Two year temper tantrums

[BradK]

Its driving me nuts!!!

Its a full time job trying to stop little miss two year old from having a meltdown. Tantrums are long and often! 3 45 minute tantrums per day.

Any advice for frazzled parents? - other than suicide?? lol

Brad

 

[Judd]

Half a bottle of brandy and a slab of VB. The brandy is for the kid - either that or phernergen - and the VB for you.

 

[derty]

One reaction is to let them go off their nut and ignore them the best you can, once they realise that the tantrum is not getting mum's and dad's attention they may become less frequent and of less duration. Another is to try and pro-actively distract or diffuse the situation before it becomes volcanic.

You may also want to check what is in the food that you are feeding your kid. With our oldest we can feed her anything. With our youngest if she eats certain artificial colours or preservatives it is fair dinkum like someone has slipped her some drugs. Not able to concentrate or listen, hyperactive and mood extremes - crazy stuff. We noticed some big changes once we started to regulate some of what she ate.

good luck.

 

[BradK]

Thanks guys... tried the alcohol - scotch and coke, and coronas seem to go down well.

Her mum pretty well regulates what she eats - lots of vegetables, and next to no articficial stuff - her mum is a Jamie Oliver disciple and a chef!

Have tried ignoring her (last Sunday she started hitting her head! against the wall or floor after 45 minutes) - pretty hard to ignore that for long periods! Distraction works most of the time, but sometimes it just does not.

1. She was born 14 weeks early
2. She has just got back from 6 months in the UK and a 24 hour flight (3 weeks ago) - but, I think she'd be over the jetlag by now?

Maybe she is just at the age of pushing her boundaries but is doing it more forcefully than most???



Brad

 

[Whiskers]

Hi Brad

I agree with derty. That's the basic idea.

But sometimes, when the going gets tough, you need a bit more expertise on your side.

A good book on the subject that I would recommend is The Secret of Happy Children (Steve Biddulph, Bay Books, Australia.)

It has been around for quite awhile and revised and reprinted, so you should still be able to get it.

 

[Whiskers]

Brad, I thought I'd paraphrase the section on tantrums, since it sounds like your case is betting a bit serious, what with her banging her head. Don't want to see anyone getting hurt.

1. End the Payoffs
Never give a child what they want as the result of a tantrum.

2. Handle The Practicalities.
Do whatever you need to do to get through the tantrum. Ignore them, pick the child up and carry them to the car, their room or whereever.

3. Follow Up In a Big Way
Once the tantrum is over, let the child know they are in big trouble. Expressing anger in this way is just not on. They are to stay in the corner, or wherever you want them to be, until they can say sorry, say what they should have done. If it's a repeat performance explain and remove some privilages such as TV, toys, computer etc.

The idea is to make the discomfort for throwing a tantrum more severe for them so they realise it's not worth repeating a tantrum. Importantly though you should reward good behaviour to make it a much better alternative.

4. Spot Them Coming And Get In First
Remember when and where they throw tantrums and as soon as you see it coming on, get in first with a louder and firmer voice than normal. Don't wait until you get furious, pretend you already are.

5. Plan Better
Know when and where they throw tantrums. Train them as above and also by shorter times in that situation or avoiding it, eg if you can leave them with family or friends when you are busy or stressed such as very long shopping trips.

Hope that helps in the meantime Brad.

Another good book that deals with the wider issue of peoples behaviour in a family dynamic is You were born special beautiful and wonderful - What Happened? (Bert Weir, Weir Knightsbridge and Associates, Queensland)

 

[IFocus]

Steve Biddulph wrote an excellent book called Manhood opening line is 'Most men don't have a life' there are many males on the forum that would benefit from the lessons it has.............

 

[solomon]

Hey Brad, feeling your pain man. I've got a four year old and two year old as well and little miss can turn it on - occasionally we get a bit of head banging too. I'll tell you what we do, it might help.

Our approach is to send her to her room - we say "if you can't cope with life then you need to go to your room" (she has advanced language skills) Then sometimes she goes and sometimes I need to carry her and she will ... well .. writhe ... I think is the word, fall down, roll around, scream, bang her head etc

When she pokes her head out (still screaming) we send her back, if she comes out still crying we ask her if she is ready to calm down, if she says yes then we call her over, give her a cuddle and (recently) she seems to mostly get it together, but if she doesn't get it together and loses it again, then we send her back, and back, and back again until she gets it together. We don't expect a bright smiley face, just the yelling and screaming to have subsided - she can come out if she is still sobbing, because I reckon at 2 to get to this point is a massive achievement.

I think it is pretty important not to yell at a 2 year old (though I have) as they are emotionally not up to coping with that. So I tell mine clearly when she is naughty, when I'm cross, what is unacceptable behaviour, etc but I try not to yell - a by-product of this is that it means on the few occassions when i do yell it carries heaps of weight!

The other thing I've noticed is that we have to be absolutely consistent, and implement the same procedure. Mostly the process I've outlined has reduced the length of the tantrums (but not the severity) but things are manageable like this and we have to accept that sometimes we might be late if it means dealing with little miss. We are getting at least one a day and sometimes at inconvenient times.

That said, it doesn't last forever, they mostly grow out of it, our four year old isn't having many tantrums now.

I've coined a proverb.

Let your 2 year old tantrum now, or else they'll be tantrumming well beyond 22.

Hope some of this helps

 

[CAB SAV]

One of my sons' used to dummy spit big time around 5-7 yrs old. We used to send him to his room as punishment, then realised he wasn't being punished as he was so comfortable there surrounded by tv, electronic and other games,puzzles etc. Fixed that, sent him for 5min. time outs in my dunny, believe me, not sure if it was the boring environment, lack of space or smell, but he came good.

 

[Doris]

Brad, I thought I'd paraphrase the section on tantrums, since it sounds like your case is betting a bit serious, what with her banging her head. Don't want to see anyone getting hurt.

1. End the Payoffs
Never give a child what they want as the result of a tantrum.

2. Handle The Practicalities.
Do whatever you need to do to get through the tantrum. Ignore them, pick the child up and carry them to the car, their room or whereever.

4. Spot Them Coming And Get In First
Remember when and where they throw tantrums and as soon as you see it coming on, get in first with a louder and firmer voice than normal. Don't wait until you get furious, pretend you already are.

5. Plan Better
Know when and where they throw tantrums. Train them as above and also by shorter times in that situation or avoiding it, eg if you can leave them with family or friends when you are busy or stressed such as very long shopping trips.

Hope that helps in the meantime Brad.

Brad, 2-4 year olds are learning they are separate (individual) from their environment. e.g. taking a toy from them feels like their arm is being taken off. This is the "NO!" reaction they have... to feel they are an individual.

A huge problem is where parents think the child is actually trying "to be the boss" so they must assert their authority and make the child lose. It's essential to have a win/win outcome for her emotional and self-esteem development. IMO this is the cause of much physical and emotional abuse of toddlers.

Tantrums are their inability to control their emotions and this is the stage of learning to do this.

She needs you to be in control of your emotions when she is not, so your being angry only exacerbates her emotional state and actually terrifies her. She really needs to feel safe and secure when she can't control her emotions.

Whiskers' points above are spot on. You don't want to condition her to know that if she throws a tantrum in a store that you will give her what will pacify her!


When you see a tantrum building:

1. Divert attention e.g. excitedly point to the ceiling and say 'look at the spider/fairy...' then give a cuddle.
Their short attention span will often make them forget why they were getting frustrated.

2. Give her two choices, both of which you are happy with e.g. don't say it's time for your bath/dinner...
... she will say "NO!"
Instead: It's time for your bath. Do you want to wash yourself or will I do it?
...It's time for your dinner. Do you want to feed yourself or will I do it?

She will choose and thus feel in control and you have a win/win solution. "NO! Me do it!"
Make the task seem fun not an ordeal.
She inherently, at this age, wants to please you but the stage needs her to also feel in control.

I hope this helps. You sound a wonderful parent.

 

[nunthewiser]

Just sellem all for medical experiments

 

[Whiskers]

Brad, 2-4 year olds are learning they are separate (individual) from their environment. e.g. taking a toy from them feels like their arm is being taken off. This is the "NO!" reaction they have... to feel they are an individual.

A huge problem is where parents think the child is actually trying "to be the boss" so they must assert their authority and make the child lose. It's essential to have a win/win outcome for her emotional and self-esteem development. IMO this is the cause of much physical and emotional abuse of toddlers.

Tantrums are their inability to control their emotions and this is the stage of learning to do this.

She needs you to be in control of your emotions when she is not, so your being angry only exacerbates her emotional state and actually terrifies her. She really needs to feel safe and secure when she can't control her emotions.

Hi Doris

I don't dissagree with what you are saying except that in paraphrasing I think the main point of my point no 3, was probably not conveyed as fully as necessary.

Brad, I thought I'd paraphrase the section on tantrums,...

3. Follow Up In a Big Way
Once the tantrum is over, let the child know they are in big trouble. Expressing anger in this way is just not on. They are to stay in the corner, or wherever you want them to be, until they can say sorry, say what they should have done. If it's a repeat performance explain and remove some privilages such as TV, toys, computer etc.

The idea is to make the discomfort for throwing a tantrum more severe for them so they realise it's not worth repeating a tantrum. Importantly though you should reward good behaviour to make it a much better alternative.

CAB SAV is on the track of what I meant, but not so much as punishment but in the context conditioning the child that with rights and responsibilities comes consequences (good and bad).

One of my sons' used to dummy spit big time around 5-7 yrs old. We used to send him to his room as punishment, then realised he wasn't being punished as he was so comfortable there surrounded by tv, electronic and other games,puzzles etc. Fixed that, sent him for 5min. time outs in my dunny, believe me, not sure if it was the boring environment, lack of space or smell, but he came good.

The message conveyed should be if it's a repeat offence, is that if you break the rules there are consequences. Akin to a school withdrawing the right to go on a school excertion or representative sports event when the child breaks the school rules.

Also your method should be age specific... ie you would use more sophisticated language and systems for a young teenager than a two year old.

Originally Posted by Doris
Tantrums are their inability to control their emotions and this is the stage of learning to do this.

More specifically from a behavioural management perspective, tantrums are a function of a childs unmet needs... eg theyr'e bored, they feel unwanted or it gets them noticed.

Getting back to my point 3, a 2 year old child, as you say is becoming 'aware' of their enviornment. They won't really start to 'reason' well for themselves for another couple of years.

So the 2 yr old must learn that when a parent says 'STOP' or 'stay where you are' or 'stay right beside me always, that the child does respond immediately, without question and does exactly as required.

A classic case in point is crossing a road. Two year old children have little or no awareness or comprehension of road safety. At times like this, distracting their attention or giving them two choices is absolutely not an option. The child must be conditioned to do exactly as you say, immediately, without discussion when you give an instruction loaded with emotion and urgency.

So in summary removing toys, or other privilages must be used judiciously, if repeat tantrums occur in a measured manner, ie more severe consequences for more repeat tantrums.

Since two year olds have little comprehension ability, correct behavioural learning comes from repetition.

Also young children have very short attention spans, so any reaction/sanction needs to be swift to ensure the child relates the consequence to the behaviour.

 

[BradK]

Hi,

Many many thanks for the replies to you all. I think that there is some really good advice out there, and in fact, Mrs K saw the thread today for the first time and said, 'Are these traders?!'

I am certainly going to implement some of the advice, and probably find some strategies that Mrs K and I dont get so stressed out at each other also! Not good for the marriage Im afraid. Trying to hold everything together is a major struggle with a two year old who has constant tantys.

I think that if Mrs K and I give a consistent front, then, that should be a start.

Again, many thanks and I will keep you all posted on the success in the next little while hopefully!

Brad

 

[BradK]

I've coined a proverb.

Let your 2 year old tantrum now, or else they'll be tantrumming well beyond 22.

Hope some of this helps

Thanks Solomon - I wouldn't expect anything less of you to coin a proverb. Mrs and I are DETERMINED to do the hard work now so that 12 and 22 are not so bad. Makes your life miserable when they are so publicly chucking a spaz, doesnt it?

 

[BradK]

Brad, I thought I'd paraphrase the section on tantrums, since it sounds like your case is betting a bit serious, what with her banging her head. Don't want to see anyone getting hurt.

5. Plan Better
Know when and where they throw tantrums. Train them as above and also by shorter times in that situation or avoiding it, eg if you can leave them with family or friends when you are busy or stressed such as very long shopping trips.

Hope that helps in the meantime Brad.

Another good book that deals with the wider issue of peoples behaviour in a family dynamic is You were born special beautiful and wonderful - What Happened? (Bert Weir, Weir Knightsbridge and Associates, Queensland)

THanks so much for this Whiskers. I will definitely look for some of the books you suggested.

What is frustrating about this whole this is the lack of predictability. Do you know how much effort and tiring it is walking all day on egg shells, planning ahead, looking out for signs, only to see the tantrum come on so quickly?? Believe me, we put in the time, effort and look for signs, but she can turn on a dime...

First they disempower you, then they defeat you! Lol

Brad

 

[BradK]

Just sellem all for medical experiments

Thanks for your contribution. However, we might keep the kid..... errrr... how much would I get by the way??

 

[BradK]

One of my sons' used to dummy spit big time around 5-7 yrs old. We used to send him to his room as punishment, then realised he wasn't being punished as he was so comfortable there surrounded by tv, electronic and other games,puzzles etc. Fixed that, sent him for 5min. time outs in my dunny, believe me, not sure if it was the boring environment, lack of space or smell, but he came good.

Great work! Although, I am afraid she would BANG HER head on the Royal Dalton!

 

[BradK]

She needs you to be in control of your emotions when she is not, so your being angry only exacerbates her emotional state and actually terrifies her. She really needs to feel safe and secure when she can't control her emotions.

2. Give her two choices, both of which you are happy with e.g. don't say it's time for your bath/dinner...
... she will say "NO!"
Instead: It's time for your bath. Do you want to wash yourself or will I do it?
...It's time for your dinner. Do you want to feed yourself or will I do it?

She will choose and thus feel in control and you have a win/win solution. "NO! Me do it!"
Make the task seem fun not an ordeal.
She inherently, at this age, wants to please you but the stage needs her to also feel in control.

Thanks Doris. I am really like your advice and I am going to apply this second piece of advice starting in the morning when the tantys start. She only had one today, thank Christ.

Cheers
Brad

 

[johenmo]

BradK - my two eldest are girls and are now 22 and 18. We've travelled a lot for work over the last 25 years. There will be more "behaviour episodes" adn any subsequent children can be very different.

Doris has good advice. You two as parents must be consistent (both singularly and as a team) and calm throughout this - which is what solomon says. This is Sooooooooooo important. But you do have to let them know that it;s not acceptabel via tone - a fine line but it does work.

Also try to recall events leading up to the tantrum, if it's a similar period or periods of the day. Routine in their lives at this age is very important. We use books and reading together with our 3 kids if they were starting to get stroppy. Worked for us.

Raising kids is bit like trading - you have to wrap your head around what it is you're in, and develop different strategies for different sets of conditions.

You've got a new environment (3 weeks old) and that can unsettle children.

As for books - I think it was Peneolpe Leach - You Baby and child or something like that we were given by someone with 6 girls. It was good ina ll sorts of ways. Good luck

 

[grace]

Triple P programs are fantastic and free for parents. Here is the website and there are courses run all over the place. They cater for new parents, and parents of teenagers etc. They can be in depth, or shorter format.

http://www10.triplep.net/?pid=58

There are plenty of free downloads and tips.

Here is one

http://www.triplep.net/files/pdf/PPP_Top10Tips.pdf

Here is one just for toddlers

http://www.triplep.net/cicms/assets/pdfs/pg1as100gr5so129.pdf