Ukraine War

[qldfrog]

Mate you need to get some sleep, you never know when you will need to be well rested.

We talk about that post in 6 months...

 

[Telamelo]

Russia hit Kyiv with cruise missiles fired from the Caspian Sea on Sunday, striking the Ukrainian capital in the first such attack for weeks, as Vladimir Putin warned that any Western deliveries of longer-range rocket systems would prompt Moscow to hit “objects that we haven’t yet struck”.

 

[Sean K]

I'm not sure what international law they're breaking with this, but I'm sure it fits some criteria.

During heated exchanges at the UN Security Council, Charles Michel, the president of the European Council, addressed Moscow’s envoy directly: “Mr Ambassador of the Russian Federation, let’s be honest, the Kremlin is using food supplies as a stealth missile against developing countries.

“The dramatic consequences of Russia’s war are spilling over across the globe, and this is driving up food prices, pushing people into poverty, and destabilising entire regions. Russia is solely responsible for this food crisis.”

Vassily Nebenzia, the Russian ambassador, accused Michel of spreading lies and left the meeting.

Ukrainian officials have accused Russia of stealing grain worth S100 million from occupied territory and orchestrating a food crisis to pressure the West. Ukraine and Russia jointly account for a quarter of the global supply of wheat. Prices have soared since the invasion in February, when Russia blockaded Ukraine’s Black Sea ports.

Russia has been dangling a guarantee to allow Ukrainian grain safe passage if the country’s military removes mines from its ports. Kyiv, however, fears that the Kremlin would then launch attacks from the sea. Russia and Turkey, which controls access to the Black Sea, are holding talks in Ankara on how to restart exports. Under the proposals, Turkish ships would help de-mine the waters off Odesa and guarantee safe passage for Ukrainian cargo vessels through the Bosphorus.

Kyiv has not been invited to the talks while the Kremlin has demanded sanctions relief in return for easing the blockade, which British officials have described as blackmail. Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s foreign minister, said that Moscow could use such an opening to launch an amphibious invasion.

 

[mullokintyre]

I'm not sure what international law they're breaking with this, but I'm sure it fits some criteria.

It matters little as to what International law they are breaking when they really don't recognize "international Law".
Similar to the Chinese and their claims to the South China Sea, their tariffs and sanctions against Australia and other countries with whom they have disagreements.
Mick

 

[Sean K]

It matters little as to what International law they are breaking when they really don't recognize "international Law".
Similar to the Chinese and their claims to the South China Sea, their tariffs and sanctions against Australia and other countries with whom they have disagreements.
Mick

Yes, makes a bit of a mockery of IHL, Geneva Conventions, etc when a member of the UNSC P5 does this. Although, the US and GB (and us) invaded Iraq under dodgy pretences too. Really need to change the P5 to P7 or 9 and a majority vote for sanctions or even military intervention under the Responsibility to Protect commitment. Although, that could just lead to the World formally dividing on the vote and you create two clear blocks ready to go to war.

 

[rederob]

Russia liberates Mariupol...

(This cemetery extends to the treeline in the background.)

 

[sptrawler]

This doesn't sound good for Ukraine, but Biden has been known to slip up a bit, it maybe an indication the bus is coming for Zelensky.

Biden says ‘Zelensky didn’t want to hear’ warnings that Putin would invade

The president acknowledged that the possibility of Putin launching an invasion may have seemed far-fetched: “I understand why they didn’t want to hear it.”

www.smh.com.au

Washington: US President Joe Biden said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tuned out warnings that Russia would invade his country in the lead-up to the February 24 attack.

“I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating, but I knew, and we had data to sustain, he was going in off the border. There was no doubt. And Zelensky didn’t want to hear it, nor did a lot of people,” Biden said Friday during a political fundraiser in Los Angeles hosted by Hollywood producer Jeffrey Katzenberg.

 

[The Triangle]

This doesn't sound good for Ukraine, but Biden has been known to slip up a bit, it maybe an indication the bus is coming for Zelensky.

Biden says ‘Zelensky didn’t want to hear’ warnings that Putin would invade

The president acknowledged that the possibility of Putin launching an invasion may have seemed far-fetched: “I understand why they didn’t want to hear it.”

www.smh.com.au

Washington: US President Joe Biden said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tuned out warnings that Russia would invade his country in the lead-up to the February 24 attack.

“I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating, but I knew, and we had data to sustain, he was going in off the border. There was no doubt. And Zelensky didn’t want to hear it, nor did a lot of people,” Biden said Friday during a political fundraiser in Los Angeles hosted by Hollywood producer Jeffrey Katzenberg.

He does slip up a bit, maybe sleepy creepy joe meant to say Zelensky didn't want to hear the reasons why Hunter should be appointed to the board of another Ukrainian company?

Looks like this 'war' is more or less won for Russia. Russia have the eastern bit of Ukraine. Can't see Ukraine getting it back no matter how many billions of American tax payer dollars Biden gives to his arms manufacturers. Only hope is that Putin just dies and Russia shrugs its shoulders and goes home.

 

[noirua]

Exactly what the Chinese think about Taiwan.

11 June 2022 - The American and Chinese defense ministers have held their first face-to-face talks in Singapore. Beijing has said that it will not hesitate to start a war if Taiwan declares independence. Now, US said, we do not support Taiwan independence. For more perspective on this, we're joined by Edward P. Joseph, faculty of Johns Hopkins School.

Taiwan Relations Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dona Ferentes]

UAF Commander:

• Active hostilities ongoing across 1,105 kilometers of frontline.
• According to the chief of Ukraine’s Armed Forces, Valery Zaluzhny, the frontlines constitute 2,450 kilometers in total.

 

[3 hound]

Bit of a PR nightmare for the west and in particular Germany that they are trying to be seen as supporting freedom and democracy in Ukraine while there is a literal Nazi element in the mix who also happen to be accused of war crimes in the disputed areas.

It's like the cognitive dissonance of marching in pride parades waving Ukraine flags.

 

[Sean K]

This is a bit of a worry. There's going to be a 'red line' to sanctions against Russia and stopping access to Kaliningrad might be it.

 

[JohnDe]

This is a bit of a worry. There's going to be a 'red line' to sanctions against Russia and stopping access to Kaliningrad might be it.

View attachment 143137

Yes, that is a worry. Russia is going for broke, they believe that no nation will risk an all out nuclear war with them.

The Russian exclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea is sandwiched between Poland to the south and Lithuania to the north and east.​

​

Annexed from Germany in 1945, the territory was a closed military zone throughout the Soviet period.​

​

In 2013, Russia deployed short-range Iskander ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads in the region, in what it said was a response to US plans to deploy a ballistic missile defence system in Europe.​

​

Kaliningrad profile

Provides an overview of Kaliningrad, including key facts about this Russian territory on the Baltic.

www.bbc.com

​

 

[Sean K]

Yes, that is a worry. Russia is going for broke, they believe that no nation will risk an all out nuclear war with them.

The Russian exclave of Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea is sandwiched between Poland to the south and Lithuania to the north and east.​

​

Annexed from Germany in 1945, the territory was a closed military zone throughout the Soviet period.​

​

In 2013, Russia deployed short-range Iskander ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads in the region, in what it said was a response to US plans to deploy a ballistic missile defence system in Europe.​

​

Kaliningrad profile

Provides an overview of Kaliningrad, including key facts about this Russian territory on the Baltic.

www.bbc.com

​

Lithuania are claiming they're just implementing EU sanctions, so this action must have been cleared by the EU and NATO. If Russia moves to occupy that gap to ensure access to Kaliningrad that cuts off the Baltic States land access to Poland and would be considered an attack on either Lithuania or Poland. NATO would have to respond.

 

[qldfrog]

Lithuania are claiming they're just implementing EU sanctions, so this action must have been cleared by the EU and NATO. If Russia moves to occupy that gap to ensure access to Kaliningrad that cuts off the Baltic States land access to Poland and would be considered an attack on either Lithuania or Poland. NATO would have to respond.

And on the other end,if NATO blockades that area, Russia has no choice but intervene....
Seems clear that NATO aka the US does not even try to stop escalation..
I am sure we will have comments like we should not negotiate with devil etc etc..mostly by keyboard warriors but we always have to find peace or at least status quo otherwise straight to WWIII....

 

[Dona Ferentes]

return to sender

 

[Telamelo]

And on the other end,if NATO blockades that area, Russia has no choice but intervene....
Seems clear that NATO aka the US does not even try to stop escalation..
I am sure we will have comments like we should not negotiate with devil etc etc..mostly by keyboard warriors but we always have to find peace or at least status quo otherwise straight to WWIII....

Hadn't realised this thread covered recent developments surrounding Kaliningrad (as I'd mentioned this on another thread "potential WW3 threat").

I feel that Kaliningrad will unfortunately be the trigger point to escalation/nuclear threat/warfare as can't see the EU/NATO/US backing off.

If anything, further provocation/sanctions/restrictions will force Putin to play his "deadly nuclear hand" with devastating consequences for Europe imo (as suspect Putin going to lose his patience soon).

 

[Telamelo]

https://www.news.com.au/world/russia-warns-nato-member-lithuania-of-serious-consequences-if-it-doesnt-lift-blockade-of-kaliningrad/news-story/fabcb6022d99e799a395a5fc5404a003

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putin-announces-chilling-nuclear-threat-amid-growing-tensions/news-story/bac0df041c9b7d5434300d96d3516e35

 

[Sean K]

And on the other end,if NATO blockades that area, Russia has no choice but intervene....
Seems clear that NATO aka the US does not even try to stop escalation..
I am sure we will have comments like we should not negotiate with devil etc etc..mostly by keyboard warriors but we always have to find peace or at least status quo otherwise straight to WWIII....

So, you are still claiming the West caused Russia to invade a nation state?

(from my keyboard )

 

[qldfrog]

So, you are still claiming the West caused Russia to invade a nation state?

(from my keyboard )

definitively, the US started the process under Obama with the whole Biden's son saga and put Russia back to the wall.
Nothing like that would have happened under Trump but the democrats and lobbies got into power..I do not say elected... and were back to their initial plan (remember Russia/Clinton relations?)

Putin f.up majestically as he was expecting to be welcomed as a liberator....
But the US was ready..A PR puppet was in place (trained actor)
Putin just forgot most of the pro Russians had already moved to the Russian sided Crimea/Dosnek... and now the war..which was initially a civil war had moved up one level...a bit like Yugoslavia in its time if you remember?
We bombed Serbia to let Kosovo turn into a muslim terrorist training ground, Putin thought he could do similar and push out the pro west Ukrainians over.
this is becoming history and is the start of WWIII (cold or hot, the US will decide probably within months) ..nicely timed with the way to get out of an economic deadend.
That's my view.
I have no certitude except truth is definitively not what our own propaganda pushes on us.
Neither is it Kremlin's story we can agree there too;And getting hard to get unbiased views.
If you see otherwise, how do you interpret the cuban crisis?Was Kennedy wrong? I do not think so

There is always a line in the sand not to push..even between friends, Nato did push it , was no friend and got the expected push back. Simple
In the meantime, for this political game, people are dying, atrocities are rampant..on both sides
And absolutely deluded Europe is paying the price but Poland andTurkey are gaining power, even the US a bit...while China is laughing all the way to its cash register.
As for ukraine as a nation state..hum..as good as south sudan in term of legitimity, the poorest place in europe well below Romania and was getting worse and worse even before the war=> 3 times poorer than Russia per citizen..says it all..., overthrown of elected governments, worst corruption in Europe which made EU membership impossible...pre war..but now all good .Provider of sex slaves and human traficking, and soon exporter of US military weapons to the world mafia, key importer of stolen European goods and luxury German cars .
A delight..but the inhabitants did not deserved to be slaughtered from both sides to fulfill the US puppet handlers wishes.
Just waiting for the first tactical nuke next..God bless us..the horrors to come...