Trading The SPI - NON-Gann Techniques

MRC & Co · 24 July 2008

Oh yes, didn't see it was in the same account. lol.

Yeh, agree Chops, has to be a calendar spread, only kind of spread it can be as both are on the SPI and would explain why both are from the same account.

Definately a explanation.

nat · 24 July 2008

hi there,with a cfd "spi futures contract " one can go long 1 contract then go short same thing with another so have 2 totally diff positions on same thing going diff directions ,with the one account,this is with ig markets ,so maybe can do it with other cfd providers, Nathan

Euler · 24 July 2008

nat said:
hi there,with a cfd "spi futures contract " one can go long 1 contract then go short same thing with another so have 2 totally diff positions on same thing going diff directions ,with the one account,this is with ig markets ,so maybe can do it with other cfd providers, Nathan

Nat, agree ... with IG you can use their Force Open feature which allows you to open a new position, regardless of any existing positions, which would otherwise get netted off.

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2008

nat said:
hi there,with a cfd "spi futures contract " one can go long 1 contract then go short same thing with another so have 2 totally diff positions on same thing going diff directions ,with the one account,this is with ig markets ,so maybe can do it with other cfd providers, Nathan

LOL. What a bag of ****

nat · 24 July 2008

Trembling Hand said:
LOL. What a bag of ****

Are you calling me that or the fact that they allow one to do that ,if the first answer you have totally lost my respect ,if not disregard .Nathan

professor_frink · 24 July 2008

nat said:
hi there,with a cfd "spi futures contract " one can go long 1 contract then go short same thing with another so have 2 totally diff positions on same thing going diff directions ,with the one account,this is with ig markets ,so maybe can do it with other cfd providers, Nathan

anyone care to fill me in on the point of being able to do that?

chops_a_must · 24 July 2008

So let me get this straight...

CMC open a new position to stop the client going into margin.

New position goes negative and positions aren't liquidated? WTF?????????

prawn_86 · 24 July 2008

professor_frink said:
anyone care to fill me in on the point of being able to do that?

i thought the same. your just cancelling each out so its the same as having closed all positions

professor_frink · 24 July 2008

prawn_86 said:
i thought the same. your just cancelling each out so its the same as having closed all positions

yeah exactly. Only thing I can think of to explain it would be if you were wanting to run a hedge on an ETF long position by shorting a cfd contract, but also wanted to do some short term intraday trading that wouldn't impact the hedge at all. But even then the end result would still be the same. Weird

nat · 24 July 2008

my guess and this is only a guess ,is say have a longer term position going long for say a week but can also short the same thing on the retracements .
Without affecting the original long position. Nathan.

prawn_86 · 24 July 2008

but its no different to selling the long term position then buying back in when yo think the trend is continuing.

Anyways, not my kind of scene so i dont really care...

Trembling Hand · 24 July 2008

nat said:
Are you calling me that or the fact that they allow one to do that ,if the first answer you have totally lost my respect ,if not disregard .Nathan

No, no not at all. Just the rubbish they come up with to pull in the punters

professor_frink said:
anyone care to fill me in on the point of being able to do that?

chops_a_must said:
So let me get this straight...

CMC open a new position to stop the client going into margin.

New position goes negative and positions aren't liquidated? WTF?????????

The reason they allow it is ingenious. Most retail punters do exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. Buy really high sell much much lower. Hedging is probably one of the hardest things to time.

This would be text book example what this dude has done. One bad trade after another and instead of up the trade when you cannot handle the loss any more they give you the perfect emotional out by letting you "hedge" just at the wrong time..............Brilliant!!

korrupt_1 · 24 July 2008

nat said:
my guess and this is only a guess ,is say have a longer term position going long for say a week but can also short the same thing on the retracements .
Without affecting the original long position. Nathan.

Spot on.... I do this everynow and then...

Awhile back I shorted at 5450. When I did this I was betting that it would hit 4900 sometime - so rather than close out that position and miss out on intraday movements,... I open new positions within the same account on the same instrument. This allows me to trade long and short positions all the while making some winnings on the side.

Being a short, I wasn't too concerned with holding it overnight since I was getting paid interest.

korrupt_1 · 24 July 2008

Crez said:
The contract that is the problem from my end is the 4860 short - I personally think that coming into reporting season, the market will move to the upside and the short postion is at 14k down at this level.

If you think there's more upside to go,... then that's ur answer... close the shorts... take the 14K loss. Ride the longs as high as it will go. Without the shorts, the losses on the longs will be reduced. When you think it goes no more, re-hedge.

Ride the short down, then close out the short when you think it's bottomed out. When you close out the short, the profits from that will be enough to cover the 'margin' on the longs.

Repeat again until you've made enough money to cover your losses. Then close out all position and walk away.

Note that each time you close a position or re-hedge,.. you will be taking a risk and punting on which direction the market is moving. If the market moves against you, you will need to move quickly and stem the bleeding by either re-hedging or closing out a short. You only got $3K left... so that's not a lot of room for errors. Just be sure about which way the market is trending before taking action. Hell if you are really sure,.. then place extra bets to speed up the recovery.

Good luck to your mate with whatever he does... that's one shoe I don't want to be in...

Trembling Hand · 25 July 2008

korrupt_1 said:
Repeat again until you've made enough money to cover your losses. Then close out all position and walk away.

Note that each time you close a position or re-hedge,.. you will be taking a risk and punting on which direction the market is moving. If the market moves against you, you will need to move quickly and stem the bleeding by either re-hedging or closing out a short. You only got $3K left... so that's not a lot of room for errors. Just be sure about which way the market is trending before taking action. Hell if you are really sure,.. then place extra bets to speed up the recovery.

Korrupt in my humblest opinion thats just not going to cut it. The statement about making sure which way the market is trending is madness. By the time you know that its normally over in this market. See today as the perfect example!!!!

The only thing this dude knows is that he is a poor trader and he has lost a hell of a lot of money punting in this way. They are the only things he can be "sure about". He needs to stop rejecting the reality and get on with other things.

professor_frink · 25 July 2008

Trembling Hand said:
No, no not at all. Just the rubbish they come up with to pull in the punters

The reason they allow it is ingenious. Most retail punters do exactly the wrong thing at exactly the wrong time. Buy really high sell much much lower. Hedging is probably one of the hardest things to time.

This would be text book example what this dude has done. One bad trade after another and instead of up the trade when you cannot handle the loss any more they give you the perfect emotional out by letting you "hedge" just at the wrong time..............Brilliant!!

Is it just me or is it quite sad when the only explanation that makes any sense is the most cynical one

professor_frink · 25 July 2008

Crez said:
HI guys, first post but I been reading the thread for a while now - great reading for a semi novice like myself. I have to throw one out to you guys to see if someone can help one of my friends with an exit plan. He has beeen in a pickle with some CFD aussie 200 contracts for a couple of months and trying to manage them has proven very difficult. I can't think of an exit without taking a helathy loss, so maybe you guys can. Here's the situation :
CFD $25 contracts
LONG -5849
LONG- 5272
SHORT X2 - 4860

The 4860 contract was cover as he was going to fall into margin. The 5849 long he was happy to hold onto thinking the 200 was only going to fall to 5300 or so. Capital spare is around $3000. I can't think of an exit without him taking a possible 15k loss. Can anyone put any further light on an exit strategy? I realise there are some "cluey" guys on the site like Euler, TH, AC etc, any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Crez

Crez, there is a couple of good lessons to be learnt here. Exit plans are a good idea. Pretend hedges aren't.

The best course of action here is to take a bath on the position and(hopefully) learn a lesson.

Things don't always work out the way they were meant to

acouch · 25 July 2008

to trade without a stop loss,you then think you are
smarter than the market..and the market takes scalps all the time as it is a living thing, and so is unpredictable.
you have to trade with the flow..
but then lessons are not cheap in the market..all a learning curve, and if you don't take heed, you will not be trading for long.
take care out there
have a great day
ac

Euler · 25 July 2008

Watch trading levels @

*5196
5157
**5118
5097
***5075
5036
**4997
4976
*4954

for today.

Crez · 25 July 2008

Thanks everyone for all your posts, and I'm with everyone on the stop losses. I personally don't trade $25 contracts - I trade minis up to 4 at a time with top ups, and have a 10 point stop both ways. I put this out there to see if there is a way other than what I had thought already to minimise his loss. My way of the thinking has been the same as Korrupts coming into reporting - to take the hit on the short as close as possible and work the cover on the way up. An enormous task I know, but seems like the only way.
Thanks again

Crez

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