Trading The SPI - NON-Gann Techniques

[Joolean]

Hi all,

Can I ask what tools you use to live trade the SPI? I'm just curious as to whether you use one charting program like eSignal to monitor the market and another to trade it or do you just use your broker's platform?

If two separate programs, do they line up ok in real time? I'm with CMC and don't particularly like its charts but I don't imagine it would line up with esignal data anyway.

I use Amibroker for testing but am pretty sure you can't trade the SPI with it. I'm trying out NinjaTrader because AB doesn't have market profile but don't know if you can trade the spi with that either.

I'm an eod trader and don't intend live trading futures for months but am just trying to work out what tools I will need to use so I can start on the right track.

Any advice appreciated. Cheers,
Julian.

 

[acouch]

Morning joolean,

the cheapest set up for trading spi or other markets via broker is the combo of
www.interactivebrokers.com
www.sierrachart.com
www.bracket-trader.com

i also use ig and cmc sometimes, and i have all my charts set up the same way,

cfd's dont exactly follow the fut to a tee..eg: movment..but close enough,
and i tend to watch the fut first.

but the main thing in trading that you must be comfortable with your tools that you choose to use .i have also knocked back brokers if there trading platform doesnt suit me.
like everything..it is trial and error till you find what suits.
have a great day
ac

 

[julius]

J,

I have live traded the SPI using Amibroker and Interactive Brokers TWS...it works fine.

I'm using Fib Trader now with IB data feed and it is very very good. It does all of the intraday & EOD charting that I use.

I counldn't afford to buy it so I rent at 45USD per month.

 

[Trembling Hand]

If two separate programs, do they line up ok in real time? I'm with CMC and don't particularly like its charts but I don't imagine it would line up with esignal data anyway.

The problem with CMC charts is they include all the overnight data. That may or may not be of any use to you. Depends

Also I think the open high low close values on a daily chart aren't going to be what 99% of SPI traders are using.

AND the actual values are some arbitrary number that they peg to the SPI. If the SPI is 5500 the CMC value is 5467. Just a bit weird as round numbers are of some value/attraction.

AND you don't get Volume, Depth or order book.

 

[AMR]

What a boring day on the SPI today. I'm going over to watch the HSI.

I think the CMC platform is ok for learning but I really do wish they would let us place stops simultaneously with orders and give us a better way to adjust stops. Currently contemplating a switch to IB.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Incredibly boring, and hard to trade

Wouldn't be surprised to see it up close higher in the afternoons all this week. Just to annoy the Bears.

 

[acouch]

good morning all
today's road map
have a great day and good trading
ac

 

[acouch]

good morning all
today's road map
have a great day, and good trading
ac

 

[Joolean]

Thanks for your feedback guys. Much appreciated.

I'll look into the IB/Amibroker setup.

Do you guys generally place limit/stop orders or do you just wait for the right time and hit buy/sell for market orders? I.e. Do you know where your orders are going to go ahead of time via s/r or just play it as it unfolds?

Lastly, would any of you care to comment on the differences between the SPI and the US index futures in terms of behaviour? Is the main difference just volume or do you find the SPI more erratic and less pattern friendly?
I'm studying market profile and all charts are US based so am trying to work out how relevant they are to our SPI.

The chart is the daily range from 2006-2007. The last bar just shows there were ~20 days with > 150pt daily range.

 

[Freddo]

Looking for another short tomorrow

 

[Freddo]

Thanks for your feedback guys. Much appreciated.

I'll look into the IB/Amibroker setup.

Do you guys generally place limit/stop orders or do you just wait for the right time and hit buy/sell for market orders? I.e. Do you know where your orders are going to go ahead of time via s/r or just play it as it unfolds?

Hi Jooelan,

I use Tradestation for intraday scalping. I typically only scalp the morning and from what I can tell from TH's posts he uses a similar method simple patterns and Depth of Market. I don't use limit or on stop orders for scalps. I don't even use a stop loss, takes too long a trade is often seconds 2 or 3 minutes max for my scalps. So this is played as it unfolds.

My scalping is really intense I don't know how TH does it, I find after around 3 hours I am so charged up I start chasing my own tail!

For my EOD I use Metastock and I do place limit, on stop and stop loss orders. Usually hold for 2 to 3 days. I often use Sycom to take a profit.
This is definitely a case of knowing where the market needs to be well ahead of time.

I am currently trying to port/convert my Metastock and Tradestation code to
Amibroker.

Regards

Freddo

 

[Edwood]

hi Joolean - I use CMC for charts & IB for execution, only because I came from CMC and am familiar with their charts so haven't bothered going into detail with anything else. The price doesn't usually match up b/w SPI and CMC's Aussie 200 - but the price action is pretty much exactly the same which is all that matters. I tried Amibroker with IB but found the erratic backfilling too annoying

Lately I've been spending most of my time with FTSE (Z) - the spreads are usually only 0.5 while SPI has been getting up to 4pts at times. FTSE opening 90 mins is worth a look

cheers

 

[Trembling Hand]

Edwood you should give Ninja Trader a go. Its Free and neat yet has every thing. I can't believe you still us CMC charts your missing volume and getting all the SYCOM gumf.

Joolean I use Bracket orders for all my trades. Entries are 50/50 Limit vs Market. 70/30 Limit vs Market on exits. I guess it depends on your target and the market. If your looking for 25 or more points there doesn't seem to be much advantage in trying to get filled on Limit you might as well just hit the Market. But if your looking for 5 points then working the Bid/Ask spread is going to be 30% of your profit. Yet I still hit the market 50% of the time. Which I'm always trying to reduce. My stats are 60% of wining trades have some sort of Adverse Movement against me. But most of the Bigger wins are Market entries.

 

[Edwood]

Edwood you should give Ninja Trader a go. Its Free and neat yet has every thing. I can't believe you still us CMC charts your missing volume and getting all the SYCOM gumf.

I did download Ninja TH but it had some bad reviews so I didn't take any time getting to know it - will take a decent look at it

 

[Trembling Hand]

I did download Ninja TH but it had some bad reviews so I didn't take any time getting to know it - will take a decent look at it

Download the latest version. Its got some added features for non US markets.

 

[AMR]

What a great opening today, pity CMC kept telling me I could not trade right on the opening due to my order being too small . Anyone else had this?

Trembling Hand, how do you manage your stops?

 

[Joolean]

Thanks again all.

I have read a lot of complaints on forums about IB but mostly due to their data not being actual tick data. Have always read that eSignal are better because of this, though more expensive. Is anyone using both and do the prices match up?

Are IB a cfd market maker like CMC or do you trade the actual spi with them? I.e. minimum trade size ~$140k or whatever a contract costs at the moment.

Amibroker is excellent for systems testing and analysis Freddo though it does have its limitations. Have used it for a couple of years after coming from wealth lab so let me know if I can help at all, though the AB Yahoo forum is very good.

TH, I downloaded Ninja trader a week ago and have not been able to import my historical SPI data as a future. It always comes in as stock data. I have two years of tick data from TickData. Can you offer any advice on this? Have tried lots of things.

For Freddo and TH, did you guys start off scalping as many trades as you are now because that was your system, or did you modify your system over time so that you could take more trades?

Regards,
Julian

 

[professor_frink]

Thanks again all.

I have read a lot of complaints on forums about IB but mostly due to their data not being actual tick data. Have always read that eSignal are better because of this, though more expensive. Is anyone using both and do the prices match up?

Are IB a cfd market maker like CMC or do you trade the actual spi with them? I.e. minimum trade size ~$140k or whatever a contract costs at the moment.

Amibroker is excellent for systems testing and analysis Freddo though it does have its limitations. Have used it for a couple of years after coming from wealth lab so let me know if I can help at all, though the AB Yahoo forum is very good.

TH, I downloaded Ninja trader a week ago and have not been able to import my historical SPI data as a future. It always comes in as stock data. I have two years of tick data from TickData. Can you offer any advice on this? Have tried lots of things.

For Freddo and TH, did you guys start off scalping as many trades as you are now because that was your system, or did you modify your system over time so that you could take more trades?

Regards,
Julian

Forums are full of people whinging about IB, I wouldn't read too much into that. I find their datafeed fine for intraday trading.

If you want to find out a little more on how they do their data, have a read of this -

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53426

There are a couple of links in that thread that will explain things a little further.

IB are a broker, not a MM. You'll be trading the SPI with them.

 

[Trembling Hand]

TH, I downloaded Ninja trader a week ago and have not been able to import my historical SPI data as a future. It always comes in as stock data. I have two years of tick data from TickData. Can you offer any advice on this? Have tried lots of things.

Not sure I know what you mean about stock vs futures in NT?

For Freddo and TH, did you guys start off scalping as many trades as you are now because that was your system, or did you modify your system over time so that you could take more trades?

Slowly moved towards scalping from intraday position trading.

Trembling Hand, how do you manage your stops?

What do you mean manage? I have bracket orders in IB booktrader or ZLT that have a target limit and a Stop Market. But will take myself out lots of times before it hits my stop.

 

[macca]

Hi AMR,

yes, I copped it with CMC too, software glitch I suppose.

Hopefully we are back in business tomorrow