Trading The SPI - NON-Gann Techniques

[waza1960]

My first day no trades so far.......
But I'm staying for the night session so we'll see.
Very low volume today.Markets probably waiting for earnings from US for a direction.
I seem to have settled in well for the first day seem to be up to speed with the T/A just got to pick up Trade craft now

 

[nielsend]

Hi Tech,
I managed to land a professional futures trading job which I start on monday and I will be trading the SPI only10 min chart 10 contracts/trade.
There's hope for us 50 yr olds+ yet .I feel very lucky to get the chance I would work for nothing just for the knowledge.
I 'll let you know how I go after I settle in.

Hey Waza, how's the trading coming along? Any chance you can keep us posted?

 

[waza1960]

Hey Waza, how's the trading coming along? Any chance you can keep us posted?

My results so far: Week 1 36ticks profit
Week 2 6 ticks profit
Today start of Week 3 11ticks profit.
Some details: I work in a small office with one other trader who supervises me.I have two screens he has 4 screens I use the Esignal Profit Source platform and have CNBC on in work hours.
Week 1 Profits were 80% the work of the supervisor with input from me.
Week 2 my supervisor was only present for two days so I studied and paper traded the other three days hence the low profit.
Style of trading is momentum trading using Stochastics mainly and some short term fundamental anaylsis ie earnings news,Asian markets,metals

 

[nielsend]

My results so far: Week 1 36ticks profit
Week 2 6 ticks profit
Today start of Week 3 11ticks profit.
Some details: I work in a small office with one other trader who supervises me.I have two screens he has 4 screens I use the Esignal Profit Source platform and have CNBC on in work hours.
Week 1 Profits were 80% the work of the supervisor with input from me.
Week 2 my supervisor was only present for two days so I studied and paper traded the other three days hence the low profit.
Style of trading is momentum trading using Stochastics mainly and some short term fundamental anaylsis ie earnings news,Asian markets,metals

Sounds promising. It would be great if you can keep us updated regularly and let us know what you are learning from the experience

I also trade the SPI fulltime, but for myself. I've been trading fulltime for 3 years over a 3 & 1/2 year period (had to go back to work for 6 months after a year and a half due to the sudden ban on short selling in stocks), and solely trading the SPI for 1 year. All with mixed results. However it's starting to come together now. I basically trade short term swings in the market, with entries in the day session and try not to hold any later than late in the evening.

Any chance you can elaborate on your stop placement strategy. This is the area where I’ve had most of my issues. There are plenty of great setups out there, but managing the exit is the hardest part of trading to master, well for me anyway.

 

[Trade all Day]

Sounds promising. It would be great if you can keep us updated regularly and let us know what you are learning from the experience

I also trade the SPI fulltime, but for myself. I've been trading fulltime for 3 years over a 3 & 1/2 year period (had to go back to work for 6 months after a year and a half due to the sudden ban on short selling in stocks), and solely trading the SPI for 1 year. All with mixed results. However it's starting to come together now. I basically trade short term swings in the market, with entries in the day session and try not to hold any later than late in the evening.

Any chance you can elaborate on your stop placement strategy. This is the area where I’ve had most of my issues. There are plenty of great setups out there, but managing the exit is the hardest part of trading to master, well for me anyway.

Interesting thread.

I just started trading the Spi fulltime this week.
So far it's been ok-- so fingers crossed.
I trade day time only and 20 at a time.
Would be interested to know how many lots others trade on
a regular basis and methods used to trade ?

 

[RazzaDazzla]

How goes it Waz?

 

[waza1960]

How goes it Waz?

Week 3 results 31 ticks profit I'm now authorised to trade solo.I made my first solo trade which was a loss but still a successful week which is the main thing.I feel I'm struggling a bit when T/A conflicts with F/A,Momentum etc that is how much weight to give to each .

Any chance you can elaborate on your stop placement strategy. This is the area where I’ve had most of my issues. There are plenty of great setups out there, but managing the exit is the hardest part of trading to master, well for me anyway.

I may not be much help to you if your looking for strict rule based stops.My stops are not broker based but mental or written stops specific to each trade usually positioned above/below S&R lines also time is a factor because all trades are momentum based.
No trading the Spi tonight waiting for the FOMC Statement in the morning.

 

[Stops]

For those who trade the SPI there was an interesting set up at the open today.

When the market opened this morning there was a seller @ 4500 trying to unload 967 lots.He never got filled on the first trade so he pulled his order so as not to scare the market.If you watched carefully he got filled by lowering his offer and selling 40-50 lots at a time.He obviously new something as the market never traded higher than 4500 and has been falling all day.

 

[Broadway]

For those who trade the SPI there was an interesting set up at the open today.

When the market opened this morning there was a seller @ 4500 trying to unload 967 lots.He never got filled on the first trade so he pulled his order so as not to scare the market.If you watched carefully he got filled by lowering his offer and selling 40-50 lots at a time.He obviously new something as the market never traded higher than 4500 and has been falling all day.

Problem is that there may be other scenarios.
1. He was already short from 3 days ago and was trying to push the market down as far as possible to maximise his profits.
2. Today could be a swing bottom and he was trying to push the market down to pick up a load of longs in anything asx.
3. Hes just doing it to screw with you and there was no purpose to it.
4. How do you know it was him that came back later to grab 40-50 lot shorts?
Question is whether the DOM action you saw had predictive qualities and if you see it again(which may take months of staring) will the same price moves happen again?
I tried spi dom staring, couldn't solve it, but maybe others can.

 

[Stops]

Problem is that there may be other scenarios.
1. He was already short from 3 days ago and was trying to push the market down as far as possible to maximise his profits.
2. Today could be a swing bottom and he was trying to push the market down to pick up a load of longs in anything asx.
3. Hes just doing it to screw with you and there was no purpose to it.
4. How do you know it was him that came back later to grab 40-50 lot shorts?
Question is whether the DOM action you saw had predictive qualities and if you see it again(which may take months of staring) will the same price moves happen again?
I tried spi dom staring, couldn't solve it, but maybe others can.

From my days many years ago on the SFE floor as a local trader this was a certain tell.A big Broker would try to unload at the open and if they didn't get filled they would back off and spread the order amoung a few of their traders to sell smaller lots before the cash opened.

But it doesn't happen every day but if you know what to look for at the open it can be a very profitable time to trade.Today for example seeing this I was able to take advantage of this and thus take it easy for the rest of the month.

BTW another tell is when the market opens more than 5 points lower or higher than the sycom close it usually gives a clue to the direction of the day.

 

[waza1960]

Hey Waza, how's the trading coming along? Any chance you can keep us posted?

Week 4 progress: A frustrating week a loss of 30 points .Price action was too choppy during the week and Stochastics were next to useless.
Only positive was avoiding the 6 or more trades that I would have taken a few weeks ago which would have being losers. Looking forward to a better result this coming week.

 

[tech/a]

Ever tried the DAX.

I find it a much easier beast to read.
Opens 4.30 eastern and closes around 10.30.
Has some really nice strong 60-80 tick moves.
25 Euro a tick ($1.41)
FTSE is very similar with a 10 pound tick size.($1.70)
Not quite the range.
3 min bars show 500-1000 contracts.

 

[nielsend]

Week 4 progress: A frustrating week a loss of 30 points .Price action was too choppy during the week and Stochastics were next to useless.
Only positive was avoiding the 6 or more trades that I would have taken a few weeks ago which would have being losers. Looking forward to a better result this coming week.

Frustrating is correct. Managed a flat week last week, which wasn't bad considering how choppy it was. Having a better week so far this week, managed a decent long trade on Monday but missed the boat today. There was nothing on my charts that indicated the bounce from 4400. Can't catch them all!

I have no idea how anyone can combine FA with TA successfully?

 

[nielsend]

Ever tried the DAX.

I find it a much easier beast to read.
Opens 4.30 eastern and closes around 10.30.
Has some really nice strong 60-80 tick moves.
25 Euro a tick ($1.41)
FTSE is very similar with a 10 pound tick size.($1.70)
Not quite the range.
3 min bars show 500-1000 contracts.

Davin Clarke (http://www.trade4edge.com/) has commented many a time on his preference to trade the DAX over the SPI, purely for liquidity and volatility reasons. I'm planning to eventually incorporate the FTSE & DAX futures into my basket of products down the track. For a while I tracked the HSI, but found it too hard to read and therefore apply anything useful to it, mainly due to the short trading sessions. You can get wholloped if you carry over from the previous session as it can gap up or down significantly!

 

[supermatt]

Ever tried the DAX.

I find it a much easier beast to read.
Opens 4.30 eastern and closes around 10.30.
Has some really nice strong 60-80 tick moves.
25 Euro a tick ($1.41)
FTSE is very similar with a 10 pound tick size.($1.70)
Not quite the range.
3 min bars show 500-1000 contracts.

ive been reading euronext liffe website and it says 10pounds per index point , minimum price movement 0.5 (5 pounds)

so does that get converted back into australian dollers. ie 20 AUD per point? etc

where do you get the $1.70 from may i ask ?

and the FDAX is 25 pound per 1 index point or 12.50 per 0.5.

does this sound correct? i have never traded these before.

which one has more volume traded ? ftse or dax? the ftse seems good to trade for us aussies

sorry for all the questions

 

[tech/a]

ive been reading euronext liffe website and it says 10pounds per index point , minimum price movement 0.5 (5 pounds)

so does that get converted back into australian dollers. ie 20 AUD per point? etc

where do you get the $1.70 from may i ask ?

and the FDAX is 25 pound per 1 index point or 12.50 per 0.5.

does this sound correct? i have never traded these before.

which one has more volume traded ? ftse or dax? the ftse seems good to trade for us aussies

sorry for all the questions

This is the conversion .
This is the link for a good converter
http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html

I trade IB and was wondering why my capital base wasn't altering when I traded DAX or FTSE.

After contacting some experienced people they tell me with IB
you will have both a Pound and EURO mini bank within your trading statement where you will either be + or Minus that currency.

Haven't found out yet what you do if you want to get your hands on it.

Both are very liquid

Both make for better more enjoyable(and for me) more technically reliable trading than the SPI.
Mind you if there is a trade looking at me in the SPI Ill trade it!

Only been trading these myself for 6 weeks.

 

[waza1960]

Hey Waza, how's the trading coming along? Any chance you can keep us posted?

Well thats it finished as a futures trader for now at the end of week 6 hadn't made enough money so back to private trading.
Positives: It was a good experience and I learned heaps and got paid enough to cover my expenses.
Negatives:
I didn't feel that I was given enough of a go but commercial realities and business partners whom I didn't meet perhaps were the reason as well as my inability to make the targets.(40 points/week)
I'm not sure what the business setup was I only worked with one person and he was off sick for 2 weeks and expected to make his own money in the bond market so he was absent for another week and a half trading from home of a night which left me with only 2.5 weeks face to face training.
The style of trading which I was expected to adhere to was IMO difficult to Learn in that there wasn't any rules based trading but very discretionary.
But anyway in the end these are just excuses I guess so I look at it as another step on the trading journey.
Where to from here: well I'm going to apply what I have learnt and trade a micro ASX200 CFD in my IG account and see how I go (see my results from the odd trade in my IG account that I did while I was working which looks reasonably ok) and get back into my systems with ninja etc.

 

[Joolean]

Thanks for posting your experience Waza. Good stuff.

 

[nielsend]

Hey Waza, sorry it didn't work out. Did you learn anything, that's the question. If so then it was a worth while experience.

 

[quinn123]

I lost a few points on that large shakeout this afternoon, got a bit of stop slippage. I'm glad I'm only playing with practice monies. It went down pretty quick though, so I'm glad I had a stop!