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TSLA - Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ)

The problem is, the apple products, although mostly wonderfully technically advanced, are priced much higher than the plebs wish to pay.
Apple has always had a base of loyal followers (I was one , somewhat less so now), but its market penetration has remained static for years.
They will appeal to the young and well heeled, but for the poorer majority, they will settle for cheaper samsung phone or tablet, and a chromebook for home browsing.
I suspect that tesla will be the same, especially as they will be undercut by cheaper Chinese products that the bottom 75% of the population buy purely on price.
Mick
For sure. But like Apple, Tesla will be able to charge a premium.
Samsung is just as good as Apple but can't charge as much. In fact I would argue they have led Apple on many fronts that has forced Apple to match them e.g. offer screens that don't break easily (like Samsung already had).
BMW charges a premium for a car that isn't as reliable as a Toyota. If Tesla are smart, they can stay on top for years.
 
And now for some good and bad news for Tesla.
Firstly, the bad news.
Tesla has had to recall 360,000 vehicles over issues with the autonomous driving.
from NHTSA

Now for the good news.
From Elektrek

It would seem that the old adage, "price matters" even applies to Teslas.
Mick

Why is that bad news?

I suppose if it was one of the traditional vehicle manufacturers it would be bad news, because they would have ot have all the vehicles recalled to a dealership for a manual and costly fix.

However, being a Tesla vehicle with a software update, all that is required is an over the air update while the car is at home and the owner is sleeping.
 
For sure. But like Apple, Tesla will be able to charge a premium.
Samsung is just as good as Apple but can't charge as much. In fact I would argue they have led Apple on many fronts that has forced Apple to match them e.g. offer screens that don't break easily (like Samsung already had).
BMW charges a premium for a car that isn't as reliable as a Toyota. If Tesla are smart, they can stay on top for years.

I don't know about your comment 'Samsung can't charge as much'. Have you looked at the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra at $2,249.00
 
The problem is, the apple products, although mostly wonderfully technically advanced, are priced much higher than the plebs wish to pay.
Apple has always had a base of loyal followers (I was one , somewhat less so now), but its market penetration has remained static for years.
They will appeal to the young and well heeled, but for the poorer majority, they will settle for cheaper samsung phone or tablet, and a chromebook for home browsing.
I suspect that tesla will be the same, especially as they will be undercut by cheaper Chinese products that the bottom 75% of the population buy purely on price.
Mick

It's true Apple sells less phones and Tablets than Samsung, but Apple makes more money than Samsung (from phones and tablets), and has a much higher market cap than Samsung. So as a Tesla shareholder I would much rather see them take after Apple more than Samsung.

Sell less stuff at a higher profit margin is a good business model, you don't always want to be competing for every last drop of market share at the expense of destroying your profit margin, let the low end guys do what they do, being the preferred product of the middle class and aboveis the best place to be.
 
Yeah Collector, There was a lot in it. I was in a position to have an ear to it for three odd hours. Without going to the redux above just one take out was the sub $1k power train with no rare earths: what was the name of Charlie Browne's mate with the blanket.
Where TSLA goes others will follow.
 
"Tesla is likely to deliver on interdependent actions that should reduce vehicle costs by ~50% during the next five years. First, it will produce 100% of the controllers on its next generation vehicle. Second, it will switch to a 48-volt battery architecture that should reduce power losses by 16-fold. Third, it will use local ethernet-connected controllers to reduce the complexity of the wiring harness. These electrical architecture changes should cut costs and give Tesla more control over its supply chain at the component level. They also will enable Tesla to transition its manufacturing to a parallel assembly process, slashing its manufacturing footprint and wasted time by 40% and 30%, respectively."

Tesla’s Investor Day Offered No Flash, All Substance​

llustration_Tasha%20Keeney_Final_Circle%20400%20px.png

By Tasha Keeney | @TashaARK
Director of Investment Analysis & Institutional Strategies​
This piece was co-authored by Sam Korus, Director of Research, Autonomous Technology & Robotics.
Despite mixed reviews of Tesla’s Investor Day last week, ARK’s Tasha Keeney and Sam Korus found no shortage of important and exciting news. While many investors expected a flashy glimpse of its next generation vehicle, we believe Tesla shared news more profound than a product prototype: the roadmap for continuous cost declines associated with scaling production.

In our view, Tesla is likely to deliver on interdependent actions that should reduce vehicle costs by ~50% during the next five years. First, it will produce 100% of the controllers on its next generation vehicle. Second, it will switch to a 48-volt battery architecture that should reduce power losses by 16-fold. Third, it will use local ethernet-connected controllers to reduce the complexity of the wiring harness. These electrical architecture changes should cut costs and give Tesla more control over its supply chain at the component level. They also will enable Tesla to transition its manufacturing to a parallel assembly process, slashing its manufacturing footprint and wasted time by 40% and 30%, respectively.

By reducing its factory footprint, Tesla will be able to accelerate Gigafactory production, increasing the scaling velocity of both its fleet and its data engine. Tesla’s fleet currently drives more than 120 million miles per day in total and ~100 million in full self-driving (FSD) with its most advanced driver assistance. In contrast, Cruise and Waymo each has attained one million miles driven cumulatively with no one behind the wheel on public roads. While not a perfect comparison, relative to its autonomous driving competition, Tesla vehicles have traveled ~100X the cumulative miles and have collected ~50,000X the data. According to our research, data will be critical in the race to create and scale a fully autonomous taxi service.

In short, Tesla’s vertical integration seems to have given the company an edge that may take its less-integrated competitors years—if ever—to replicate. Don’t be fooled by tepid reviews.​
 
"Tesla is likely to deliver on interdependent actions that should reduce vehicle costs by ~50% during the next five years. First, it will produce 100% of the controllers on its next generation vehicle. Second, it will switch to a 48-volt battery architecture that should reduce power losses by 16-fold. Third, it will use local ethernet-connected controllers to reduce the complexity of the wiring harness. These electrical architecture changes should cut costs and give Tesla more control over its supply chain at the component level. They also will enable Tesla to transition its manufacturing to a parallel assembly process, slashing its manufacturing footprint and wasted time by 40% and 30%, respectively."
What voltage does it presently run at?
I would have thought at least 24V. 16 fold reduction in losses does not sound correct.
 
What voltage does it presently run at?
I would have thought at least 24V. 16 fold reduction in losses does not sound correct.
12V, because that was the dominant voltage system used by all vehicle manufacturers. Using what is available is a lot cheaper than designing & manufacturing a product that only one company could use. Now that Tesla have brought down the cost of EV manufacturing significantly and production numbers keep increasing they can look at other aspects of design that was not practical before.
 
What voltage does it presently run at?
I would have thought at least 24V. 16 fold reduction in losses does not sound correct.
I got the impression that they were talking about each individual cell of a tesla battery pack.
Currently, each cell runs at about 3.7 volts, lets say 4 volts, so if they use 48 volt cells, instead of 3.7, it means they need fewer cells to get the storage capacity they need. As each cell is monitored for charge, temperature, and a few other things, there is a constant balancing game going on. So to go from around 4 volts to 48 volts is a 12 fold increase in size, but there is probably a significant decrease in intercell pathways where losses occur.
There are currently two main categories of cell in production, namely the 18650, and the 21700. The former is the older of the two.
The 21700 are larger and more efficient cells, but amazingly are cheaper to produce than their 18650 cousins. but according to Tesla, it’s about 40 percent bigger in volume, in fact, but also up to 15 percent more efficient than the 18650 cells.

Mick
 
I got the impression that they were talking about each individual cell of a tesla battery pack.
Currently, each cell runs at about 3.7 volts, lets say 4 volts, so if they use 48 volt cells, instead of 3.7, it means they need fewer cells to get the storage capacity they need. As each cell is monitored for charge, temperature, and a few other things, there is a constant balancing game going on. So to go from around 4 volts to 48 volts is a 12 fold increase in size, but there is probably a significant decrease in intercell pathways where losses occur.
There are currently two main categories of cell in production, namely the 18650, and the 21700. The former is the older of the two.
The 21700 are larger and more efficient cells, but amazingly are cheaper to produce than their 18650 cousins. but according to Tesla, it’s about 40 percent bigger in volume, in fact, but also up to 15 percent more efficient than the 18650 cells.

Mick

You may be on the right track, and I’m confusing myself with another article I’ve been reading.
 
What voltage does it presently run at?
I would have thought at least 24V. 16 fold reduction in losses does not sound correct.
I think are talking about the lead acid battery, it runs at 12 volts I believe, so they are increasing the voltage by 4, which apparently is a 16 fold reduction in losses.
 
I got the impression that they were talking about each individual cell of a tesla battery pack.
Currently, each cell runs at about 3.7 volts, lets say 4 volts, so if they use 48 volt cells, instead of 3.7, it means they need fewer cells to get the storage capacity they need. As each cell is monitored for charge, temperature, and a few other things, there is a constant balancing game going on. So to go from around 4 volts to 48 volts is a 12 fold increase in size, but there is probably a significant decrease in intercell pathways where losses occur.
There are currently two main categories of cell in production, namely the 18650, and the 21700. The former is the older of the two.
The 21700 are larger and more efficient cells, but amazingly are cheaper to produce than their 18650 cousins. but according to Tesla, it’s about 40 percent bigger in volume, in fact, but also up to 15 percent more efficient than the 18650 cells.

Mick
No they are talking about the lead acid battery, its switching to a 48 volt lithium Ion battery.

Remember we were talking on here a few months back about Teslas still having a lead acid battery that requires changing after 4 years or so when it wears out, well they are changing that to a lithium ion battery pack that will last many times longer perhaps the life of the vehicle.
 
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I think are talking about the lead acid battery, it runs at 12 volts I believe, so they are increasing the voltage by 4, which apparently is a 16 fold reduction in losses.
Ok, makes sense. Current reduces by 4. Current squared by resistance is your losses.

But if they are just talking the lead acid battery then it's only supplying I guess the instruments and maybe the AirCon so I can't imagine the cable losses would be much.

Good move though. Another edge on the other car manufacturers.
 
Ok, makes sense.
But if they are just talking the lead acid battery then it's only supplying I guess the instruments and maybe the AirCon so I can't imagine the cable losses would be much.
Good move though. Another edge on the other car manufacturers.
Here is the part of the presentation where they are talking about the electrics, battery talk starts at 14:15 mark, and the talking about the new electric system starts at the 16 minute marks. I am not an electrical engineer but they are talking about the car having 300 items that run on the system, and the new system not having to have heat sinks and weighing 17 kgs less etc

 
Here is the part of the presentation where they are talking about the electrics, battery talk starts at 14:15 mark, and the talking about the new electric system starts at the 16 minute marks. I am not an electrical engineer but they are talking about the car having 300 items that run on the system, and the new system not having to have heat sinks etc


48V is slowly becoming standard for LED lighting and electronic control gear. 12V is a pain to run any distance due to volt drop (and losses) and copper is expensive.
I suppose as more equipment has become available it has allowed Tesla to upgrade.

I know one company that is now running at 600V DC to allow long runs (800m) but that isn't required in a car.
 
No they are talking about the lead acid battery, its switching to a 48 volt lithium Ion battery.

Remember we were talking on here a few months back about Teslas still having a lead acid battery that requires changing after 4 years or so when it wears out, well they are changing that to a lithium ion battery pack that will last many times longer perhaps the life of the vehicle.
My appologies, I reviewed the vid and you are correct.
mick
 
My appologies, I reviewed the vid and you are correct.
mick
Not about batteries in the Teslas but saw on the TV news tonight that Tesla is having major problems with the steering wheel parting company with the steering shaft. A most important bolt either missing or comes adrift causing the steering wheel to float free.
Wouldn't that be great at speed.
 
Good video on multitude of reasons why Tesla is leading


my view is Tesla has acquired the luxury trendy flag and will keep it, so a bit like Apple vs PC/Android;
You will pay more for the same but have prestige attached and a few unique ways to force your habitsand prevent changing tribe..already there as you read this thread :)
Good on them..
I will stick to the cheaper and soon cheaper or/yet top leading edge Chinese or Asian brand when available.

I will never forget when Apple released their earth chattering face recognition on IOS to unlock etc the iPhones, whereas I had been using this features for 3 years on a so much cheaper HTC..
I expect Tesla will be the same once they lose their edge, via copycat or just bad luck or bad commercial decision,
->stick to being the premium brand
Tesla should remain premium and NOT sell cheap EVs , but I do not own shares right now so do not really care :)
If they commit commercial suicide selling good cheap EVS I will join the masses and buy!
 
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