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Tony Abbott for PM

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Julia said:
Well, Duckman, I'm a regional voter and I do not believe in Mr Joyce. And I think you're deluding yourself if you think people will be forgiving across the board when it comes to financial understanding.

Remarks such as Australia not being able to meet debt obligations are simply stupid.
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Hi Julia

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.:)

The bluster of Rudd, Tanner, Swan and the like, took Joyce's comments and then just applied the blow torch by adding some choice weasel words.

This was in "The Australian" today written by Dennis Shanahan.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/colleagues-zip-up-barnaby/story-e6frg75f-1225828943161

I draw your attention to this paragraph:

There is no doubt that much of the government's criticism of Joyce and the hyperventilated media coverage of his remarks have been excessive. His latest suggestion that Australia may not be able to meet its sovereign debt was politically inept, but to suggest he had imperilled the economy or the markets in saying so is a joke.

The Coalition are doing the right thing for mine, just put Joyce on ice for the moment. As I said before, the success/failure of Joyce's appointment will be better seen in 3 months time.

This is first and formost a media issue. For the last 5 years the media have "portrayed" Joyce in a particular way. The media need to adjust to Joyce's new role just as Joyce needs to get used to his new role. Joyce has just assumed that the media will "run with the intent of his message" like when he was the maverick senator keeping them honest. But they're not going to play that game if there are bigger headlines, to be made by running with another message.

Duckman
 
While Barnaby Joyce has been attracting all the flak from the Labor front bench for his remarks on the economy, Joe Hockey has tried to position himself as the man of economic sanity.

However, Hockey's judgement must be considered suspect after agreeing to appear on national TV, and allowing himself to be lampooned dressed as Tinker Bell.

I think Labor has more to fear from Joyce than Hockey, hence their concerted attacks.
 
Calliope said:
I think Labor has more to fear from Joyce than Hockey, hence their concerted attacks.
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It is a little like an episode of "Survivor - Canberra" - you want to get get the biggest threat kicked off the island. I agree Calliope. Hockey is lightweight for mine. Policy detail has never been a strong suit, but he has proven to be an adequate media performer. I can't see Hockey damaging Labour to any great extent. I don't think people listen to him.

Labor would love to see Joyce reshuffled or moved and to do so would be to play right into their hands. If the Coalition were to do that, you can just see the newspaper print. Every one starting with, "Former failed Finance Minister Barnaby Joyce, yesterday attacked Wayne Swan on........". The "attack dog" isn't so effective, once you've pulled all its teeth out.

The Coalition should be positioning themselves for the "big picture" ie Election Tactics. One of the key messages that the Coalition will be pushing before the next election is that "Labor Stands for Spin". Reinforce the concept that Rudd is all talk and no action and only says what he has to to keep in power. Hockey will be ineffective in this role. You can't fight a "spin merchant" with a "spin merchant (that isn't as good).

Joyce is one person that could potentially peel back the layers of KRudd and Swan like a banana. Regardless of what he says - Joyce attracts attention and people listen. If he gets into a groove I believe that Joyce has got the understanding to go along with the muscle to damage Labor. I disagree that just because a person is the Minister for Finance he/she should be above reproach with their comments and press statements. That is absurd! Some of the talk being thrown about regarding Barnaby's comments on the economy gives the indication that the Minister for Finance is a more important and influential position than that of the Prime Minister!!!!!

I'm not saying that Joyce is definitely going to be a success - I have no idea. But I'm really excited about his potential and I'd hate for the carpet to be pulled out from under him before he was given a good opportunity to prove his worth. In football terms, you often look down the playing sheet and say, "This guy is the key, he is so hard to match-up on. If they can't shut-him down early, Essendon :) is likely to go on and win the game". I think Barnaby Joyce has the potential to be that player. (Conversely, if he fails - the Coalition are ****ed)

Duckman
 
Duckman#72 said:
Labor would love to see Joyce reshuffled or moved and to do so would be to play right into their hands. If the Coalition were to do that, you can just see the newspaper print. Every one starting with, "Former failed Finance Minister Barnaby Joyce, yesterday attacked Wayne Swan on........". The "attack dog" isn't so effective, once you've pulled all its teeth out.
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Yes, you're right. Mr Joyce just needs to be a bit more thoughtful before he speaks. He was the object of Ken Henry's scorn in Senate Estimates this morning.

The Coalition should be positioning themselves for the "big picture" ie Election Tactics. One of the key messages that the Coalition will be pushing before the next election is that "Labor Stands for Spin". Reinforce the concept that Rudd is all talk and no action and only says what he has to to keep in power. Hockey will be ineffective in this role. You can't fight a "spin merchant" with a "spin merchant (that isn't as good).
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Agree here also. This seems to be the angle they're taking so far and it does have Mr Rudd rattled.

Some of the talk being thrown about regarding Barnaby's comments on the economy gives the indication that the Minister for Finance is a more important and influential position than that of the Prime Minister!!!!!
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That's just the media (and the government, of course) latching on like pit bulls to whatever Mr Joyce gets wrong. Such is the nature of politics.
Both sides do the same. Consider the roasting Mr Garrett is presently receiving.
But a potential Minister for Finance does need to demonstrate that he has a reasonable understanding of fiscal and monetary matters, something Dr Henry clearly doesn't believe is possessed by Mr Joyce.
That said, Dr Henry's own political affiliations are hardly in doubt.
 
Julia said:
That's just the media (and the government, of course) latching on like pit bulls to whatever Mr Joyce gets wrong. Such is the nature of politics.
Both sides do the same. Consider the roasting Mr Garrett is presently receiving.
But a potential Minister for Finance does need to demonstrate that he has a reasonable understanding of fiscal and monetary matters, something Dr Henry clearly doesn't believe is possessed by Mr Joyce.
That said, Dr Henry's own political affiliations are hardly in doubt.
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Also agree Julia. It certainly "looks worse" when a Minister for Finance makes a muck-up.

As for Ken Henry - Kevin would not have minded one bit when Ken Henry implied at a senate inquiry that Joyce doesn't understand economics!!:rolleyes: Yes - thick as thieves Ken and Kev. My sources tell me that sometimes in bed at the Lodge, Ken pops his head up between Kev and Therese (leaving poor old Therese to sleep in the spare).

Ken, Kev and Wayne have blown so much hot air up each others **** over the GFC, that I'm wondering if they are somehow affecting climate change themselves. Certainly a lot of smelly emissions have been given off. Maybe Smurf can help me on that one.;)

Duckman
 
Julia said:
Noco, I agree that BJ is good in the sort of situation you describe.

What I'm having difficulty with is his role of Finance Minister where he seems out of his depth. Economic credibility has always been the Coalition's strong point, but he's trashing that credibility very fast.

The person I would like to see come back is Mal Brough. He seemed to be clear thinking, intelligent, straightforward and decisive. He pressed ahead with the Northern Territory intervention in the face of all the usual left criticisms.
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Julia, I believe BJ will learn from his mistakes. As I said before, Tanner and Swan would not have a clue if they were left to their own resources. They rely heavily on Henry for advice. I reckon Henry was behind all that stimulas package. BJ is an accountant by profession. Don't have a clue about Swan and Tanner, except Swan was a bureaucrat with Rudd in the Goss Government. I don't know if any professional degrees.

Yeah, I too would like to see Mal Brough back and that might just happen. I'd prefer him in state Government. They need one big shake up and I believe he would be the boy to do it.
 
It would appear fairly evident when you observe Rudd, Swan, Tanner and other Labor MP's kicking the man instead of the ball they are deeply concerned about losing the game. Labor is keen to get him off the field.
Labor would prefer to see the coalition divided as before. It made their job so much easier. BJ is becoming a thorn in their side.
It would be curtains for Abbott to remove him at this stage.
 
noco said:
Don't have a clue about Swan and Tanner, except Swan was a bureaucrat with Rudd in the Goss Government. I don't know if any professional degrees.
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Hey noco

I heard a rumour that Senator Conroy wanted to clone Wayne Goss and put him in charge of the National Broadband rollout. Problem is they couldn't clone anyone with a successful legal career and a brain like that of Goss. So the next best thing that they could come up with was someone with a clone like voice, nowhere near the brains and of course much cheaper than cloning technology. They could only find one guy on the shortlist and his name is Kaiser (achtung! as GG would say :D ;))
and much cheaper of course at a mere 450 grand a year. I hear machine men are always good at working on machines. :headshake

Come on Ruddy fair tug of the tic-tac mate! :D
 
Duckman#72 said:
Hi Julia

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.:)

The bluster of Rudd, Tanner, Swan and the like, took Joyce's comments and then just applied the blow torch by adding some choice weasel words.

This was in "The Australian" today written by Dennis Shanahan.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/colleagues-zip-up-barnaby/story-e6frg75f-1225828943161

I draw your attention to this paragraph:

There is no doubt that much of the government's criticism of Joyce and the hyperventilated media coverage of his remarks have been excessive. His latest suggestion that Australia may not be able to meet its sovereign debt was politically inept, but to suggest he had imperilled the economy or the markets in saying so is a joke.

The Coalition are doing the right thing for mine, just put Joyce on ice for the moment. As I said before, the success/failure of Joyce's appointment will be better seen in 3 months time.

This is first and formost a media issue. For the last 5 years the media have "portrayed" Joyce in a particular way. The media need to adjust to Joyce's new role just as Joyce needs to get used to his new role. Joyce has just assumed that the media will "run with the intent of his message" like when he was the maverick senator keeping them honest. But they're not going to play that game if there are bigger headlines, to be made by running with another message.

Duckman
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One persons opinion with the lead in "There is no doubt that.." expressed in a newspaper is just that. An unsubstantiated opinion expressed in a newspaper.
 
And now Abbott wants to hold Garrett personaly responsible for all the insulation fitout problems that have occurred. Really.. what was he supposed to do, inspect each and every instalation personaly? Put it in perspective.
 
nulla nulla said:
And now Abbott wants to hold Garrett personaly responsible for all the insulation fitout problems that have occurred. Really.. what was he supposed to do, inspect each and every instalation personaly? Put it in perspective.
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If people die as a result of government policy there should be a royal commission into the cause of such deaths. Just like the Metropolitan Ambulance Service in Victoria.
 
nulla nulla said:
And now Abbott wants to hold Garrett personaly responsible for all the insulation fitout problems that have occurred. Really.. what was he supposed to do, inspect each and every instalation personaly? Put it in perspective.
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No, guidelines needed to be in place (not sure if they were or not). That type of insulation should not have been used in that manner imo. In fact I have not seen that type of insulation used in that manner before (in my 18 years of work). It also makes it dangerous for other trades who have to get in the roof. Just a strange thing to allow imo, maybe it was not allowed in the first place? I have the insulation AS standards somewhere so will check it later.
 
nulla nulla said:
And now Abbott wants to hold Garrett personaly responsible for all the insulation fitout problems that have occurred. Really.. what was he supposed to do, inspect each and every instalation personaly? Put it in perspective.
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What he was supposed to do was have enough inspectors in place when the scheme was rolled out to check that the work was done properly. And to ensure that installers actually received appropriate training before being set loose on the public.

One bloke who came to give me a quote boasted that getting registration took him about five minutes on line and he sat through a 'nothing' sort of training over 2 days at the Gold Coast. There was no assessment or test to ensure people attending the so called training were competent at the end of it. They could have slept through it.

This enabled him to be an 'employer' and he could then subcontract the work to other people who did not have any training or experience.

So effectively Mr Garrett's scheme was happily allowing people to do the installations who had no training and no experience.

This bloke said "it's the best money I've ever earned in such a short time".
His previous occupation was as a carpenter.

I'm not surprised. His quote was substantially above any of the others.
What a rort!:(
 
nulla nulla said:
An unsubstantiated opinion expressed in a newspaper.
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Sure........ it is an unsubstantiated opinion expressed in a newspaper, by a full time political commentator, paid by the media to provide his expert commentary on current political events. He might be writing things that you don't want to hear Nulla Nulla, but surely it carries more weight than a "Letter to the Editor" from Billy Bloggs.

As for Garrett, at lunchtime Abbott actually hadn't called for Garrett's resignation - merely saying that he needed to be held accountible in a "difficult" portfolio. It wasn't until later in the day,after the full extent of warnings Garrett received had been aired, that Abbott made the call. And quite rightly to - Labor clearly knew the risk and ran with it on Garrett's watch.

To make matters worse Garrett's has blamed the deaths on "slack" technicians. Shouldn't Garrett's department be somehow held responsible for the rollout of this project including the supervision,training and licensing of accredited installers? I think Julia's experience is a fairly common one - every Tom, Dick and Harry that had some basic construction experience was putting their hands up to get in on the scheme. Labor's job was to manage that - and they clearly didn't.

Duckman
 
Duckman#72 said:
Sure........ it is an unsubstantiated opinion expressed in a newspaper, by a full time political commentator, paid by the media to provide his expert commentary on current political events. He might be writing things that you don't want to hear Nulla Nulla, but surely it carries more weight than a "Letter to the Editor" from Billy Bloggs.

Duckman
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I was taught that an expert was "a drip under pressure". You expert is "paid by the media", the media want comments that sell, they don't necessarily want the truth. On the other hand, unless the writer of letters to the editer is a serial writer with an agenda to push, the majority of the writers are posting genuine observations or exprerience. I'd prefer to hear from them rather than your biased "expert" any day.
 
nulla nulla said:
I was taught that an expert was "a drip under pressure". You expert is "paid by the media", the media want comments that sell, they don't necessarily want the truth. On the other hand, unless the writer of letters to the editer is a serial writer with an agenda to push, the majority of the writers are posting genuine observations or exprerience. I'd prefer to hear from them rather than your biased "expert" any day.
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ROFL Nulla:D

Considering his message I'm sure you would Nulla - I'm sure you would.

PS. Great idea for a newspaper - don't pay anyone!! We definitely don't want all those biased drips under pressure. :) Lets move away from paid columnists whose job it is to follow the daily activities of Canberra and start a newspaper written only by housewives, retired solicitors and unemployed animal activists - can't see any agenda's being pushed there!!:rolleyes:

Duckman
 
So_Cynical said:
The market says Abbott hasn't got a chance of winning the coming election...according to the heraldsun today the current odds at Centrebet are

  • Kevin Rudd $1.20
  • Tony Abbott $3.85

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...dd-versus-abbott/story-e6frf7l6-1225830252182
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I got better odds than that at The Great Northern Hotel on Abbott, when Turnbull was still Leader of the Opposition.

A lazy $1000 stake, come home, should buy me a custom trailer from Crewe for the Arnage, to take all the Election junk mail to the dump.

gg
 
Duckman#72 said:
ROFL Nulla:D

Considering his message I'm sure you would Nulla - I'm sure you would.

PS. Great idea for a newspaper - don't pay anyone!! We definitely don't want all those biased drips under pressure. :) Lets move away from paid columnists whose job it is to follow the daily activities of Canberra and start a newspaper written only by housewives, retired solicitors and unemployed animal activists - can't see any agenda's being pushed there!!:rolleyes:

Duckman
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Even better we can invite them to post their personal (and seemingly irrelevent) opinions in the ASF forum???
 
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