U.S. Presidential Election 2020

[satanoperca]

Don't wish this was a stock you had a position in?

 

[dutchie]

Sounds all good, except for 238,000 deaths from mismanagement by Chump.

He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.

I think you just proved moXJO's point.

 

[IFocus]

The below article popped up in my Google feed. I think it's a good read, and follows on from GG's comments above. Of course, it is just one author's opinion, so you may disagree with it. But it did give me pause for thought.

I've made no secret that I think Trump was unfit to be President, although I acknowledge the opposing viewpoints in this thread - some expressed more cogently than others.

While I am glad Biden won or, more accurately, that Trump lost, this is by no means the end of all things ailing the US, as alluded to in this article.

I'm sure I will disagree with some of Biden's (or Harris's) policies, but if he can assist in transforming the Divided States of America back to the United States of America, I think that would be a big step in the right direction. Perhaps just wishful thinking.

I guess we'll see in 4 (or more) years whether the United States has become the United Socialist States of America, as so many seem to fear.

Hopefully both parties will present and the American people will choose better candidates in 2024 than have been available in 2016 and 2020. Until then, it is what it is.

P.S.: I think I've got politics fatigue, and will likely unsubscribe from this thread and close down Facebook for a good while ?

The world news platform

All world news in one place

theworldnews.net

That's not a bad effort from Joe Hildebrand, I think Stan Grant has written some excellent articles some content I see Joe used in his article.

The issue is how will the Republicans tap into to the 70mil who voted for Trump.

And I think they were voting for Trump not the GOP.

Also note (Joe didn't cover) the current actions are not about winning the election that has clearly gone to Biden but running the case that Biden's election is illegitimate.

We can all look forward to 4 years of GOP senate obstruction and claims Biden stole the election.

Final note the United States have never been united (maybe WWII) its always been divided and will continue to be so. I don't recall any President that used this fact and fed division so aggressively as Trump.

Of course Newt Gingrich started the rot in the modern era which led to the Tea Party and allowed extreme voices to be admitted to the main stream but lacked unity but Trump really has the amazing talent for bringing those forces together.

Sadly the richest nation in the worlds history will still have people living on the streets begging and large numbers without access to health care or opportunity.

 

[satanoperca]

I think you just proved moXJO's point.

What wars did Chump man end exactly, not ones he claimed to have ended, real evidence.

List of wars: 2003–present - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[moXJO]

Just to be clear everyone here would be centre with a slight lean left or right.
I actually agree with bas on a lot of points and admire his tenacity on a lot of subjects.
He doesn't give up on issues. Reminds me a lot of Trump (Who as you know is my favourite thing).

Environmental issues are real to me.
Social issues.
World issues
But the difference is the way we approach the problem. My view is that a lot of solutions applied is tokenistic rubbish.

Trump was not the be all and end all. He was the guy that kicked the ball rolling and didn't submit easily to negative press. He was needed. Politicians can't continue to sit on the fence. Especially in world affairs at the moment.

My main complaint with the Obama administration

Sounds all good, except for 238,000 deaths from mismanagement by Chump.

He didn't need to start wars abroad, he just created one at home.

.0what of the population?

 

[moXJO]

Hang on Mo Trump kept claiming Obama was born in Kenya and was a Muslim.

It is typical of his time in power, how do keep the position Trump was hard done by in the media?

Are you saying they shouldn't call out his 10,000 to 20,000 untruths?

Should they have been more like FOX (who have called the election for Biden) and just be cringe worthy sycophants?

Im sorry did you call out Bidens endless lies ?

Trump was an overstater. Media often twisted a lot of what he said. And he also straight out said his opinion which was often not based on fact.

So if the media is the bastion of truth where were they critical of Biden? Because it was one way traffic.
Here's a few the media perpetrated:
Trump never denounced white supremacists.
The very fine people statement.
Russian collusion.
Be bloody consistent and objective. Thats not what journalists did though was it. It wasn't impartial at all. If anything journalists can't tell "wrong" news at the risk of being ostracised. Which is exactly what happened at the NYT.


So by the statement the media perpetrated thousands of lies across the globe to sway opinion.
One group of lies from a loud mouth. The other from organisations with an agenda.

Yeah sounds legit.

 

[basilio]

Too good to miss. Mitt Romney on Trumps Last Stand

Speaking to NBC’s Meet the Press, Romney referred to Biden as “president-elect”, something other Republicans have avoided. But he said he was not even going to try to talk Trump down from his insistence that he won the election.

“You’re not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days, apparently, of his presidency. He is who he is and he has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth, and so he’s going to keep on fighting until the very end.”

However, Romney acknowledged the harm the president’s obduracy was doing.

“Look, I know the eyes of the world are on us. The eyes of our own people are on the institutions that we have. The eyes of history are on us,” the Utah senator said.

Republicans back Trump challenge to Biden election victory

President refuses to concede defeat to Joe Biden as Republican allies rally behind him

www.theguardian.com

 

[moXJO]

Too good to miss. Mitt Romney on Trumps Last Stand

Speaking to NBC’s Meet the Press, Romney referred to Biden as “president-elect”, something other Republicans have avoided. But he said he was not even going to try to talk Trump down from his insistence that he won the election.

“You’re not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days, apparently, of his presidency. He is who he is and he has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth, and so he’s going to keep on fighting until the very end.”

However, Romney acknowledged the harm the president’s obduracy was doing.

“Look, I know the eyes of the world are on us. The eyes of our own people are on the institutions that we have. The eyes of history are on us,” the Utah senator said.

Republicans back Trump challenge to Biden election victory

President refuses to concede defeat to Joe Biden as Republican allies rally behind him

www.theguardian.com

I think the statement "You’re not going to change the nature of President Trump in these last days" is absolutely true.

This is nothing Al gore hasn't done. If anything it is the most American tradition. You don't just lay down and die if you believe an injustice has been done. However once the courts decide, you better pack your sht and leave.

 

[satanoperca]

Mo,

238K is deaths, are still absolute and not relative, he mismanaged the crisis from day one.

If you don't believe this is relevant, go and talk to all the family members of those that have died.

As for %, I agree, but that is irrelevant, it could have been significantly reduced.

I for one, still believe that Chump got played by China on this subject. He was just the dumb sucker who took the bait and in this case ignore it.

 

[moXJO]

Mo,

238K is deaths, are still absolute and not relative, he mismanaged the crisis from day one.

If you don't believe this is relevant, go and talk to all the family members of those that have died.

As for %, I agree, but that is irrelevant, it could have been significantly reduced.

I for one, still believe that Chump got played by China on this subject. He was just the dumb sucker who took the bait and in this case ignore it.

Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. He went above and beyond to provide help to NYC who greatly exaggerated how many ventilators they needed. And it was 10s of thousands surplus. NYC stuffed up big time.

Talks with a US company provided extra ventilators.

Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens.

China exported this to the world for whatever reason.

Trump could not get cohesive strategy because the divisiveness between Republican and Democrats.

That's off the top of my head.

I don't think he did a good job. I don't think Dan andrews or many others did a good job either.
But they didn't have to fight media and states every step of the way.

But the numbers are low compared to population. US has some real poverty. I'm surprised it wasn't more considering the freedom they still have from lockdowns.

 

[moXJO]

Oh and he was being impeached at the time over a farcical allegation.

 

[satanoperca]

" Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens. " Incorrect, you need to detail that statement a little more.

Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. " Excuses Excuses Excuses

" China exported this to the world for whatever reason. " What did he do about it, except for calling it a name. He had all the resources in the world, to make a stand, and all Chump man could do is call it a name.

"But the numbers are low compared to population. US has some real poverty. I'm surprised it wasn't more considering the freedom they still have from lockdowns. "
Maybe, I to can play with stats, but 238K dead is nearly x5 times the number of Americans that died in the Vietnam war.

So lets play some numbers to put it into perspective.
World War 11, US deaths approx 420K, Population at the time 132M.

So compared to WW11, it is currently less than 1/4 of the deaths adjusted, but the virus has not ended, by the time it is under control, I expect the figure to be around 400K, well still not as bad, but preventable.

 

[moXJO]

" Trump did shut down US borders at the start from China except US citizens. " Incorrect, you need to detail that statement a little more.

Again, the main bulk began in the Democrat states. " Excuses Excuses Excuses

" China exported this to the world for whatever reason. " What did he do about it, except for calling it a name. He had all the resources in the world, to make a stand, and all Chump man could do is call it a name.

"But the numbers are low compared to population. US has some real poverty. I'm surprised it wasn't more considering the freedom they still have from lockdowns. "
Maybe, I to can play with stats, but 238K dead is nearly x5 times the number of Americans that died in the Vietnam war.

So lets play some numbers to put it into perspective.
World War 11, US deaths approx 420K, Population at the time 132M.

So compared to WW11, it is currently less than 1/4 of the deaths adjusted, but the virus has not ended, by the time it is under control, I expect the figure to be around 400K, well still not as bad, but preventable.

How much as a % of the population. Playing with numbers is fun and all. But they are 9 or 10th on the list for deaths as a % of population. Making out they are the worst in the world is disingenuous.

 

[SirRumpole]

Trump could not get cohesive strategy because the divisiveness between Republican and Democrats.

That applies both ways.

Obamacare ?

Obama got elected twice on that mandate.

The Republicans blocked it.

Don't give Trump excuses that you are not prepared to give the other side.

 

[satanoperca]

Making out they are the worst in the world is disingenuous.

Firstly, don't be a Chump and make things up.

I did not and never have made out they are the worst in the world.

Repeat, don't be a Chump.

As a highly wealthy and rich nation, they have done appallingly. If you don't think so, go and talk to the 238K dead.

Repeat again, don't be a Chump, you are smarter than that, no need to make things up.

 

[moXJO]

That applies both ways.

Obamacare ?

Obama got elected twice on that mandate.

The Republicans blocked it.

Don't give Trump excuses that you are not prepared to give the other side.

Legislation is a little different to a pandemic.

Trump worked with the states at the initial stages.
Trump also failed in a lot of areas.



What excuses do we have for the above?
Cloth masks have been shown not to work either.

 

[moXJO]

Firstly, don't be a Chump and make things up.

I did not and never have made out they are the worst in the world.

Repeat, don't be a Chump.

As a highly wealthy and rich nation, they have done appallingly. If you don't think so, go and talk to the 238K dead.

Repeat again, don't be a Chump, you are smarter than that, no need to make things up.

Trying to make a situation appear worse than the numbers suggests looked to me to be exactly what it was. States are important in the decision making. You know, like how Victoria here didn't have scomo sending in the Feds to take over. The state had to handle it. Unfortunately the constitution protects US citizens from tyranny by the state.
The initial reaction was to slow. After that its a bit late to do anything.

238k dead. Yep everyone is to many. So point the finger from where they let it spread out across the world if you want to be serious. The same place that is currently tarrifing the hell out of us.

You and everyone can call Trump whatever be it media or politician. No repercussions.
Meanwhile look the wrong way at the power above and we suffer real world consequences.

 

[satanoperca]

Cloth masks have been shown not to work either.

I will not ask you to provide evidence, I will ask you a simple question:
If you were standing next to someone who has the virus, would you choose to wear a cloth face mask or none at all?

 

[moXJO]

I will not ask you to provide evidence, I will ask you a simple question:
If you were standing next to someone who has the virus, would you choose to wear a cloth face mask or none at all?

It is actually probably more dangerous wearing the cloth mask. Depending on handling and disposal in that situation.

They would have to wear it. And the effects according to studies show it does very little. The same reason that Dan andrews called for people to wear the n95 ones.
If anything it creates a false sense of protection.

I was of the opinion that they did protect you. But recently saw a study saying otherwise. Lines up with what dan done.

 

[moXJO]

Anyway time to start backing out of these threads. And I'll leave it at this.
Trump wasn't the threat that "groupthink" and "wrongthink" have become.

As I said: We are all basically centre on here arguing over slight leaning of left or right persuasions. It gets amplified online and we can disagree.

But we did all come together each of us in our own special way. All of us fought for a common cause, together and in harmony.
And that was to give Joe an ongoing headache. No matter how he begged or pleaded we held strong. No matter the changed format or threats of deletion, we persisted.
Pat yourselves on the back people as we truly merged into one tribe and shortened Joes life by ten years.