Ukraine War

[Dona Ferentes]

Will the Wagner dash from Rostov to Moscow succeed or will it be like Operation Chenla II ?

According to channels, Wagner troops have entered Voronezh, which could bring the second Oblast's capital under Wagner's command..

That all fizzled. Not a real mutiny.

Some are comparing it to the Ten Thousand (Ancient Greek: οἱ Μύριοι, hoi Myrioi), a force of mercenary units, mainly Greeks, employed by Cyrus the Younger to attempt to wrest the throne of the Persian Empire from his brother, Artaxerxes II. Their march to the Battle of Cunaxa and back to Greece (401–399 BC) was recorded by Xenophon, one of their leaders.

... but not really, though the outcome down the track is that Alexander saw weaknesses in the Persian empire, and marched in , changing the "great power" balance and introducing a period of exceptional change.

Can Russia continue to cohere?

 

[farmerge]

That all fizzled. Not a real mutiny.

Some are comparing it to the Ten Thousand (Ancient Greek: οἱ Μύριοι, hoi Myrioi), a force of mercenary units, mainly Greeks, employed by Cyrus the Younger to attempt to wrest the throne of the Persian Empire from his brother, Artaxerxes II. Their march to the Battle of Cunaxa and back to Greece (401–399 BC) was recorded by Xenophon, one of their leaders.

... but not really, though the outcome down the track is that Alexander saw weaknesses in the Persian empire, and marched in , changing the "great power" balance and introducing a period of exceptional change.

Can Russia continue to cohere?

And as with all stories there has to be more than we are being told. Marching forward and a sudden turnaround Hmmmm

 

[JohnDe]

That all fizzled. Not a real mutiny.

Some are comparing it to the Ten Thousand (Ancient Greek: οἱ Μύριοι, hoi Myrioi), a force of mercenary units, mainly Greeks, employed by Cyrus the Younger to attempt to wrest the throne of the Persian Empire from his brother, Artaxerxes II. Their march to the Battle of Cunaxa and back to Greece (401–399 BC) was recorded by Xenophon, one of their leaders.

... but not really, though the outcome down the track is that Alexander saw weaknesses in the Persian empire, and marched in , changing the "great power" balance and introducing a period of exceptional change.

Can Russia continue to cohere?

Prigozhin was counting on assistance from within the Russian government /military, but whoever was backing him has pulled the plug and backdowned. This has made Prigozhin to fall on his back-up plan - negotiate a deal that both he and Putin can live with. Regardless of what has and has not happened, Putin is now weaker than he has ever been.

Listen to this very good explanation -

 

[farmerge]

Prigozhin was counting on assistance from within the Russian government /military, but whoever was backing him has pulled the plug and backdowned. This caused Prigozhin to fall on his back-up plan - negotiate a deal that both he and Putin can live with. Regardless of what has and has not happened, Putin is now weaker than he has ever been.

Listen to this very good explanation -

It must be only a matter of time before Putrid gets to meet his maker or whatever. There will be a gap in his defence where he will be got, unless of course he decides to reside in a rat hole for the rest of his days.

 

[The Triangle]

Prigozhin was counting on assistance from within the Russian government /military, but whoever was backing him has pulled the plug and backdowned. This has made Prigozhin to fall on his back-up plan - negotiate a deal that both he and Putin can live with. Regardless of what has and has not happened, Putin is now weaker than he has ever been.

Listen to this very good explanation -

Western Media has been saying for how many years how weak putin is looking and how he is weaker than ever?

Took putin about a half day to put down an armed rebellion with no blood. The conspirator leader backed down to exile. Dunno how that makes putin weaker than ever.

Back to my original point that this all feels staged and made-up for some reason.

 

[wayneL]

Western Media has been saying for how many years how weak putin is looking and how he is weaker than ever?

Took putin about a half day to put down an armed rebellion with no blood. The conspirator leader backed down to exile. Dunno how that makes putin weaker than ever.

Back to my original point that this all feels staged and made-up for some reason.

Kim Dotcom was on the money

 

[JohnDe]

Western Media has been saying for how many years how weak putin is looking and how he is weaker than ever?

Took putin about a half day to put down an armed rebellion with no blood. The conspirator leader backed down to exile. Dunno how that makes putin weaker than ever.

Back to my original point that this all feels staged and made-up for some reason.

I can't recall reading or seeing past 'western media' reports on the weekness of President Putin, until recently. News articles and reports during the past dozen or so years have been about his iron control and strength, about the number of US Presidents he as outlasted. The TV show House of Cards even documented his wile charisma and cunning strength.

As for Putin putting down an 'armed rebellion', this could all be a form of history repeating. Remember the unsuccessful August 1991 coup against Gorbachev during the USSR period?

I doubt that what has happened is 'staged and made-up' because this has been slowly playing out from when it was obvious that the majority o the Ukranian people backed their government and the Russian military could not take control of the capital. And then the body bags started coming home to Russian parents. Putin had no choice but to call in a mercenary group because his military was struggling, and on top of that he was supplying the Wagner group with heavy weapons and recruits from the prison system. All while Russian Generals were being undermined and watching a chef take the limelight. This created a hatred that would not allow the Generals to willingly assist the Wagner group, and thus a silent internal battle of wills and secret games has slowly brewed.

 

[moXJO]

We don't really know what happened here. I find it weird that one of Putin's most hard-line supporters would attempt to topple him.
Shoigu however would be walking a fine line.

Something weird happened and I guess we won't really know the full truth.

Plenty of conspiracies though. Like that $6.2 billion "accounting error" that was made.

 

[JohnDe]

We don't really know what happened here. I find it weird that one of Putin's most hard-line supporters would attempt to topple him.
Shoigu however would be walking a fine line.

Something weird happened and I guess we won't really know the full truth.

Plenty of conspiracies though. Like that $6.2 billion "accounting error" that was made.

He chose his words carefully, supporting Putin while attacking the Russian Generals and ministers.

Put yourself in his shoes, you’ve been hired by the owner of the business to do a job and yo have been successful. Making upper management look incompetent. They then band together putting obstacles in your way, limiting supply, and sabotaging parts of your plan.

Your company is fully committed, there is no pulling out without collapsing. What are you going to do?

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Kim Dotcom was on the money
]

Is lardboy commenting on the special domestic military operation?

 

[wayneL]

Is lardboy commenting on the special domestic military operation?

Dunno, we've all moved onto speculating as to when Prigozhin gets taken out.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

Dunno, we've (?) all moved onto speculating as to when Prigozhin gets taken out.

Nine months to take Bakhmut , 3 hours to take Rostov-on-Don. Genius.

 

[wayneL]

Nine months to take Bakhmut , 3 hours to take Rostov-on-Don. Genius.

We're (?) all warfare geniuses, apparently.

Me, I'm just loading up on potassium iodide and baked beans.

 

[wayneL]

...or is it genii? Geniae? Geniusae? Theyniuses?

 

[mullokintyre]

A flight from Moscow to Washington DC is en route according to Flight radar 24.
This Ilyushin 96 is part of the Russian Government's special Flight Squadron.
I wonder who might be on it, what their mission is, and who will they be meeting?
Some interesting times coming up.
Mick

 

[noirua]

Head of Ukrainian armed forces frustrated at West’s criticism that counter-offensive is too slow​

MSN

www.msn.com

Gen Valery Zaluzhny revealed his frustrations with the impatience of some Western officials and military analysts, saying more ambitious plans were not feasible “without being fully supplied” with weapons and ammunition.

 

[noirua]

Ukraine-Russia war latest: Ukraine destroys huge ammunition dump - watch

Ukrainian forces struck a large Russian ammunition dump in the occupied town of Makiivka.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Telamelo]

Not meaning to be a doomsday poster.. but unfortunately think, believe & feel that we are ever so close to WW3 given escalation of conflict in Ukraine. NATO/US alliance are intent on pursuing their means to surround Russia on all sides & pushing their agenda for Ukraine to also join NATO (noting Finland recently joined NATO). Turkey seems to have surprisingly also turned on Russia by supporting idea that Ukraine join NATO. Putin won't be pleased whatsoever about current developments.

Putin & his 2IC below him (can't recall his name) keeps warning the West that when push comes to shove in the event the NATO/US alliance intensify their attacks on Russia's sovereignty that "all hell will break loose" potential nuclear WW3 etc.

Sadly this political, strategic chess game around Ukraine is intensifying and I can't see any peaceful resolution anytime soon - in fact, fear that one morning we'll wake up & WW3 has begun neither side wins in any war as it's humanity & mankind that suffers horrifically badly.

Our supposedly "intelligent human race" sadly has not learnt any lessons from past wars & conflicts - saying it's "all in the name of peace".

 

[UMike]

Sweden, Finland and Ukraine are only joining Nato because Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

[noirua]

Russian media identified the dead as Alexei and Natalia Kulik, who were traveling to Crimea for a summer vacation. The 40-year-old Kulik was a truck driver and his 36-year-old wife was a municipal education worker. Their 14-year-old daughter suffered chest and brain injuries.

Ukraine claims responsibility for new attack on key Crimea bridge​

By Josh Pennington, Alex Stambaugh, Brad Lendon and Christian Edwards, CNN
Updated 9:22 AM EDT, Mon July 17, 2023

CNN —
A Ukrainian security official has claimed Kyiv’s responsibility for an attack on the bridge linking the annexed Crimean peninsula to the Russian mainland – a vital supply line for Russia’s war effort in Ukraine and a personal project for President Vladimir Putin.
The nearly 12-mile crossing, also known as the Kerch Bridge, is the longest in Europe and holds huge strategic and symbolic importance for Moscow. Monday’s attack on the bridge was the second since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine, after a fuel tanker exploded while crossing it in October.
A source in Ukraine’s Security Service (SBU) told CNN this attack was a joint operation of the SBU and Ukraine’s naval forces. The source spoke on condition of anonymity because they had not received authorization to speak on the record.


Two people were killed and their daughter wounded in the attack, according to Russian-appointed officials.
Two strikes were reportedly carried out around 3 a.m. local time Monday (8 p.m. ET Sunday), damaging part of the bridge, according to Telegram channel Grey Zone, which supports the Wagner mercenary group led by Yevgeny Prigozhin.


LIVE UPDATES: Russia's war in Ukraine
Explosions were heard around 3:04 a.m. and 3:20 a.m. local time, Grey Zone and popular Crimean blogger ‘TalipoV Online Z’ said on Telegram.



CNN is unable to verify those reports.
The governor of Russia’s Belgorod region, Vyacheslav Gladkov, confirmed that two people were killed and a third person was injured in the incident.
Gladkov said a girl was injured and her parents were killed while traveling in the car that was damaged in the incident.
“There is damage to the roadway on spans of the Crimean Bridge,” Russia’s Transport Ministry said on Telegram. The spans on a bridge are the lengths between the support piers. Images showed a partial collapse of a section of the roadway portion of the bridge, which also carries railroad tracks.
On his Telegram channel, Vladimir Konstantinov, head of the State Council of the Republic of Crimea, blamed the damage to the bridge on a Ukrainian attack.
“Tonight the terrorist regime in Kyiv committed a new crime – it attacked the Crimean bridge,” Konstantinov said.
“The railroad track was not damaged by the strike,” Konstantinov added.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters Monday that Putin has been briefed on the incident, and that Deputy Prime Minister Marat Khusnullin will today travel to Crimea to further assess the situation.
“We know the reasons and those behind this terrorist act,” Peskov said. “This will require further composure and additional measures and work from all of us. No other measures have been discussed at the moment.”
Videos posted on Telegram by Baza, Grey Zone and other Crimean news outlets appeared to show part of the bridge collapsed and a vehicle damaged in the incident.
Emergency responders and law enforcement have been dispatched to the scene, said Sergey Aksenov, the Russia-appointed head of Crimea.


VIDEO
First video of damage to Crimean Bridge surfaces after reported strike
Aksenov urged residents and those traveling to and from Crimea to choose an alternative land route.
The bridge is a critical artery for supplying Crimea with both its daily needs and supplies for the military, in addition to fuel and goods for civilians.
A Russian-backed official of the peninsula, Elena Elekchyan, said Crimea is well supplied with fuel, food and industrial goods.
Denis Pushilin, the Russia-backed head of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, said on Telegram that he had spoken with his Crimean counterpart to introduce measures “to ensure the faster passage of checkpoints on the administrative border.” Pushilin said the nightly curfew was being suspended to allow “round-the-clock” travel to Crimea, and that he was working to ensure the availability of fuel at gas stations along the route.
Last year, another huge blast partially damaged the crossing, causing parts of it to collapse.
The bridge was severely damaged on October 8 when a fuel tanker exploded and destroyed a large section of the road. Responding to the attack – which took place the day after Putin turned 70 – Ukrainian officials posted a video of the bridge in flames alongside a video of Marilyn Monroe singing “Happy Birthday, Mister President.”
Russia built the 19-kilometer bridge at a cost of around $3.7 billion after Moscow illegally annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in 2014. It was the physical expression of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s objective to take over Ukraine and bind it to Russia forever.

Russian investigators work at the scene on the section of the bridge damaged on July 17, 2023.
Investigative Committee of Russia/Reuters
After the October blast, Russia quickly set about repairs to the span. It was fully reopened to traffic in February.
Earlier this month, Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar made what appeared to be the clearest admission yet that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the October attack.
A Ukraine official on Monday said damage to the bridge could hamper Russian logistics.
“Any logistical problems are additional complications for the occupiers, which create potential advantages for the Ukrainian defense forces,” Representative of the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine Andrii Yusov said to Ukraine’s public broadcaster, Suspilne.
Hours after the explosions on the bridge, Russia announced that it is allowing a deal struck to enable the export of Ukrainian grain to expire, sparking fears of global food insecurity.
Peskov also told reporters that the decision to allow the deal to lapse was not related to Ukraine’s claimed strike on the bridge.
“These are absolutely unrelated events,” he said. “Even before this terrorist attack, the position was declared by President Putin. And I repeat again, as soon as the part of the Black Sea agreements concerning Russia is fulfilled, Russia will immediately return to the implementation of the deal.”


http://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/17/e...utin-explainer-intl/index.html?obOrigUrl=true
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world...e--071708aseg2--cnni-world.cnn?obOrigUrl=true

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/16/europe/russia-crimea-bridge-intl-hnk/index.html