Today's "anti-terrorist" raids

[Smurf1976]

The bill seemed pretty reasonable to me, unless theres more that the article doesn't mention. If it were used with discretion then it would be excellent. If it were abused, which it probably would, what's 90 days? If theres a good chance it could prevent 100 deaths then I have no problem whatsoever.

Does anyone know if our terrorist laws have anything along these lines?

I think the problem here is that 7 days becomes 14 days becomes 30 days becomes 90 days becomes 180 days becomes 1 year becomes 5 years becomes life imprisonment with no charge.

Just think, the government could send any opponents straight to jail for at least the duration of an election campaign if not forever. Indeed the opposition parties in Australia are on very shaky ground anyway since by definition they oppose the government. Take a look at our new laws and you'll find that's not a good thing to be doing. (Source ABC News). Not hard to see where that leads...

 

[doctorj]

I think the problem here is that 7 days becomes 14 days becomes 30 days becomes 90 days becomes 180 days becomes 1 year becomes 5 years becomes life imprisonment with no charge.

This is already happening, just not yet in Australia. Just ask David Hicks.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Some reading material about Holland and problems they have over there at the moment. This is just for your information.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/12/11/wneth111.xml

Snake

 

[dutchie]

Yes Snake a very sad state of affairs.

The Dutch are very similar to Aussies in their easy going manner and liberal attitudes. Thats why Dutch immigrants of the past assimilated to the Australian culture/society and did not set up their own little conclaves.

I hope that Australia never gets to the situation Holland is now in.

Doc, in that regard I hope you get to see the contrast in Dutch society by seeing Amsterdam (or Rotterdam) and then going out to "the country" and some little villages where the original Dutch society is more dominant (just like "the country" areas of Oz compared to Sydney and Melbourne).

 

[Smurf1976]

Very interesting about Holland. It seems that we're following them unfortunately with our increasing lack of safety so whatever we've been doing isn't working.

Anyone seen road rage on an Australian street? Thought so.

Anyone with kids willing to let them go out by themselves (primary school kids) for the day with no contact and return when it gets dark? It was considered perfectly normal for children to be outside unsupervised even 20 years ago but now parents worry about kids catching buses by themselves! Not exactly an improvement in community safety.

And now we worry about terrorism. A word that most weren't even sure how to spell just five years ago.

Is our country getting safer? In my opinion the answer is clearly "No". So what we're doing isn't working. We win a battle here and there but we're not winning the war.

We're increasingly living in fear and now we have the new fear of being locked up without having committed a crime. Kids walk into school on dress up day with toy plastic guns and the media calls it a terrorist incident. A car backfires and people expect a shooting. An industrial explosion and everyone thinks a bomb has gone off. A plane arrives late and a hijacking is feared. A tragic paranoia and loss of quality of life but at least GDP is up.

 

[Happy]

But when I think for a while WHY AUSTRALIA IS NOT SAFER NOW THAN IT WAS ?

I get to conclusion that we put too much emphasis on rehabilitation and multiple warnings, stern warnings and more warnings.

Kids to 9 years of age are untouchable, and some kids start as crooks almost straight from the cradle.

Drugs and stolen goods are like magnets for more and more ‘normal’ people, who see the advantage and have multiple use for easy money.

Assault gets undetected in high percentage cases, and penalties are not fitting the crime, and tolerance has something to do with football field, when patrons actually expect some commotion on the field.

Swearing? If not perfectly normal, so common, that one must think it is normal, despite what law and order personnel says (could be wrong – officially that is).

Until recently you were in big trouble if thief got hurt at your place.

Can it be turned around?

Bit late now, but we can try I suppose.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

This is already happening, just not yet in Australia. Just ask David Hicks.

Yes, and ask him what he was doing in Afghanistan. Maybe he was backpacking and lost his rights while there.

I'm sure the government knows a lot more than we do.

 

[Kauri]

Manipulated portraits of the Prime Minister and two of his senior ministers on display in a regional art gallery have been labelled treasonous but they will not be coming down.

The digital images of John Howard, Attorney-General Philip Ruddock and Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone with their lips sewn up are on display at the Wagga Wagga Art Gallery.

Should be worth a few years under the new laws..

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm sure the government knows a lot more than we do.

With these new laws your own family could be locked up and you wouldn't even be told that it had happened, let alone why. You're just left to assume they disappeared somehow.

If the government has nothing to hide then there's no need to gag debate in parliament and restrict media reporting. What, exactly, is wrong with the public knowing that someone has been arrested? Not much unless those doing the arresting have a reason to fear public scrutiny.

Fair enough to not report details during a trial etc. but not to report that there has even been an arrest? What's being hidden here?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

An article relating to this thread showing the determination of the government. I think Mr Costello and Howard have got the best interests of the country at heart.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17217173%5E1702,00.html

 

[wayneL]

"they're jealous of our freedom!!" LOL

 

[mikka]

"Those who are willing to trade freedom for security deserve neither freedom nor security."
-BENJAMIN FRANKLIN

 

[mikka]

"they're jealous of our freedom!!" LOL

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that's why they want to enchain us.......

 

[mrfirkin]

Take a look at this site and get another slant on what's Really Happening in the world.

www.rense.com

 

[doctorj]

Yes, and ask him what he was doing in Afghanistan. Maybe he was backpacking and lost his rights while there.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that was a question for the courts.

I'm sure the government knows a lot more than we do.

Perhaps they do, but it's irrelevent. Knowing something doesn't void a person's rights.

 

[Julia]

Take a look at this site and get another slant on what's Really Happening in the world.

www.rense.com

Who is rense.com?

I've had a look at this link and am singularly unimpressed.

Your point is?????


Julia

 

[Dine]

I am hesitant to make comments about this subject because the matter is before the courts. I will say that I think the antiterrorist legislation is making Australia a safer place.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that was a question for the courts.


Perhaps they do, but it's irrelevent. Knowing something doesn't void a person's rights.

What courts would that be? Under what juristiction? Us or Australian? Or Afghanistani?

You've brought up a highly sensitive issue here which you know very little about and, maybe, will never know anything about. I don't know much about it which is why I am not pre-judging the case. My comment before was in response to your damaging comment. To trash the government without knowing the facts is quite prejudicial and representative of ignorance to the wider issue of ideological revolution.

Lets hope if he is innocent he gets home soon.

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Who is rense.com?

I've had a look at this link and am singularly unimpressed.

Your point is?????


Julia

Julia,

What's your take on all of this?

 

[doctorj]

What courts would that be? Under what juristiction? Us or Australian? Or Afghanistani?

You make an important point. The question is under what jurisdiction does the US military hold an Australian citizen capured in Afganistan in a facility in Guatemela without charge for several years. This is off topic and warrents another thred.

You've brought up a highly sensitive issue here which you know very little about and, maybe, will never know anything about.

I feel much better for knowing what I do and don't know and what I may hope to know sometime in the future. Thanks.

My comment before was in response to your damaging comment. To trash the government without knowing the facts is quite prejudicial and representative of ignorance to the wider issue of ideological revolution.

You've used lots of big words. Well done. The facts on this Hicks issue are that he is Australian and has been held without charge in a military institution by the US military in a 3rd country for several years. Everything else is heresay - like you said things we don't know. I'm prepared to form opinions based on the facts at hand, I'm not prepared to believe that 'Government knows best' and behaves in good faith in all circumstances. There are far too many counter-examples.

To be critical of our government is to participate in the political process. It's about being informed and enjoying the debate that goes hand in hand with this. If the opinions I form are in opposition to the government, then so be it. As an Australian Citizen that votes, its our right or even our duty to ensure that our politicians represent our views, beliefs and morals.

Lets hope if he is innocent he gets home soon.

I agree.