The West has lost its freedom of speech

[sr20de]

Truth and political correctness cannot coexist, you either have what is true and right, or you have what's socially acceptable.

http://viralswim.com/political-correctness-will-kill-you/

 

[luutzu]

Truth and political correctness cannot coexist, you either have what is true and right, or you have what's socially acceptable.

http://viralswim.com/political-correctness-will-kill-you/

Not true.

If a truth is spoken, no reason or logic or political correctness can stop it.

It's weak and false arguments that does cannot stand up to scrutiny that then blame political correctness for its failure and idiocy.

Take that argument from that link about Paris and Europe being lost due to political correctness.

How?

It's lost because there are terrorist attacks on its soil? Attach by terrorists?

For the political correctness fluff to be true, it must follow that all Muslims/Arabs are terrorist. Are all Muslim and Arab terrorist? Is Islam evil and will teach its follower violence?

You can't say Muslim and Arabs are this and that, not because it's politically incorrect, but because such beliefs have no basis in facts. And just because a person believe something does not mean it is true.

Or take this conspiracy about the Mainstream Media and its political correctness in favour of Muslims and Arabs. Seriously?

If the mainstream media "favour", or even neutral, in its reporting of the wars in the ME... these wars would have ended years ago - not expanding to ever wider territories as is currently the case.

How?

Why is it that we in the West believe Islam and Muslims are evil terrorists? All of them? Or most of them and those few who aren't evil terrorists aren't really Muslims...

Why do we believe that?

Why don't we believe in the possibility that maybe, just maybe, overwhelming superpowers like the West unleashing its dogs of wars on Arab land... that that might have something to do with Arabs and Muslims becoming terrorists.

Why don't we in the West believe that maybe when millions of Muslims have been killed, tens of millions more displaced and are homeless... that maybe they're the victims of war and terrorism instead of all being blood thirsty terrorist.

Put these simple facts together and you know the Media is politically correct, just not in the way they're made out to be. That is, the Media serve certain interests... and but those aren't the interests of the Muslims or the poor Westerners.

 

[wayneL]

Grasshopper, If I say that excessive immigration from non congruent cultures, (such as from some Islamic countries) will impact negatively on our western culture and diminish my enjoyment and practice of the same, that would be seen as unPC and possibly even disingenuously howled down as racist.

But it is the truth.

 

[wayneL]

In fact, political correctness is speech designed to disguise true feelings. What someone thinks and says in private, vs what one says in public are often diametrically opposed, vis a vis, a lie.

While what someone thinks and says in private may not sometimes be supportable by fact, or even reasonable, for them it is their truth.

For example, many in the Islamic community speak their truth, but it could never be in a month of Sundays be considered politically correct (curiously they are never criticized for that by the PC brigade). Astonioshingly, ironically, it is considered politically incorrect to bag out this political incorrectness.

Grasshopper, PC is nothing more than a manipulation of the cultural narrative by the putative "elites" for political gain.

 

[luutzu]

Grasshopper, If I say that excessive immigration from non congruent cultures, (such as from some Islamic countries) will impact negatively on our western culture and diminish my enjoyment and practice of the same, that would be seen as unPC and possibly even disingenuously howled down as racist.

But it is the truth.

It is your truth, not truth as supported by facts and reason.

I mean, do all "Western" people act and think alike? Are there no criminal and nutjobs in Western culture? Are all things Western good and noble?

So while we're all free to believe certain people, certain career and profession, certain religion etc. etc. are superior to this and that other traits and colour... just don't demean and apply those beliefs if it harm other people's right to also believe in the superiority, or at least the non-inferiority of their identities.

It's fine and good to see ourselves and our everything highly... it's another thing altogether to also believe that for us to be good mean the other non-us must be terrible and bad.

Genocide and endless war are fed by such believes. So while we might like to think and believe in our greatness, we might just be useful idiots in other people's plan to use our cash and have our names to the weapons that kill others - all to "defend" our way of life and whatever.

 

[basilio]

It is your truth, not truth as supported by facts and reason.

I mean, do all "Western" people act and think alike? Are there no criminal and nutjobs in Western culture? Are all things Western good and noble?

So while we're all free to believe certain people, certain career and profession, certain religion etc. etc. are superior to this and that other traits and colour... just don't demean and apply those beliefs if it harm other people's right to also believe in the superiority, or at least the non-inferiority of their identities.

It's fine and good to see ourselves and our everything highly... it's another thing altogether to also believe that for us to be good mean the other non-us must be terrible and bad.

Genocide and endless war are fed by such believes. So while we might like to think and believe in our greatness, we might just be useful idiots in other people's plan to use our cash and have our names to the weapons that kill others - all to "defend" our way of life and whatever.

Nice work Luutzu..

 

[luutzu]

In fact, political correctness is speech designed to disguise true feelings. What someone thinks and says in private, vs what one says in public are often diametrically opposed, vis a vis, a lie.

While what someone thinks and says in private may not sometimes be supportable by fact, or even reasonable, for them it is their truth.

For example, many in the Islamic community speak their truth, but it could never be in a month of Sundays be considered politically correct (curiously they are never criticized for that by the PC brigade). Astonioshingly, ironically, it is considered politically incorrect to bag out this political incorrectness.

Grasshopper, PC is nothing more than a manipulation of the cultural narrative by the putative "elites" for political gain.

That could be political correctness, or it's just common sense.

And no, nobody like racism and prejudices - from any group or race. So just because them PC idiots stop White or Christian people from harassing those they don't like doesn't mean it's alright for the other race/identity to do likewise - and it doesn't mean rights are being taken away either.

Well, everyone's rights are taken away to some degree. The price we pay for living in a civilised society. Can't have everyone walking around shooting whoever they don't like just because it's their "rights" to do so.

 

[McLovin]

any publicity is ........

Yeah. I guess a guy like Leyonhelm needs to constantly be jumping up and down saying "look at me, look at me". What a waste of time. A first year law student could tell him why his complaint will fail. They could also tell you why the complaint against Bolt was successful.

 

[Tink]

Freedom of speech is a human right for ALL of us.

It should be sorted on the ground, not via lawyers.

What is happening to this country?

Freedom of speech is a social good.

----------------------------------------

It appears that nowadays if you disagree with something, you hate them/it.

This is an appalling misuse of this very emotional word.

 

[Value Collector]

Freedom of speech is a human right for ALL of us.

So in your opinion, what is "Freedom of speech"?

 

[Value Collector]

Grasshopper,If I say that excessive immigration from non congruent cultures, (such as from some Islamic countries) will impact negatively on our western culture and diminish my enjoyment and practice of the same , that would be seen as unPC and possibly even disingenuously howled down as racist.

But it is the truth.

I think that statement is politically correct, you are making a claim though, which you would have the burden of proof and need to be able to justify with supporting evidence.

To me, a non politically correct state would be one that inflames emotion and derails the conversation away from the key ideas.

eg, If I say that excessive immigration of rag heads, will destroy our aussie culture and I hate walking around and seeing gooks and rag heads every where.

Political correctness is just about getting your point across without trying to humiliate or offend anyone that you don't have to.

In fact, political correctness is speech designed to disguise true feelings.

Only if those feelings are overtly racist, sexist or some other discrimination.

 

[SirRumpole]

Political correctness is just about getting your point across without trying to humiliate or offend anyone that you don't have to.

The way PC seems to operate in this country is that we should not make disparaging remarks against any minority regardless of whether they are true or not.

PC deflects attention away from the real points at issue and turns it into an attack against the bringers of bad news instead.

e.g. the Bill Leak cartoon. Certainly that cartoon generalised about the behaviour of indigenous parents, but the fact still remains that indigenous people especially youth are over represented in the justice system, and we need to find out why. Do we say that the justice system is at fault, or do we say that parental responsibility leaves a lot to be desired in this community ? Why are young kids getting into trouble instead of doing homework or playing sport ? How much are the parents to blame ?

 

[Value Collector]

The way PC seems to operate in this country is that we should not make disparaging remarks against any minority regardless of whether they are true or not.

no I think its more about not tarring entire groups with the same brush, and getting a real issues rather than making things personal.

eg. don't make out Muslims in general are terrorists or aboriginals are dole bulgers.

 

[wayneL]

It is your truth, not truth as supported by facts and reason.

I mean, do all "Western" people act and think alike? Are there no criminal and nutjobs in Western culture? Are all things Western good and noble?

So while we're all free to believe certain people, certain career and profession, certain religion etc. etc. are superior to this and that other traits and colour... just don't demean and apply those beliefs if it harm other people's right to also believe in the superiority, or at least the non-inferiority of their identities.

It's fine and good to see ourselves and our everything highly... it's another thing altogether to also believe that for us to be good mean the other non-us must be terrible and bad.

Genocide and endless war are fed by such believes. So while we might like to think and believe in our greatness, we might just be useful idiots in other people's plan to use our cash and have our names to the weapons that kill others - all to "defend" our way of life and whatever.

I don't disagree with that. But you must agree that political correctness is not always about diplomacy and avoiding war. PC definitely had a place in international diplomacy and in intranational politics, but does does it have a place in normal intercourse between us plebeians?

It might surprise you that I think it does, but with caveats.


For example, I think society should collectively decide that racist name calling is uncool and that there is a role for government in education in that regard, but not on creating statutes. There is a fine line between cultivating liberty and equality and thought policing.

Someone who drops the N word, should be seen as an 4sshole, but not a criminal.

To use an analogy, adultery has a potentially greater capacity for psychological harm than calling someone a choge or a coon, yet out government is blase' about one, yet creates a criminal offense out of the other.

...and understand, I use those words for effect in argument and don't condone their use.

 

[McLovin]

Someone who drops the N word, should be seen as an 4sshole, but not a criminal.

To use an analogy, adultery has a potentially greater capacity for psychological harm than calling someone a choge or a coon, yet out government is blase' about one, yet creates a criminal offense out of the other.

What criminal offence?

 

[wayneL]

What criminal offence?

18c

 

[McLovin]

18c

I've looked. No criminal offence there.

 

[wayneL]

I've looked. No criminal offence there.

But one can be prosecuted under 18c correcr?

 

[SirRumpole]

But one can be prosecuted under 18c correcr?

18C does mention the word "offence", but "criminal" implies you can be sent to gaol if "convicted", and there is no such penalty under 18C.

 

[McLovin]

But one can be prosecuted under 18c correcr?

No. They haven't been charged with a crime. How can they be prosecuted? The plaintiff is seeking relief, the DPP/CPP and the police have no part in it.