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Tony Abbott for PM

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SirRumpole said:
Coal is a dinosaur as much as Abbott is.

Governments should invest in new power stations, but a mixture of gas, storage and renewables is the way to go. Anyone with some common sense should be able to see that.
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If we had been getting carbon credits we might have fairly significant forestries and rain inducing micro climates instead of over farming and desertification of natural grasslands.
 
Tisme said:
If we had been getting carbon credits we might have fairly significant forestries and rain inducing micro climates instead of over farming and desertification of natural grasslands.
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More sustainable farming practices would be a result which would be productive. Whether it affects climate on a global scale is another matter.
 
Yep, he's done his dash. At the last election he lost 9% in his seat. I still think a defection to the Conservative party is his best option.
 
It would be great, if the media would give some detail, as to what Abbott and the other dissenters are unhappy about.
Actually it would be good if the media, would give an analysis of the proposal, rather than taking a position without showing facts.
I may be wrong, but I can't find any information regarding the detail, does anyone have a link?
I have read an article covering Hastie's view.

https://thewest.com.au/politics/lib...gy-plan-revolt-as-pm-claims-win-ng-b88927491z

He says:“Ultimately, I care about working families and pensioners, and our economic competitiveness in an uncertain world,” he said.
Maybe no one wants to print the against argument.
 
sptrawler said:
It would be great, if the media would give some detail, as to what Abbott and the other dissenters are unhappy about.
Actually it would be good if the media, would give an analysis of the proposal, rather than taking a position without showing facts.
I may be wrong, but I can't find any information regarding the detail, does anyone have a link?
I have read an article covering Hastie's view.

https://thewest.com.au/politics/lib...gy-plan-revolt-as-pm-claims-win-ng-b88927491z

He says:“Ultimately, I care about working families and pensioners, and our economic competitiveness in an uncertain world,” he said.
Maybe no one wants to print the against argument.
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The problem with Abbott is that he doesn't have a return argument just a series of suppositions.
His hate for Turnbull and his willingness to listen to similar commentators blinds him. His aim is to ensure the Liberal party do not get re-elected. I am so over him.
 
Knobby22 said:
The problem with Abbott is that he doesn't have a return argument just a series of suppositions.
His hate for Turnbull and his willingness to listen to similar commentators blinds him. His aim is to ensure the Liberal party do not get re-elected. I am so over him.
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Knobby do you have a link to the pros and cons of the NEG policy?
Everyone is over Abbott, the media have made sure of that, by the way they report on him.
 
Try this interview.

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/tony-abbott-says-coalitions-neg-is-very-poor-policy/10115926

Transcript >
LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Since Tony Abbott was rolled as Prime Minister in 2015, we've regularly invited him to join us on 7.30. Tonight for the first time, he's taken up the offer and joined me from his office in Canberra.

  • Mr Abbott, welcome back to 7.30.

    TONY ABBOTT: Nice to be with you, Leigh.

    LEIGH SALES: What's your strategy for tomorrow's party room meeting, regarding the National Energy Guarantee?

    TONY ABBOTT: Leigh, there are two issues here. The first is the National Energy Guarantee, which I think is very poor policy because it's about reducing emissions, not about reducing price.

    The second is legislating the Paris targets. Now, the problem with putting voluntary targets into law, is that it makes them mandatory, it means that they are now absolutely set in stone and there will be massive penalties if we don't make them.

    Now, no other country to the best of my knowledge, even those that are still in Paris, has, set itself up for massive penalties on people that are adding to carbon dioxide emissions.

    LEIGH SALES: But, the whole point of legislation, is that it provides certainty for industry

    and business. That's why there are penalties for non-compliance. And certainty is what the business sector and the energy sector has been crying out for?

    TONY ABBOTT: How can anything be certain, if the whole thing is going to be reviewed in five or in three years' time? How can anything be 'certainly' when the Labor Party says that if the National Energy Guarantee gets into place, it will ramp up the emissions, the emissions reductions from where the government has them, 26 per cent to 45 per cent.

    So, there's no certainty in this.

    LEIGH SALES: Well, on the point about the 26 per cent, in August 2015, you said that your government had a definite commitment to reduce emissions by 26 per cent by 2030, but we believe under the policies we have got, with the circumstances we think will apply that we can go to 28 per cent.

    So when you were Prime Minister, you were advocating a higher target than what's on the table now?

    TONY ABBOTT: Three things, Leigh. First of all, that commitment was said to apply, if every country was bound, if it was and I quote, "applicable to all".

    That's the first thing.

    Second thing I say, is that we now know that not only have China and India, no emissions reduction commitments, but the United States has completely pulled out of Paris.

    And, the third point I make, is that, we were advised at the time we could achieve 26-28 per cent, without any economic dislocation and without new policy.

    Now, all of these things have turned out not to be true. And, again, Leigh, when circumstances change, you change your opinion.

    What was a reasonable position, then in 2015 is a completely unreasonable position today almost three years later, but the other point that I really must stress, Leigh - we signed up for voluntary targets.

    If they go into law, they become absolutely mandatory with massive penalties on them and that's a very, very significant difference.

    LEIGH SALES: In Question Times today, the Prime Minister was asked about your view, that power prices will not fall under the NEG.

    He effectively called you both an idiot and an ideologue.

    TONY ABBOTT: Well, idiocy is doing more of the same and expecting a different result.

    We have massively increased renewables and what have we got? We've got a doubling of price. We've got blackouts and rationing now routine.

    If you want to increase renewables even more, that is to say unreliable power, from the current 17 per cent to 36 per cent, we are going to get more of the same.

    LEIGH SALES: But, one could argue the contrary thing, if we tackle this problem —

    TONY ABBOTT: And, more of blackouts and rationing —

    LEIGH SALES: One could argue the exact opposite, but if we tackled these things in say back in, you know 2009 when an Emissions Trading Scheme was on the table, perhaps we would already be on a path to having a more secure and cheaper power supply?

    TONY ABBOTT: Why would the modelling be right this time when the modelling has been wrong on every previous occasion? I mean, I can remember, Leigh, back in 2014, modelling was prepared for the Warburton Review.

    That modelling purported to show, that increasing the Renewable Energy Target would reduce prices.

    It turned out to be completely, absolutely and utterly false. If you look around the world, the countries with the highest energy prices are the countries that have got the highest percentage of renewables in the system because the problem with renewables is that they are not 24/7 power.

    If it's not 24/7, it's not really power.

    We have got to be able to turn the switch and have the lights go on. If you are relying on wind and solar, the wind doesn't always blow. The sun doesn't always shine. There has always got to be back-up. And that's what makes renewables so absolutely expensive.

    LEIGH SALES: This energy plan has the support of everybody from the Council of Social Services to the Business Council of Australia, to farmers, to miners, to the clean Energy Council. Are all of them wrong?

    TONY ABBOTT: Sure, the business establishment, which wants to be polite to the government, because it knows that Labor's plans are even worse.

    The business -

    LEIGH SALES: Businesses never felt the need to not state their point of view.

    TONY ABBOTT: The business establishment was also in favour of an Emissions Trading Scheme.

    So the business establishment has been wrong before. I would simply point you, Leigh, to the head of Tomagow Aluminium, who said today, that if we don't keep coal in the system, the risk is that we deindustrialise our country.

    Now, he is the man who should be listened to, because let's face it, his plant is the one that's had to close repeatedly because of the policies that we have already got in place and there is going to be more of that under this system.

    LEIGH SALES: Let me ask you about another matter which is going to be coming up before the parliament shortly.

    What do you think the government should do with its company tax policy?

    TONY ABBOTT: Look, I'm really keen to talk about the National Energy Guarantee because Leigh, this is a watershed for our country.

    LEIGH SALES: Well let me - I want to ask you about company tax policy.

    TONY ABBOTT: I'll come to that in a second, Leigh. But, I really want to just conclude the energy discussion. This is by far the most important decision that this parliament will take. This is by far the most

    important issue that the government confronts because this will shape our economy, this will determine our prosperity and the kind of industries we have for decades to come.

    That is why this is so important.

    LEIGH SALES: Alright, company tax.

    TONY ABBOTT: Any attempt to snow this through, to kind of ram this through the party room tomorrow, to try to make us sign up to what is essentially the state Labor Premiers energy policy, would be dead wrong.

    OK, company tax. Now, I've said before that company tax cuts are good economics. They are good economics. In the context of wider tax reform, I think company tax cuts are a very good thing.

    I'm pleased that the government has already got a significant company tax cut in place.

    I hope that the tax cuts for very large businesses, can also go into place but I think it would be a lot easier to get the final tranche of company tax cuts passed, if it was in the context of wider tax reform.

    LEIGH SALES: OK. Let me play you something that you said when you were replaced as Prime Minister.

    TONY ABBOTT [RECORDING]: Leadership changes are never easy for our country. My pledge today is to make this change as easy as I can.

    There will be no wrecking, no undermining and no sniping.

    LEIGH SALES: Could you look Malcolm Turnbull in the eye and say that you've not been a sniper or a wrecker?

    TONY ABBOTT: Oh, look, there has been no leaking, there has been no briefing against the government.

    LEIGH SALES: Sniping, wrecking?

    TONY ABBOTT: There's been none of that. Look, I have talked in this term of parliament, but not prior to the 2016 election, I have talked a lot about policy because I want this government to be the best it possibly can be, but I've confined myself as I think is quite proper for a backbench Member of Parliament to policy.

    As I said, you know, Leigh, what I say to journalists off-the-record.

    You would also know, what some of my former colleagues said to journalists off-the-record.

    And I'm prepared to back myself against my former colleagues when it comes to playing it straight and playing it fair.

    LEIGH SALES: Is it fair to say, you are the country's most effective Opposition Leader?

    TONY ABBOTT: Look, I think, it's very important to tell the people of Australia what is in our long-term best interests.

    And what we need is a power system which is run to give us affordable, reliable power, not run to reduce emissions. This is the flaw at the heart of the National Energy Guarantee.

    LEIGH SALES: Tony Abbott, many thanks for your time today.

    TONY ABBOTT: Thanks, Leigh.
 
See what I mean.
One statement:
It turned out to be completely, absolutely and utterly false. If you look around the world, the countries with the highest energy prices are the countries that have got the highest percentage of renewables in the system because the problem with renewables is that they are not 24/7 power.

Texas is now mostly renewable. Renewables are competitive especially far from the main cities.

The policy as it stands is agnostic on the power sources. If Labor and he Greens want to wreck it is is their call when they get in. Labor have a high interest in jobs so I believe they will act in the nations interests, I wouldn't be surprised to see them build a new efficient coal power station when they win the next election. The Greens ...well we not what they are on this, big sticks everywhere, lawyers don't need
industry.
 
Thanks for the post PZ99, he doesn't sound unreasonable in his requests.
Sounds as though he has the same concerns as most of us on here, he wants a measured approach to renewables, that doesn't disadvantage us and undermine our industries.
Actually he argues from the same point as Sir Rumpole, I'm supprised they don't get on.:(
 
Knobby22 said:
See what I mean.
One statement:
It turned out to be completely, absolutely and utterly false. If you look around the world, the countries with the highest energy prices are the countries that have got the highest percentage of renewables in the system because the problem with renewables is that they are not 24/7 power.

Texas is now mostly renewable. Renewables are competitive especially far from the main cities.
.
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Texas isn't a Country, Knobby.
 
sptrawler said:
Actually he argues from the same point as Sir Rumpole, I'm supprised they don't get on.:(
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I agree with Abbott on a few points like immigration, but he's an elitist Thatcherite with contempt for the working classes so I would never vote for him. He's a political animal who only seems to care about beating Labor and never mind the trail of destruction he leaves behind .

I'll be glad when he's gone.
 
SirRumpole said:
I agree with Abbott on a few points like immigration, but he's an elitist Thatcherite with contempt for the working classes so I would never vote for him. He's a political animal who only seems to care about beating Labor and never mind the trail of destruction he leaves behind .

I'll be glad when he's gone.
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You should write for Fairfax. :D
 
sptrawler said:
You should write for Fairfax. :D
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If Tony wasn't such a Bob Santamaria welded on, a bullsh1te artist, drop kick and a hater of the working class he might be appealing. But as SR suggests he does have some of those old Labor/Lib common attitudes to foreign cultures diluting our hard won fortune.
 
Tisme said:
If Tony wasn't such a Bob Santamaria welded on, a bullsh1te artist, drop kick and a hater of the working class he might be appealing. But as SR suggests he does have some of those old Labor/Lib common attitudes to foreign cultures diluting our hard won fortune.
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The problem for Tony is, he generally has the right take on things, which doesn't make it wrong just not well accepted by the left.
The journo's as was shown in pz99's post#4188, can't prove him wrong and also can't get a rise out him. If leigh can't get under his skin no one can, but Tony was getting under hers, because he made sense, so she starts to talk over him and changes the topic to safer ground.
So what can the left leaning press do with Tony? When you can't out debate him, smear and throw shite whenever possible.
Eventually this tactic works, as the old saying goes, throw enough of it and eventually some sticks.
A long time ago in this thread, I asked anyone to post up something where Tony portrays the traits they say he has, no one could.
Again reffering to the pz99 post below, Tony treated Leigh with respect, didn't interject, didn't bad mouth her. She was the one trying to talk over him, when the interview wasn't going her way.
They have done a great character assasination on Tony, I think it is a bit of a shame, because he was the only one who could stand up to the massive left wing front that is shaping this Country.
There is no balance at the moment, IMO Turnbull is useless, which is the reason Fairfax pushed for him to be leader of the right.
People will be saying in a few years, WTF happened to our living standard, by then the horse will have bolted.
Just my opinion, hope I'm wrong.
 
sptrawler said:
The problem for Tony is, he generally has the right take on things, which doesn't make it wrong just not well accepted by the left.
The journo's as was shown in pz99's post#4188, can't prove him wrong and also can't get a rise out him. If leigh can't get under his skin no one can, but Tony was getting under hers, because he made sense, so she starts to talk over him and changes the topic to safer ground.
So what can the left leaning press do with Tony? When you can't out debate him, smear and throw shite whenever possible.
Eventually this tactic works, as the old saying goes, throw enough of it and eventually some sticks.
A long time ago in this thread, I asked anyone to post up something where Tony portrays the traits they say he has, no one could.
Again reffering to the pz99 post below, Tony treated Leigh with respect, didn't interject, didn't bad mouth her. She was the one trying to talk over him, when the interview wasn't going her way.
They have done a great character assasination on Tony, I think it is a bit of a shame, because he was the only one who could stand up to the massive left wing front that is shaping this Country.
There is no balance at the moment, IMO Turnbull is useless, which is the reason Fairfax pushed for him to be leader of the right.
People will be saying in a few years, WTF happened to our living standard, by then the horse will have bolted.
Just my opinion, hope I'm wrong.
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He attacked a sister with vitriol and you don't do that when you are going to be interviewed by one of them. Ditch the Witch was a defining moment where he should have publicly rebuked his minions, even if he agreed with the protest..... you know ... how all the pollies shook our new senator's hand then went on media to say what the virtue signallers wanted to hear.
 
Tisme said:
He attacked a sister with vitriol and you don't do that when you are going to be interviewed by one of them. Ditch the Witch was a defining moment where he should have publicly rebuked his minions, even if he agreed with the protest..... you know ... how all the pollies shook our new senator's hand then went on media to say what the virtue signallers wanted to hear.
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He wasn't holding the ditch the witch placard, who knows it could have been a plant, he can't be held responsible for someone else's deed. Oh I forgot it's Tony, he can be held responsible for everything bad. lol
Remember Rudd, didn't he abuse a female RAAF steward on a plane, the left gave him a second shot at the top job, lol how crazy is that double standard?

Like I said Faifax have, and still are doing a great job on Tony, the last thing the left want is a credible right in politics not at this stage of proceedings.
Turnbull needs to move on and either give Morrison a go, or move on to the next generation of members, ATM he is just smoothing the way for silly Billy. IMO
 
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sptrawler said:
Like I said Faifax have, and still are doing a great job on Tony, the last thing the left want is a credible right in politics not at this stage of proceedings.
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Abbott had his chance and he was dumped by his own party.

At least Ridd and Gullard had the decency to get out of politics altogether and let the next generation have a go.
 
SirRumpole said:
Abbott had his chance and he was dumped by his own party.

At least Ridd and Gullard had the decency to get out of politics altogether and let the next generation have a go.
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But Rudd and Gillard have international cred and are in demand...President of the Asia Society Policy Institute and Chair Global Institute for Women’s Leadership respectively. Abbott doesn't have that appeal.
 
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