
Daniel Andrews has opened a Royal Commission on Domestic Violence in Victoria.

PREMIER Daniel Andrews has vowed to jail family violence thugs, make intervention orders easier to get and enforce tough new laws to make women and children safe.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-family-violence/story-fni0fit3-1227236220664

Supposedly it was run on the ABC as well, on Q and A.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...omestic-violence/story-fni0xqrb-1227236263041

Alcohol was mentioned as a problem, I saw in one of her statements, that Rosie wants the prices of alcohol to be lifted.

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or open a new thread on Domestic Violence.
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You could start by calling for an overhaul of how alcohol is taxed. The first 1.15% of alcohol in beer is free of excise. The WET on wine is based on the value of the wine, so cheap goon that likely fuels a lot of domestic violence is excessively cheap.

It's ludicrous a 4.4L Berri wine cask can cost $10. Wine and beer are too lightly taxed based on their alcohol content, but the brewing and winery industries are big contributors to the major parties which has paid off handsomely for them with the inertia on this issue.

If an RC into domestic violence can highlight this issue and apply pressure to the major parties for reform, then I'd say it's not a useless Labor party effort but something that should be commended.

The below graph gives you an idea of how screwed up our alcohol taxing is. The green bar is the current system, the dark bar is taxing based on alcohol content

alc tax.PNG
 
With due respect to Rosie Batty, if she or anyone else thinks taxing alcohol more heavily is going to solve DV they are very naive indeed.
 
Julia said:
With due respect to Rosie Batty, if she or anyone else thinks taxing alcohol more heavily is going to solve DV they are very naive indeed.
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In fact it would probably make it worse.
I'm not a sociologist but I have a hunch that increased alcohol cost will generate increased anger that the perpetrators of DV will be driven to unleash on their usual victims.
 
Tink said:
This is how Labor creates employment.

Victoria, the public holiday state.

By the time Labor are finished with our state, it will be one long public holiday.

We now have the most in the country.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...240658985?sv=9a6e27d12d3d36ce84773541acb96d6f
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It's absurd Tink, I'm yet to speak to one person that supports the idea and this includes footy fans. Once something like this is passed it will be very difficult to remove due to the campaigning by the unions. It's another case of politicians buying votes and the electorate shouldn't be rewarding this type of leadership.
 
overhang said:
It's absurd Tink, I'm yet to speak to one person that supports the idea and this includes footy fans. Once something like this is passed it will be very difficult to remove due to the campaigning by the unions. It's another case of politicians buying votes and the electorate shouldn't be rewarding this type of leadership.
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It will be just another cost to business by the unions....The unions have stuffed this country with their demands over the past 60 years...Is it any wonder our manufacturing industry has gone west.
 
noco said:
It will be just another cost to business by the unions....The unions have stuffed this country with their demands over the past 60 years...Is it any wonder our manufacturing industry has gone west.
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Oh, I suppose the AUD 30% above it's long term average against the USD had nothing to do with the death of manufacturing here.

Blame a decade of economic mismanagement with Howard spending the mining boom on tax bribes which led to the higest interest rates in ~15 years, the RBA deciding the mining boom had decades to run so would required a high AUD to suppress manufacturing and other sectors of the economy so as to allow the resource sector to expand, and then Labor for continuing on with the Howard tax bribes when there was no sound reason to do them.

Oh and then we Have Abbott allowing the car manufacturing industry to fold over $500M, less than twice his school chaplains policy, and we could be faced with importing cars from Korea at a higher cost to local manufacture when the dollar has bottomed out.

The reduced clout of unions in most advanced economies seems to have coincided with the death of the middle class.
 
Julia said:
With due respect to Rosie Batty, if she or anyone else thinks taxing alcohol more heavily is going to solve DV they are very naive indeed.
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You could say that, but until it's tried nobody knows.

Why not just try it and see what happens ?

Changes to pub closing hours in some areas in NSW has reduced drunken brawls, a measure which of course was opposed by people in the grog industry who said basically the same thing "it won't solve the problem". Unfortunately for them it at least reduced the problem.

Everytime a particular group sees a threat to their income of course they will complain, but if governments wants to solve problems then they need to have the guts to stand up to the special interest groups and try various alternatives.
 
SirRumpole said:
You could say that, but until it's tried nobody knows.

Why not just try it and see what happens ?

Changes to pub closing hours in some areas in NSW has reduced drunken brawls, a measure which of course was opposed by people in the grog industry who said basically the same thing "it won't solve the problem". Unfortunately for them it at least reduced the problem.

Everytime a particular group sees a threat to their income of course they will complain, but if governments wants to solve problems then they need to have the guts to stand up to the special interest groups and try various alternatives.
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Even if it doesn't reduce domestic violence, it would likely reduce the harm from excessive alcohol consumption.

Purely from a public health perspective it's worth doing.
 
SirRumpole said:
Everytime a particular group sees a threat to their income of course they will complain, but if governments wants to solve problems then they need to have the guts to stand up to the special interest groups and try various alternatives.
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How about this alternative?

- Everyone converts to Islam
- No more alcohol
- No more domestic violence :rolleyes:

View attachment 61773
 
SirRumpole said:
You could say that, but until it's tried nobody knows.

Why not just try it and see what happens ?
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Possibly because a quite large proportion of the population is on low incomes, including age pensioners, many of whom rather enjoy a glass of wine with their evening meal. Were there to be a higher tax on alcohol, that would remove that small pleasure from many people who budget to the limit to pay such as electricity bills.

I agree with the changes to the previously utterly ridiculous pub closing hours of 5am or whatever it was.
No one needs to be out drinking into the small hours.
But awful though the drunken brawls are/were, they represent an infinitesimal proportion of the population.

For some intelligent commentary on the causes of family violence, take the time to listen to this (or the transcript might be up by now)
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2015/s4188092.htm

It does away with the simplistic thinking that reducing alcohol consumption will solve the problem.

And, much as I admire the calm demeanour of Rosie Batty in the horrifying face of her son being killed, I can't see why we would place too much store on her opinions as to how to ameliorate domestic violence. She has by her own admission lived with it for many years, found no solution, was unable to distance herself sufficiently from the violence to prevent her child from being killed. I have never heard her say that her partner was necessarily affected by alcohol, or that it was an alcohol induced psychotic state that saw the child killed.
 
Julia said:
Possibly because a quite large proportion of the population is on low incomes, including age pensioners, many of whom rather enjoy a glass of wine with their evening meal. Were there to be a higher tax on alcohol, that would remove that small pleasure from many people who budget to the limit to pay such as electricity bills.

.
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Increased taxes on alcohol for those who drink small amounts would not hit the hip pocket as much as those who drink a lot, that is the purpose of discouraging excessive consumption.

It's seems a bit hypocritical to disparage people who complain about having to pay a co payment to see a doctor for the benefit of their health, while saying that there should not be increased taxes on a drug that is harmful in large doses.
 
Bintang, regarding your question about the Royal Commission, both parties were talking about Domestic Violence prior to the election, but Labor has gone one step further with this RC.
I will be the first to say that we are soft on crime, and that victims and law abiding citizens are not being heard etc.
Our justice system, parole, bail etc, all need to be reviewed. With CCTV now, they have no excuses.

We would all hope we could get answers across the board to do with violence, but I am also hoping it doesn't end up a male bashing exercise.
I think we all know stories from both sides.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29219&highlight=feminism

We all need to stand up against violence, be it men, or women, or children.
Children seem to be the pawns through it all.
Victoria had a couple of horrific cases that stood out -
Rosie Batty being one, losing her son.
The boys in the dam by their father, and the girl thrown over the bridge by her father.

They all left us heartbroken, that a parent could do that to their children.
It does not happen and it shouldn't happen, is pretty much what went through us all.

In Qld, we saw the mother that killed her eight children.

We also had Jill Meagher here, where Bailey had a long history of violence, but nothing was ever done until she was murdered.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25474&highlight=jill+meagher

It is such a cross view looking at all those cases, imo.

Regarding alcohol, Syd, that was Rosie's comment, and though I have been an advocate in the past, I do wonder if we have made it worse, where now we have the problem with drugs.
https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24523&page=10&highlight=alcohol

As I have said before, once upon a time it was all a negative, to be drunk or wiped out, now people are trying to push it as a positive.
I don't agree with it

Anyway, that is just my view.
 
SirRumpole said:
It's seems a bit hypocritical to disparage people who complain about having to pay a co payment to see a doctor for the benefit of their health, while saying that there should not be increased taxes on a drug that is harmful in large doses.
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The two situations are not comparable.
We all need Medicare. The Medicare levy is insufficient to fund the complete cost of Medicare with the remainder having to be drawn from taxation revenue etc. So a $7 co-payment capped at $70 p.a.
 for pensioners et al seems pretty reasonable. We already pay, largely without complaint, a part charge on prescriptions.

What is the actual basis for saying let's whack a tax on alcohol because it just might reduce domestic violence?
Any evidence to that effect?
Tink above quotes the three now well known instances of the most dire family violence. These tragedies were not caused by alcohol. No mention of even the slightest involvement of alcohol has been made in any of these cases. Helen Garner, in her outstanding book "This House of Grief", describes at some length the personality problems of the father who drove his children into the dam.

This is actually the link I meant to provide earlier:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-27/alcohol-might-not-be-the-cause-of-violent/6270156

The Labor government declared they were going to fix binge drinking in teenagers, so whacked a substantial tax on pre-mixed drinks. No worries, said the kids: they just bought whole bottles of spirits, added some mixers, and probably ended up consuming more alcohol than ever.

If people want to drink or take other drugs they will.

Suggesting an additional tax on alcohol will ameliorate family violence is even more silly than putting a tax on rope because a lot of suicides are by hanging. At least there we know the rope is involved.:rolleyes:
 
We need to observe the government's hypocrisy in stating that 2015 must bring a reduction in family violence whilst they remove much of the funding to support services for women escaping that very violence. Many refuges have had to close down, leaving women and their children with nowhere to go.

I often criticise the ABC but hopefully recognise their excellent contributions. Last Monday's "Four Corners" on family violence was genuinely useful and would have provided anyone watching with considerable insight into the complexities of this issue.
 
Just on alcohol taxation and behaviour, this paper outlines some reasonably recent findings.
Elder et al. The same line was being taught when I was in undergraduate psychology a decade ago. While I don't believe DV is a symptom of readily available alcohol (although in many cases most likely made worse by it), increased pricing appears to be an effective way to reduce intake. I'm sure if alcohol is less available, other substances (inc moonshine) will be used instead, perhaps leading to alternative negative outcomes and possibly without reducing DV as hoped.

It is a shame though that taxation is not a very discriminant measure.
 
Agree with you, Julia, regarding the ABC and certain documentaries.

Helen Garner, in her outstanding book "This House of Grief", describes at some length the personality problems of the father who drove his children into the dam.

This case of the father driving his children in the dam on Father's Day, was awful.
I still remember Cindy refusing to believe that he had done this to their children, and standing by him at the start of the case.
As each day passed, damning evidence came through.
It was sad to watch, and every few years, he still takes it to the High Court.
 
Agree, overhang.

I also don't know anyone that agrees with the public holidays, just another way to fatten up the public sector, and put more pressure on businesses to close their doors.
Higher costs, less work, fewer jobs.
The Unions are running the show.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...g-out-union-ious/story-fni0ffsx-1227240563983

I am an AFL fan, but I don't see any need to have a holiday, the DAY BEFORE the Grand Final.
It is not even Grand Final Day.
 
noco said:
It will be just another cost to business by the unions....The unions have stuffed this country with their demands over the past 60 years...Is it any wonder our manufacturing industry has gone west.
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Australia is much better now than it was 60 years ago. I remember how things were in my childhood and if we went back to that then we would be stuffed.

The irony of the doomsayers who lament no plan for the future, is that the future was already predicted by the previous govt and the need for fast reorganisation and education imperatives to match so we could ascend into a higher plane of existence instead of competing with cheap labour cost alsorans up north of the equator.

For some reason the Australian public still have a romantic notion that the puritan ethic is the clever ethic and that we can't compete with the mercantile and services sectors of the first world countries. We still think we have one more Hills Hoist or Victor Mower in us to "put us on the map" and distract us from our cultural cringe.

The Labor Party has many failings because it wears it's heart on it's sleeve. But it is a force majeure in Australian politics that has a good chance of winning power again due to the paralysis of the LNP and the wasted six years it should have been planning policy instead of panning the Lab govt. It was Labor who setup the post war industrialisation in the face of conservatives wanting us to be the food bowl and commodities provider for the United Kingdom.

It was recent Labor who tried (and succeeded somewhat) in setting up education as an industry to sell into foreign nations.

It was Labor who tried (and the legacy still has a pulse) to set up a new communications asset in the NBN that would more than offset the cost of install, but oppositional greed for power and cronyism prevailed.

It isn't Labor presiding over the collapse of the mining investment and build.

It isn't Labor presiding over the finality of the car industry.

It isn't Labor in charge of govt and in charge of budget that has 80% completion

It is not historically the LNP who build large industry in this country, but the Labs.

I'm not a fan of either the Labs or Libs, but that is as I see it.
 
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