Useless Labor Party

[Julia]

You have to be joking right? There are more immigrants coming into this country than ever, and heaps of them may as well be illegals, because they don't speak english, have no formal qualifications and will become a major burden on this society in years to come. The country is based on huge personal debt and personal tax. Thats how he has managed to eliminate the deficit. It's a no brainer, tax to the max and of course the government looks good. What a farken joke this place has become, highest personal income tax and a GST, not to mention stamp duty etc etc etc. No wonder there is a such a demand for accountants.

Does this country actually produce anything of worth anymore other than houses and raw minerals? Answer: nope. It is well and truly time for him to depart. In fact it really does not matter what jokers run the country now, the place is a dead loss.

Crackaton:

Who would you suggest as a replacement and how do you think he/she/that party would manage what better?

Julia

 

[bunyip]

Well now Crackaton.......

I agree that there are more immigrants coming into this country than ever, and heaps of them may as well be illegals, because they don't speak english, have no formal qualifications and will become a major burden on this society in years to come.

Our immigration policy is crass stupidity, no question about it. But it wasn't started by Howard and it won't end if he gets replaced by an ALP government.

You reckon this place is a 'farken joke' and 'a dead loss', and it won't make any difference who runs the country. Wow...you really sound disillusioned!
What's the solution then, if there is one?
Or should we just emigrate to a better place ourselves?
And where would that 'better place' be?

Bunyip

 

[anon]

tax policy,- swapped one crap, complicated, unfair system for another - fail

social policy, what social policy? - fail

health, - treading water, failed to improve it.. it's actually very expensive. I wouldn't say fail, but wouldn't pass either.

and education... - don't know

A big problem with taxation is people not paying taxes. There are some prominent barristers who haven't paid taxes in over twenty years. Big business people have been known to use off-shore tax havens. I've heard that there is rorting with gst.

If everybody paid their due share - the tax burden for those who can't or won't avoid paying would be decreased.


If you are talking about the social welfare policy - then I can only say it is far too generous. There are several million work able people in Australia who don't work forcing those who do work to pay higher taxes. Migrants stream in to Australia being attracted by our welfare system. "Figures based on 1996 census noted that welfrare dependency rate in the largely Muslim Lebanese community is three times the national average". (Article by Angela Shanahan in Weekend Australian, Inquirer, 18/19 Feb. 2006).

Noel Pearson, a prominent Aboriginal social activist argues strongly that the too generous welfare system is harming the indiginous peoples.


Health is a state responsibility, not commonwealth's. Just have a look at how Mr Beatty has stuffed it up in Queensland. And our problems will flow on to the other states.


Education - that is another very important national issue which happens to be a state responsibility. And it is in a disastrous state. No wonder so many parents opt to pay big money to have their children educated in private schools.

anon

 

[Bobby]

A big problem with taxation is people not paying taxes. There are some prominent barristers who haven't paid taxes in over twenty years. Big business people have been known to use off-shore tax havens. I've heard that there is rorting with gst.

If everybody paid their due share - the tax burden for those who can't or won't avoid paying would be decreased.


If you are talking about the social welfare policy - then I can only say it is far too generous. There are several million work able people in Australia who don't work forcing those who do work to pay higher taxes. Migrants stream in to Australia being attracted by our welfare system. "Figures based on 1996 census noted that welfrare dependency rate in the largely Muslim Lebanese community is three times the national average". (Article by Angela Shanahan in Weekend Australian, Inquirer, 18/19 Feb. 2006).

Noel Pearson, a prominent Aboriginal social activist argues strongly that the too generous welfare system is harming the indiginous peoples.


Health is a state responsibility, not commonwealth's. Just have a look at how Mr Beatty has stuffed it up in Queensland. And our problems will flow on to the other states.


Education - that is another very important national issue which happens to be a state responsibility. And it is in a disastrous state. No wonder so many parents opt to pay big money to have their children educated in private schools.

anon

Well Anon you seem do have your finger on the pulse ! Mate .
Bludgers from the middle east seem to have won the Gold medal in the welfare contest .

Bob

 

[Prospector]

And wealthy families who employ clever accountants so that they hand over their free education cards and avoid paying school fees and get free text books as the golds drips off their arms as they drive away in their latest model mercs........not waspish either!

 

[idribble]

OK crackaton, you're joking right? I'll take the bait tho'.

I suppose John Howard had HIS hand in YUOR pocker and forked out YOUR hard earned for the tens of thousands of dollars wirth of tech stuff that you really don't need to exist. then there's the up to date car that you really don't need. Then there's the 4 bedroom home, when you could actually do with three. All YOUR CHOICES cracko!! And you are the one paying the 15% interest .........

Next time, put a zip on your pocket so that John doesn't get his hands on your money or .....

Hey, you could stop spending beyond your means!! There's a novel idea.

 

[Mumbank]

Yes Anon there are some big name barristers who have not paid tax for 20 years or so, but they have now been struck off and most if not all are going to end with not a lot, see the High Court have now decided that Cummins little transfer of property to his wife was illegal and that now becomes part of his estate and so it should. These people are very ignorant to think they could get away with it - but hey how good are the tax dept - their Senior Legal Advisor had not ever paid tax and they were paying his huge fees and did not even realise he was not paying any tax!!!!!!!!!!! Boy they sure are on the ball.

Have you tried to get a tradesman to work and give you a Tax Invoice lately!!! Boy the cash society has increased heaps since the GST came in. And I'm not talking the little bits either, on recent renovations (which we didn't end up doing) not one person was willing to do the job unless it was for cash - that means no insurance, no warranty etc. If I can't work for cash why should they?!?!?!

So you see its not only barristers who don't pay tax, although they seem to get the blame for it all lately, but anyone who can get away without paying any tax does and those of us who can't get away with it don't. I have no problem paying my share we all have a social and moral obligation to do so, but if I can't get any benefits because of my income why should people earning lots more than me (but in cash) be able to get all the benefits of a "low income".

Personally, I'd rather earn more and pay more tax, because IMHO if you ain't got a tax problem - you ain't got any money!!!!!!!!

 

[BraceFace]

"
If Crean was brought back as ALP leader (which he will never be) he'd have no chance of leading his party to an election win.
Ditto for Beazley, whose days as ALP leader are clearly numbered.

Kevin Rudd.... too dour, too humourless, not enough public appeal.

Steven Smith....I thought he would have been knocking on the leadership door by now, but it hasn't happened so far. I thought he might have gone OK as ALP leader.

Gillard is their best prospect in the foreseeable future, and she'll probably oust Beasley in the not too distant future. But I doubt if Australians are ready for a woman PM just yet.

The one to watch is Bill Shorten. The ALP is obviously grooming him for the top job, and it won't surprise me if he goes all the way.
I shudder to think of an ex - ACTU boss as our PM. Former ACTU boss Hawke was a disaster as PM and I doubt if Shorten would be any improvement.

I reckon, this is a pretty fair summary on the current Federal ALP leadship situation, although I reckon you're being a bit harsh on Bob. He was in the job for 7 years - so he couldn't have been that bad. I seem to remember that our current PM was an opposition front bencher at the time. Back then the coalition bore strikingly similar resemblences to the current day ALP - no direction, infighting, leadership problems(of which Lil John was right in the middle)....I wouldn't write the ALP off just yet.
Crean and Gillard - would be about as effective leaders as Hewson and Downer were to the Libs. No way Jose
Rudd - has potential but needs a charisma makeover.
Smith - served his apprenticeship as under Keating and certainly has the credentials to make an excellent future leader (but not until the "other" WA guy - Beazley, is off the scene)
As much as I like Beazley, I think he's going to have to pull one out the hat to win the next election.I can't see anyone else doing a better job for the ALP at the moment, so they might as well stick with experience.
I reckon the only chance he has got is if Howard stands down and we have a Beazley V Costello election on our hands. The smarm factor could be Costello's undoing.

It may be time for Bob Carr or another ex-state ALP premier to step up to the plate.

And then there's Peter Garrett - he get the younger voters for sure

 

[Julia]

I reckon, this is a pretty fair summary on the current Federal ALP leadship situation, although I reckon you're being a bit harsh on Bob. He was in the job for 7 years - so he couldn't have been that bad. I seem to remember that our current PM was an opposition front bencher at the time. Back then the coalition bore strikingly similar resemblences to the current day ALP - no direction, infighting, leadership problems(of which Lil John was right in the middle)....I wouldn't write the ALP off just yet.
Crean and Gillard - would be about as effective leaders as Hewson and Downer were to the Libs. No way Jose
Rudd - has potential but needs a charisma makeover.
Smith - served his apprenticeship as under Keating and certainly has the credentials to make an excellent future leader (but not until the "other" WA guy - Beazley, is off the scene)
As much as I like Beazley, I think he's going to have to pull one out the hat to win the next election.I can't see anyone else doing a better job for the ALP at the moment, so they might as well stick with experience.
I reckon the only chance he has got is if Howard stands down and we have a Beazley V Costello election on our hands. The smarm factor could be Costello's undoing.

It may be time for Bob Carr or another ex-state ALP premier to step up to the plate.

And then there's Peter Garrett - he get the younger voters for sure

The "smarm factor" is a good expression. Perhaps also the "smirk factor"?

Julia

 

[Rafa]

i wonder how many state level premiers have considered the switch to federal....

as for bob carr, dunno how muddied his name has now become... beattie seems a better leader to me...

its fair to say, there is no way a labor lefty will win the election unless there is a massive change in popular sentiment... (that rules out gillard an co...)

the labor leader would have to come from labor's right... pragmatic with a social conscience...

i like rudd cause he talks a lot of sense, tho his pompous mannerism need to be turned down...

all this factional crap has been blown out of all proportion, i mean, which politcal party doesn't have it... its just that the party in power and a popular leader masks the in-fighting...

 

[anon]

Mumbank said -
"Personally, I'd rather earn more and pay more tax, because IMHO if you ain't got a tax problem - you ain't
got any money!!!!!!!!"

Well said, Mumbank! I couldn't agree more. anon



Is our alternative major political party a "Useless Labor Party" ?

Judging by their behaviour it seems that it is, which is very unfortunate for the nation. The mob that is in the
government now seem to be making a reasonable job of running the country, but how long will they be able to
keep it up ? They need to be pushed to keep performing, or be pushed out by a party that will perform.



Is this Labor Party capable of doing it ? Are they really up to it ?

Labor party leaders and contenders who have been discussed in this thread are yesterday's people. The
unions that selected them are themselves dying off and before long may not exist at all. I am not talking about
the new IR laws that will cause the demise, though they will have a major bearing on this issue. I am
wondering just how long can a unionised workforce compete against the cheap production coming from
China, and soon from India, And not just manufacturing either. Just keep an eye on Qantas for one.


Of the people currently at the top I'd go for Kevin Rudd. I heard him speak about three years ago and
remember being impressed with his sincerity, energy, and obvious ability. I think that I could trust him, which
is more than I can say for Julia Gillard.

anon

 

[Prospector]

Yes anon - I think all you say is true! And I think Kevin Rudd would be better than the other options presented too!

Unions are on their way out whether they like it or not. The issue with unions is that they are most powerful when they are not needed, and pretty powerless when they are.

We do need a strong opposition to keep the Government on track and that applies to state politics too! In SA our opposition has been decimated - not because what Rann and his mates are doing right, but because what the opposition is doing is so, very very wrong. They are split by factions - they would rather have 'their' man as opposition leader, rather than another faction's 'man' as premier! Unbelievable :swear: So as a compromise they put up a person whom everyone likes as the nice friendly man but in no way effective as someone who can lead the state!

Now we have another foour years of huffing puffing aren't I great Media Mike

 

[Nicks]

Bob Carr?

Well this is what I have to say:

This is Australia, not NSW. Carr has done a very ordinary job looking after NSW, and NSW IS NOT AUSTRALIA.

If you want toll roads and bridges everywhere, ridiculously expensive real estate, slimebag who looks after himself (now consults for very large sums of money to companies that are running the privatised roads which he sold) then look no further than slimy Carr. Why would you privatise a road and charge people money? expressways save money.

Just coz you have run Sydney does not automatically mean you are good enough to run the country. Its a different league and plenty of state Premiers have excelled much more than Bob. So why are we talking Carr then? oh thats right, everything in this country revolves around NSW.

So to the typical Sydneysider (of which I used to be one) who knows nothing more than Sydney, open your eyes and get off of your pedestal.

 

[mista200]

How can anyone on this forum support a party that wants to amend/destroy the new workplace laws. I mean come on we are capitalists aren't we?

 

[Julia]

How can anyone on this forum support a party that wants to amend/destroy the new workplace laws. I mean come on we are capitalists aren't we?

Hello Mista200

Is your post just a bit tongue in cheek?

As it happens I couldn't support that party as it stands at present, and am overall happy with the status quo, despite some concerns about its social values (or lack thereof).

That doesn't mean, however, that I don't have considerable sympathy for what will probably be vast numbers of people who simply lack the personal skills of assertiveness etc to negotiate the best possible deals for themselves in the work environment. They are vulnerable to exploitation and, whilst the results may be advantageous to the broader economy - what we capitalists are looking for, are we not - I feel it would be a sad day when that consideration completely obliterates any concern we may feel for our less vocal or articulate citizens.

Julia

 

[twojacks28]

the main problem with the IR laws is that most people dont understand them. they are actully good as the employers and employees have even amounts of power in the workplace. there is a problem with the sacking of workers with no reason but with all new laws there are flaws and most are always fixed up it just takes time.

 

[noco]

I could believe how these "HILL BILLIES" behaved in parliament come question time Wednesday......It was a well rehearsed and orchestrated performance to turn parliament into a circus with Bill Shorten and Tony Bourke the main clowns.

It was a typical union hack display of disruption, bullying and intimidation......the disrespect for the speaker Bronwyn Bishop was an absolute disgrace of the first order.

The laughter and the hand waving was a special feature organised no doubt by Shorten himself....I would not have been surprised if the speaker had asked Shorten to leave the chamber because he was no doubt the ring leader.

Paul Sheehan on Labor’s strange denial:

Anyone watching the proceedings of Parliament on Wednesday, during which [Julie] Collins was thrown out by the speaker for impersonating a schoolgirl chortling and sledging in class, may be struck by the way the political class is increasingly divorced from reality. It applies to all parties but is stark in the current insular model of the ALP, which lost last year’s federal election, just lost office in Tasmania, just lost its majority in South Australia, was smashed in the last NSW election, was smashed in the last Queensland election and lost office in the last Victorian election. It even lost its majority in the ACT in 2012.

It’s been the same for the Greens, with a series of heavy defeats in federal, state and local government elections, including a disaster in one of its strongholds, Canberra, where it lost three of its four seats in the 2012 ACT Legislative Assembly elections.Yet none of these clear messages from the electorate appears to have made a scintilla of difference to either of the parties pummelled by the voters. We know they care deeply about losing, because Labor and the Greens desperately need control of the public sector to service their bases, but it appears increasingly and depressingly obvious they are terminally inward-looking, and preoccupied with tactical skirmishing and scorched earth rejectionism.

(Thanks to reader Peter of Bellevue Hill.)

I am certain, a majority of viewers would have regarded their performance a disgrace......I could not believe even Hawke and Keating would have condoned such behaviour......They have brought parliament into disrepute and nothing like it has been seen before.

 

[noco]

A record 98 Labor members thrown out of parliament and they all deserved it for unruly disruption, bullying and intimidation of the speaker.

Read the comments to this link....I could only find one supporter for the misbehaviour of Labor members. ....Most of them are ex union thugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-bronwyn-bishop/story-fn59niix-1226866462186

 

[SirRumpole]

A record 98 Labor members thrown out of parliament and they all deserved it for unruly disruption, bullying and intimidation of the speaker.

Read the comments to this link....I could only find one supporter for the misbehaviour of Labor members. ....Most of them are ex union thugs.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-bronwyn-bishop/story-fn59niix-1226866462186

Bronwyn Bishop is the worst, most biased Speaker I've heard. Compared to Harry Jenkins, Anna Burke and even the Slipper she is inferior.

Throwing someone out for saying "Madam Speaker" is utterly corrupt imo.

She got what she deserved. The motion was always going to lose, but something had to be done.

She allows every answer to be a tirade against the Opposition when standing orders specify that answers must pertain to the Minister's responsibilities, not to those that went before.

Question Time is a farce under her Speakership.

 

[noco]

Bronwyn Bishop is the worst, most biased Speaker I've heard. Compared to Harry Jenkins, Anna Burke and even the Slipper she is inferior.

Throwing someone out for saying "Madam Speaker" is utterly corrupt imo.

She got what she deserved. The motion was always going to lose, but something had to be done.

She allows every answer to be a tirade against the Opposition when standing orders specify that answers must pertain to the Minister's responsibilities, not to those that went before.

Question Time is a farce under her Speakership.

She learnt all her lessons from Anna Burke...Anna Burke was a past master at allowing Gillard, Rudd and Swan to get away with murder ...of course we won"t mention the latest Labor jail bird.