The West has lost its freedom of speech

wayneL · 11 August 2016

Oh, and willingness to challenge your dogma doesnt make me bully.

That I disagree with you doesnt make me a bully anymore than you disagreeing with me, makes you a bully.

I have never used my mod status, to silence anyone, even if some have tried to use that to suggest I should not have an opinion. In fact I haven't performed any moderating action for quite some time, apart from spam and suchlike.

So again, you miss the mark by a wide margin, bas.

trainspotter · 11 August 2016

Read the title of the thread peeps. Ohhhhhh the irony of it all

DB008 · 12 August 2016

dutchie said:
My respect to the victims of the Islamic terrorist attack on the journalists of the Charlie Hebdo newspaper.

My condolences to all their families.

No other religion gets special treatment like Islam.

We are self censoring ourselves.

This is crazy. How can a man-made fantasy (Islam), get such special coverage and laws passed for their benefit (worldwide) ??? I think the violence that comes with Islam has something to do with it.....

ACT parliament passes religious vilification laws

Vilification on the grounds of religion is now illegal and in serious cases could result in a criminal conviction with a fine of up to $7500, under laws passed by the ACT parliament on Thursday.

Both Labor and Liberal supported the move put by the Greens Shane Rattenbury, who said the display of hatred, intolerance and offensive behaviour towards Muslims was one of the biggest intolerance issues in Australia today.

he University of South Australia had found about 10 per cent of Australians were highly Islamophobic, and while the ACT showed the lowest rates in the country, Islamophobia was still significant here.

"It is clear [Muslims] are frequently, almost constantly, exposed to discrimination, vilification and targeted offensive behaviour," he said.

Thursday's changes to the Discrimination Act also added disability to the list, so it is now illegal to vilify someone because of disability, religion, race, sexuality, gender identity, and HIV/AIDS status. Vilification can include social media posts, actions in a workplace and wearing clothes, signs or flags that would incite hatred, contempt, ridicule or revulsion.

Liberal leader Jeremy Hanson said the Liberals wanted a harmonious, multicultural society free from extremism. He had been shot at by Sunni and Shiite extremists and by the IRA, so he knew firsthand the consequences of extremism, but others in the community experienced the consequences daily.

Christians and Jews were also vilified for their beliefs and would be protected by the new legislation, he said

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-parliament-passes-religious-vilification-laws-20160804-gqlagu.html

Tink · 12 August 2016

Did they send a memo to the ABC?

How about Julian Porteous in Tasmania who was taken to Court by the Greens for writing a book about Marriage as it stands in law today.

The problem is the lawyers are getting fatter, and freedom of speech is getting smaller.

People now are no longer allowed to speak, the lawyer speaks for them.

A fractured society, in my view.

Value Collector · 12 August 2016

DB008 said:
No other religion gets special treatment like Islam.

.....

Such as?

Freedom of religion laws protect all religions. I am totally against all religions, and I wish people would give them up. But I am not for any laws that restrict peoples ability to practice their faith, and I not for anything that unfairly discriminates against people because of their religion.

We are self censoring ourselves

.

How?

This is crazy. How can a man-made fantasy (Islam), get such special coverage and laws passed for their benefit (worldwide) ??? I think the violence that comes with Islam has something to do with it

Christianity is the most privileged religion in Australia as far as I can see.

Value Collector · 12 August 2016

Tink said:
Did they send a memo to the ABC?

How about Julian Porteous in Tasmania who was taken to Court by the Greens for writing a book about Marriage as it stands in law today.

The problem is the lawyers are getting fatter, and freedom of speech is getting smaller.

People now are no longer allowed to speak, the lawyer speaks for them.

A fractured society, in my view.

I would be interested to hear what Tink's definition of "Freedom of speech" is.

Tink · 12 August 2016

Our heritage is Christian, VC.

As much as you dislike hearing it, our separation of Church and State was set up by a Christian.

I have already said, I am a conservative, small governments, liberty, life, responsibility and accountability.

Value Collector · 12 August 2016

Value Collector said:
I would be interested to hear what Tink's definition of "Freedom of speech" is.

care to give your thoughts on what you think it is tink.

Tink said:
our separation of Church and State was set up by a Christian.

.

How do you know?

Are you just assuming that all people from the past are Christian? you are good at that.

even if they were Christian, the wording of our constitution shows they had no intention of creating a "Christian nation", and purposefully put in wording to prevent any religion being in control of government, and protected the rights of all people to practice or not practice any religion.

If we are a Christian nation, please point me to where the words "Christian, Christ, Bible" or any other such references to Christianity are in our constitution.

Just because some of our fore fathers had some crazy opinions doesn't mean our nation is that or should be defined by that other wise you could equally describe us as the following.

Australia's heritage is Racist.
Australia's heritage is misogynistic.
Australia's heritage is xenophobic.

etc etc, offcourse some of our forefathers had opinions and believed things that were nonsense, Christianity is just one of those crazy things some of them believed.

luutzu · 12 August 2016

Tink said:
Our heritage is Christian, VC.

As much as you dislike hearing it, our separation of Church and State was set up by a Christian.

I have already said, I am a conservative, small governments, liberty, life, responsibility and accountability.

I think the moment those founding fathers thought to separate the Church's sticky fingers from the State coffers, they're no longer Christian of the faithful kind. They'd be better described as Atheistic politician respecting no Pope and no Bishop, working for no God but the people alone

How does being a religious person fit in with most of your values there?

Conservative... OK, I guess.

Small govt? Liberty?, life? responsibility? Accountability?

Religion, with an all powerful, all seeing, all spying, hardazz and not at all forgiving god; one who create you and have plan for all of you... that whatever happen in the world, it's to God's plan...

That's the biggest, baddest form of government there is.

Tisme · 12 August 2016

luutzu said:
I think the moment those founding fathers thought to separate the Church's sticky fingers from the State coffers, they're no longer Christian of the faithful kind. They'd be better described as Atheistic politician respecting no Pope and no Bishop, working for no God but the people alone

How does being a religious person fit in with most of your values there?

Conservative... OK, I guess.

Small govt? Liberty?, life? responsibility? Accountability?

Religion, with an all powerful, all seeing, all spying, hardazz and not at all forgiving god; one who create you and have plan for all of you... that whatever happen in the world, it's to God's plan...

That's the biggest, baddest form of government there is.

Our constitution drew heavily on the American version .....law 3001

nioka · 12 August 2016

Tisme said:
Our constitution drew heavily on the American version .....law 3001

Can I suggest that our constitution drew heavily on the 10 commandments. I suggest that when society ignores these then we are in deep split! That was a Christian influence that should even be a code of behaviour for atheists.

There would be no problem with freedom of speech issues if the 10 commandments code were observed.

Value Collector · 12 August 2016

nioka said:
Can I suggest that our constitution drew heavily on the 10 commandments. I suggest that when society ignores these then we are in deep split! That was a Christian influence that should even be a code of behaviour for atheists.

There would be no problem with freedom of speech issues if the 10 commandments code were observed.

The Ten Commandments??? Most of them are rubbish rules, and the only ones that have any real value eg thy shalt not kill, are pretty much Common place among all societies.

some of the Ten Commandments actually breach the constitution, so I can't see why you would say it was based on them.

And as far as freedom of speech goes, the Ten Commandments doesn't even allow freedom of thought, eg thy shalt not covet, and it directly outlaws speaking against God, so no freedom of speech there.

bellenuit · 12 August 2016

nioka said:
Can I suggest that our constitution drew heavily on the 10 commandments. I suggest that when society ignores these then we are in deep split! That was a Christian influence that should even be a code of behaviour for atheists.

There would be no problem with freedom of speech issues if the 10 commandments code were observed.

Are you for real?

Start at the 1st commandment....

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

There goes freedom of speech. Cannot believe in or suggest that there may be another God other than the God of Abraham.

Value Collector · 12 August 2016

bellenuit said:
Are you for real?

Start at the 1st commandment....

Thou shalt have no other gods before me

There goes freedom of speech. Cannot believe in or suggest that there may be another God other than the God of Abraham.

Yep, and the 2nd and 3rd bury freedom of speech even more,

2, thy shalt not make unto thee any graven image.

3, thy shalt not use the lords name in vain.

Seriously, how can anyone think these rules inspired the constitution, I seriously think that people that go around saying the Ten Commandments are the height of moral thinking haven't ever really read them, or give them any thought, like a software license they just scroll to the bottom and click accept.

bellenuit · 13 August 2016

Value Collector said:
Seriously, how can anyone think these rules inspired the constitution, I seriously think that people that go around saying the Ten Commandments are the height of moral thinking haven't ever really read them, or give them any thought, like a software license they just scroll to the bottom and click accept.

Like those that going round saying God is infinitely merciful and in the same breath saying he will send you to Hell for all eternity should you not believe in him or obey his commands. They simply do not really put any thought into the words they use, just mouth them vacuously. In this case "infinitely merciful".

DB008 · 13 August 2016

Value Collector said:
Such as?

Freedom of religion laws protect all religions. I am totally against all religions, and I wish people would give them up. But I am not for any laws that restrict peoples ability to practice their faith, and I not for anything that unfairly discriminates against people because of their religion.

Look at Islam. It gets special treatment. If I mock or make funny remarks about any other religion, they shrug it off as banter. Do it with Islam and they want to behead you.

If this picture was reversed and it was Christianity, they would be uproar. They only got a slap on the wrist. Sad.

Value Collector · 13 August 2016

DB008 said:
Look at Islam. It gets special treatment.. Do it with Islam and they want to behead you.

.

How is that special treatment under the law, it is still illegal for them to actually behead you, they don't get special treatment, if they did kill some one they would be jailed.

But anyway, aren't you guys fans of freedom of speech, you want people to be able to say what they like regardless of who it offends, you should be supporting peoples rights to wave such signs around.

If I mock or make funny remarks about any other religion, they shrug it off as banter

No, there are buddists and Christians that would kill you, or even burn you alive, it still happens today.

If this picture was reversed and it was Christianity, they would be uproar. They only got a slap on the wrist. Sad

Ever seen the signs that the west borrow Baptist church wave around? look at these darling upstanding Christian children.

If you think Islam holds the patent on crazy, you are dead wrong.

are all Christians like the westborrow Baptist church,... No
Are all Muslims extremists,..... No.

Value Collector · 13 August 2016

Here is a Christian preacher calling for gays to be executed.

But yeah, only muslims preach hate hey,

Tink · 13 August 2016

Agree, DB, and the reason 18C should be removed or changed.

This country was not built on offence.

It is being gutted from within.

Be the hero of your life, not the victim.

George Orwell had it exactly right when he said:

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”

SirRumpole · 13 August 2016

Tink said:
Agree, DB, and the reason 18C should be removed or changed.

I think the question about 18C is whether it is preventing factual discussion of issues.

The exemptions to a complaint under 18C are

18D Exemptions

Section 18C does not render unlawful anything said or done reasonably and in good faith:

(a) in the performance, exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or

(b) in the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held for any genuine academic, artistic or scientific purpose or any other genuine purpose in the public interest; or

(c) in making or publishing:

(i) a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest; or

(ii) a fair comment on any event or matter of public interest if the comment is an expression of a genuine belief held by the person making the comment.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2014C00014

Personally I think that this allows civil debate while preventing people being subject to hate speech.

It seems to have worked well to date, I don't see any need to repeal it.

The West has lost its freedom of speech

wayneL

VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!

trainspotter

DB008

Tink

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Tink

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

luutzu

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

nioka

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

bellenuit

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

bellenuit

DB008

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Value Collector

Have courage, and be kind.

Tink

SirRumpole

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