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TSLA - Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ)

The thing is no one really knows when the next big down turn is, Berkshire is kind of an each way bet, it’s a big bag of good businesses producing steady cash flow, but also a growing pile of cash getting ready to deploy.

I am not trading Berkshire, I pretty much am a buy and hold on Berkshire for my life, with the idea that I use it as a compounding machine that I might draw down on one day if my other assets or super are exhausted.
 
It’s the total amount I find repugnant.
 
It’s the total amount I find repugnant.
That's fair enough, obviously 72% of shareholders don't agree with you.
I know some CEO' and company directors, I feel should have been chucked in the can, they move from company to company destroying value yet still pull a salary.
It takes all kinds, at least Musk has value added, I wouldn't have minded owning the shares back in 2018 and if I did I would have agreed with the bonus.
If I had bought them recently, I probably wouldn't be happy with the bonus, it all depends on the individuals circumstances 28% aren't happy probably a lot of them haven't made much yet.
Who knows
 
That's fair enough, obviously 72% of shareholders don't agree with you.
you have to remember in that 72% figure are a lot of people that voted yes for many reasons that are not rational, eg...

1, Because they are fan boys.
2, they saw it as government interference and just vote against that even against their own self interest.
3, They don't actually understand the numbers.
4, they think stock options are free.
5, they responded to the fear mongering nature of the letter to share holders.
6. they chairman of the board voted their shares.

I could see on all the Tesla you tube channels etc I follow, people that know a lot about cars but zero about finances were heavily ramping the vote yes campaign.

28% of share holders voting against a CEO pay package is still a huge deal, any rational board would take that as a big kick in the butt. I remember the coca-cola board of directors changing their pay deal because a higher number of votes came in as "abstain" than normal.
 
@sptrawler

Compare Musk accepting this pay packet to they way real share holder friendly Managers like Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger think, They wrote this in the "owners Manual" for their shares back in the day, and lived it from then on.

"Charlie and I cannot promise you results. But we can guarantee that your financial fortunes will move in lockstep with ours for whatever period of time you elect to be our partner. We have no interest in large salaries or options or other means of gaining an "edge" over you. We want to make money only when our partners do and in exactly the same proportion. Moreover, when I do something dumb, I want you to be able to derive some solace from the fact that my financial suffering is proportional to yours."

To me Musk is now forever tainted, he has sold down his Tesla stock to run off and play games at Twitter/X and then panicked that his voting interest declined, and then clipped all the other share holders to claw back his holding again.

Tesla no longer meets number 3 in the value investing check list anymore, yes musk has talent, but he lacks integrity in my opinion.

 

It’s like the YES referendum, 71% said NO. But the 29% act as if the majority didn’t understand what the vote was about, and that the 71% where either tricked or are ignorant.

It’s always the loud left socialist minority crying and not accepting the outcome. It’s gone too far, and is now affecting the prosperity of 1st world nations while third world countries like China and Indonesia watch with a smile and continue following the old ways.

Personally I’m over it. It’s ok for governments to tax us for their ridiculous greening policies but ok for India and China to build coal fired power stations for another 100 years. It’s ok for government to blow tax dollars on unfinished projects but no good for shareholders to vote against the grain because it hurts some soft lefties feelings.

The first world has gone mad.
 
Are you comparing an investment vehicle, with a development vehicle and fund managers, with visionary leader of product development and direction?
Investing in existing companies and technologies and having a fairly benign role, as opposed to be a person who actively invests in and is pivotal in new ideas, technology and social medium, I would have thought he would consume and require far more personal money.
As Twitter has shown.
Musk is a wild card, most of the sharholders are true believers, time will tell.

From the article:
It's not clear just how long Musk believes it will take Tesla to hit $25 trillion valuation. During the call, the CEO agreed with recent price targets published by Cathie Wood, CEO of ARK Invest. Wood's targets would set a price of around $2,600 per share by 2029—making its market cap around $8 trillion—and was a prediction based on Tesla's yet-to-launch robotaxi business being successful.

The stock closed at $183.57 on Thursday.

Divesting Tesla into multiple different business units seems to be the key to its perceived value. From energy storage to solar—and soon robotaxis, robots, and rolling data centers—investors see Tesla as more of a tech company that builds cars. In a recent note by a J.P. Morgan analyst, investors were worried that Tesla could be valued like "just another automaker" if CEO Elon Musk's pay package were to fail and he was to depart the company.

It's hard to overstate just how ambitious of a goal this is. However, Musk believes that Tesla's upper hand is being able to move more quickly than other companies and ultimately produce a superior product. The automaker predicts it will have "a few thousand" Optimus robots performing various tasks in its factories by the end of 2025. Then again, "end of the year" is often code for "at some point, maybe" in Muskworld.
 
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I am comparing a share holder friendly way of operating a business, eg Berkshire Hathaway vs a company that had a management trying to extract as many billions as they can.

Whether the tech involved is cutting edge or not is besides the point,

1, both Warren and Elon came to investors asking for money they can take away and build their dream company.

2, Both Warren and Elon used that money effectively and grew a company that made their personal stock holding in that company grow in value to 100’s of Billions.

3, But only Elon, not happy with simply have his own shares grow to be worth hundreds of billions, set up a pay deal to clip 15% of the value of every other share holder that put their money in a super high risk.

As I said, I have no issue with management of any company being paid for their labour, but at a certain point it goes beyond rational pay and is just ripping off the other non managing owners.

Remember Tesla has never earned $56 Billion, and the share price is a high as it is not just because of the work Elon did in the past that he deserves to be paid for, it’s high because people expect the company to keep growing, so essentially he is being paid for growth that hasn’t actually happened yet.
 
This is the last thing I will say on the matter, but Charlie said it best at the start of this video.

 
As I said, I don't have any so it doesn't bother me one way or the other, 72% of shareholders decided he is worth the money. Obviously 28% didn't think so, pretty well end of story.
That's how shareholder votes work,if you don't like it, sell. Simple really.
 
Some interesting information from ARK Invest on Tesla. They were the only investment group that picked Tesla's value right at the beginning, when prices where super low.

Last Thursday, Tesla held its Annual Shareholder Meeting, during which shareholders approved for a second time Elon Musk’s 2018 CEO Performance Award.3 In our view, Elon’s leadership will be critical to Tesla as transportation evolves from human centric to autonomous during the next three to four years. Based on his 2018 agreement, Elon will not be able to cash in on his options for five years post exercise, securing his leadership at Tesla during a transformation that we believe will be more meaningful than the ramp of the Model 3.
During the shareholder meeting, Elon noted that the company’s Full-Self Driving (FSD) software has eliminated nearly all collisions with static objects, with each software update improving performance up to ~10x. Recently, Tesla released FSD v12.4 to a limited number of customers, removing the steering wheel nag and enabling limited hands-free rides.

 
@JohnDe they haven't included starlink and space X in the chart, cars will be a pimple on a gnats bum of Tesla's income IMO.
Telstra is signing up Starlink, so has Carnival Cruise line, people want mobile internet not fixed line which is another discussion I had when the NBN was announced (another brain fart due to explode, but is another thread).
 
Star link and space X are not part of Tesla.

When you buy Tesla shares, you buy the Tesla company only, all of Musks other businesses are private companies with separate shareholders.
 
@JohnDe

Tesla definitely has some big growth opportunities, the question I have is how much of this growth will accrue to the benefit of shareholders, and how much will be clipped by management?

I ran some numbers last night to see what would have happened if Warren Buffett had accepted a similar deal to Musk, Berkshire Hathaway is currently worth $875 Billion, and Warren Buffett owns 37% of it, But if he had the same deal Musk had, over the years he would have increased his ownership to over 95%, making him the richest guy on earth by far, but at the expense of his partners that trusted him.

The does come a point when you wonder why a Billionaire, especially one with such a loyal following of small retail investors like musk, would want to accept such large pay packets and not be happy to just be paid hundreds of millions and let the rest accrue to the little guys that supported you from the start.
 
He needed the cashbto pay for Twitter(X).
Mick
 
He needed the cashbto pay for Twitter(X).
Mick

As well as to keep funding his other projects, like SpaceX. He wants humans on Mars in his lifetime, and that project takes a lot of R&D dollars.

Elon is the only person in the world with the vision and the funding to have a real go at getting humans into the next stage of exploration and colonisation.

As the famous quote says, "Space, the final frontier".

Space travel and exploration has been in my dreams since I was first able to read novels in Primary School. I doubt that I will ever get the chance to travel in space, but I believe that I will see the first living quarters built on another planet. With Elon's vision and his wealth, the possibilities are much closer.

 
It's a new world VC, haven't you noticed, it is all about the "ME" now.
No matter what the issue, no matter what the cause, no matter what the social implications, everyone now feels their personal belief and ideology is paramount to everyone else'.
That's why vocal minorities are maneuvering the herd, the real problem is the vocal minority are actually growing in number, so investing will become more and more difficult.
Musk is looking after Musk, the small shareholders are hoping he will make them rich, it isn't something I'm comfortable investing in but doesn't mean it isn't a good investment.
You just have to believe a lot in Musk, he now has a lot of say in what Tesla buy and sell, not unlike FMG another of your favorites.
 
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