Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The Voice

Jump to new
SirRumpole said:
Alice Springs battens down for crime wave.

www.abc.net.au

'We can't have another summer like we did': Calls for more action to address Alice Springs crime

Alice Springs leaders are calling for the outback town to be properly resourced ahead of the summer, when crime traditionally surges in the region.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

From an indigenous elder regarding parents,

"
Alice Springs town councillor and Alyawarre man, Michael Liddle, said parents of young offenders also needed to be held to account.

"Why aren't there consequences for the parent?" he said

"Why are these people allowed to have welfare when they get paid to look after children, and then are totally neglectful in that?"
Click to expand...

It's not just an indigenous issue though. Teenage crime in Melbourne has escalated over the past 15 years due to some poor immigration and resettling planning. Yes, out of control youth is a parenting issue and they should all be held to account. Not sure how that is worked through. Probably be called racist to address it.
 
SirRumpole said:
Alice Springs battens down for crime wave.

www.abc.net.au

'We can't have another summer like we did': Calls for more action to address Alice Springs crime

Alice Springs leaders are calling for the outback town to be properly resourced ahead of the summer, when crime traditionally surges in the region.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

From an indigenous elder regarding parents,

"
Alice Springs town councillor and Alyawarre man, Michael Liddle, said parents of young offenders also needed to be held to account.

"Why aren't there consequences for the parent?" he said

"Why are these people allowed to have welfare when they get paid to look after children, and then are totally neglectful in that?"
Click to expand...
It almost always comes back to bad parenting.

"They've said that they can't go home because they're not safe. Well, we need to make sure there is a facility for these kids."
 
Sean K said:
It's not just an indigenous issue though. Teenage crime in Melbourne has escalated over the past 15 years due to some poor immigration and resettling planning. Yes, out of control youth is a parenting issue and they should all be held to account. Not sure how that is worked through. Probably be called racist to address it.
Click to expand...

In reference to indigenous crime, if there was an elite "Voice", they would be more likely to tow the party line imo, ie aboriginals can't be blamed under any circumstances, it's all down to disadvantage and dispossession, whereas a relatively unsophisticated but sensible bloke on the ground says it like it is.

They are the sort of people we should be listening to.
 
TimeISmoney said:
The Uluru statement signatories were mainly faked (remember the video in Uluru where the old guys speak out), many indiginous groups never agreed with a voice panel, they wanted sovereignty and a treaty, the elites told them that they couldn't have it without a voice panel. I posted a link to the indigestions group that spoke out about the voice a few pages back, and if you have a look at some of those NITV videos on the net they had groups that also spoke out about it at the Uluru convention.
Click to expand...

This one's worth breaking down;

'the old guy's speak out' ...
well their views have been dismissed by 3 out'a 4 of their repected communities.( out'a touch old duffers. Obviously a more acurate description; that reverbs well in this thread; just like the acoustics of a dunny)

'sovereignty and treaty' ....
well let's see how that unfolds . Nothing better than Warren Mundines volte-face the day after Oct 14 and the back-track'n by dutton-abbott. Screw betterment for indigeneous austraila, anything to take some paint off albanese.

'the elites' ... ???
help me here? the ones out of Kings, Sydney-Melbourne Grammer Cranbrooke, Riverview, Shore the mining interests and their army of lobbying suck-oles ?.... as with so many other things I'm at a loss here.

oh and any comment on the work of Peter Yu ? who's acually doing the work. When you've got the time, if you can afford it?
 
This one's worth breaking down;

'the old guy's speak out' ...
well their views have been dismissed by 3 out'a 4 of their repected communities.( out'a touch old duffers. Obviously a more acurate description; that reverbs well in this thread; just like the acoustics of a dunny)
Click to expand...
It still doesn't change the fact that their signatures were used when they didn't understand fully what it was for and it would be safe to say that they're not the only ones. I've watched hundreds of y-tube videos of indiginous people from remote communities who did not even know what the voice was other than being told that it would help them, but they had no concept of any of the deep workings or political involvement. Many of them don't even speak English or are very limited to a few words, it further makes me wonder how they came to the figures they did in NT.

'sovereignty and treaty' ....
well let's see how that unfolds . Nothing better than Warren Mundines volte-face the day after Oct 14 and the back-track'n by dutton-abbott. Screw betterment for indigeneous austraila, anything to take some paint off albanese.
Click to expand...
I reckon they would have gotten a lot further if they explained to the Australian public, at some point in the future whether people like it or not this has to happen, and on the same token, it has to happen so that it's fair for both sides. Not try to hide with a rift raft of lies in a piece of poetry that's the Uluru statement and then say every indiginous person has backed it when they haven't. Dutton is an imbecile but Albo has proven that he can't be trusted and sways too much to one side so it makes many Australians fearful of what could happen.
 
Last edited:
Well said Jacinta.

“While it led many Australians to genuinely believe that the Voice was the last hope, that without this change the situations of those who most need our help will not improve, it was ultimately a story of blame,” ​
“They tried to teach everyday Australians that we belong to a racist country, tried to teach our children that they shouldn‘t be proud to call themselves Australian, tried to suggest that if you voted no that you belonged to the wrong side of history. Well, we showed them,” she told an audience of influential political, business and media figures.​



ARC conference, London: Senator Jactina Price accuses Yes campaign of ‘emotional blackmail’

Jacinta Price has called for an end to separatism and racial division after the failed Voice referendum, accusing the Yes campaign of “emotional blackmail” and seeking to “tear down” Australia’s constitutional settlement with little genuine regard to the living standards of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.

In a speech in London on Tuesday (Wednesday AEDT), Northern Territory Senator Price, fresh from her leadership role in the historic defeat of the Voice referendum earlier this month, advocated for “no more separatism, no more dividing us along the lines of race, no more political correctness, no more identity politics”.

“They tried to teach everyday Australians that we belong to a racist country, tried to teach our children that they shouldn‘t be proud to call themselves Australian, tried to suggest that if you voted no that you belonged to the wrong side of history, Well, we showed them,” she told an audience of influential political, business and media figures.

A special guest at the inaugural Alliance for Responsible Citizenship conference, Senator Price also told The Australian the ultimate goal of the Yes campaign was “a radical change to the Australian constitution, a fundamental altering of our governing document, with a view to even more radical and fundamental changes to our country and society”.

The Senator was speaking at the inaugural Alliance for Responsible Citizenship conference, which has drawn over 1500 delegates from 71 countries, including numerous Australian current and politicians, including Tony Abbott, Mark Latham, Barnaby Joyce, Matthew Canavan and Dominic Perrottet.

Senator Price, who anchored the final session of day 2 of the three-day conservative jamboree, was introduced to a crowed of hundreds by a documentary about her journey from Alice Springs councillor to Northern Territory senator to de facto leader of the No campaign, which ultimately triumphed.

“While it led many Australians to genuinely believe that the Voice was the last hope, that without this change the situations of those who most need our help will not improve, it was ultimately a story of blame,” she said.

Former Deputy Australian prime minister John Anderson, conservative UK politician Baroness Philippa Stroud and public intellectual Jordan Peterson were instrumental in establishing the event, which they hope will provide a vision for political and economic life rooted in freedom and traditional Judaeo-Christian values.

“They used a collectivist approach to link every Australian of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander into a single victim group with no regard for our differences,” Senator Price said, adding some who “advocated the strongest support… had links to Marxism”.

“They drew no distinction between the well off and every-increasing Indigenous middle class of the cities and urban areas, and the poorest, most marginalised in our country who live in rural and remote Australia”.

The failure of the Voice referendum earlier this month, which attracted around 39 per cent support nationally, far short of the constitutional requirement for change, animated more than one speech on the second day of the ARC conference.

Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor, also a delegate, said defeat of the Voice had highlighted how universities and the metropolitan elites held starkly difference beliefs from the rest of the country, forming a “an elite wall of consensus we have never seen”.

He said resource and time poor regional and suburban Australians had triumphed over a powerful coalition of “big business, government bureaucracies, state premiers, most media commentators, celebrities, sporting clubs, cultural institutions, professional associations, religious leaders and universities”.

ADAM CREIGHTON WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT
Click to expand...
 
I am glad that the Albanese government called the Voice referendum. It has allowed people to have a good look at the system and to start talking about it.

The average person that is busy working to pay the bills and raising a family have rightfully allowed our elected leaders to run the country and make decisions for us, that we believe in. But something has gone wrong during the past 20 years, minority groups have got themselves into power bases and twisted the system to work for them. The refrendum has opened our eyes and ears.

Time for change, time to bring some sanity back. The problem is, how do you clean up Canberra.

The only state or territory to vote yes in the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum has failed its own Indigenous community despite having its own voice to parliament for the past 15 years. Indigenous Territorians are the most disadvantaged in Australia, with one of the highest Indigenous incarceration rates in the country. ​
The only state or territory to vote yes in the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum has failed its own Indigenous community despite having its own voice to parliament for the past 15 years.​

ACT sets an example to avoid

It is clear that for too long the ACT’s progressive fancies have escaped proper critical evaluation. A Labor-Greens jurisdiction of richer-than-average voters who mostly draw salaries from the public purse has been keen to proffer progressive advice on everything from Indigenous welfare to gender and drugs, but universally has failed to deliver.

Scrutiny of the ACT government’s performance across a range of issues detailed in The Australian shows the extent of the gulf that exists between rhetoric and reality. The ACT boasted about scrapping stamp duties and replacing them with new charges, but in reality tax receipts from all sources, including stamp duty, have risen. Despite the ACT being the highest-taxing jurisdiction for a decade, the territory’s finances are unsustainable and its AAA credit rating has been lost.

The only state or territory to vote yes in the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum has failed its own Indigenous community despite having its own voice to parliament for the past 15 years. Indigenous Territorians are the most disadvantaged in Australia, with one of the highest Indigenous incarceration rates in the country. As we report on Wednesday, law changes designed to eliminate discrimination against LGBTIQ+ Canberrans instead have chased away desperate parents faced with having to make difficult medical choices for their children.

Similar complications can be expected from what is being billed as the most liberal euthanasia laws in Australia. Canberra risks becoming a suicide honey pot with rules that allow people to access the assisted dying scheme without having to present a medical opinion on life expectancy. The ACT has put on hold moves for assisted dying to be available to teenagers as young as 14 but is still investigating how terminally ill minors and people with dementia could be included in the euthanasia framework in the future.

It is enough to turn Canberra ratepayers to hard drugs, which they can now do as well. The local Greens are holding the ACT out as a national template for a formal Labor- Greens coalition. They can get away with it because a dozy local media has been too slow to explain what is really going on.
Click to expand...


​
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander crude imprisonment rate ratio per 100,000 adults in the ACT is 20.5, that is, an Aboriginal person is 20 times more likely to be imprisoned in Canberra than a non-Aboriginal person, which is the highest in Australia, and 20 per cent higher than the average across all jurisdictions.​
 
JohnDe said:
I am glad that the Albanese government called the Voice referendum. It has allowed people to have a good look at the system and to start talking about it.

The average person that is busy working to pay the bills and raising a family have rightfully allowed our elected leaders to run the country and make decisions for us, that we believe in. But something has gone wrong during the past 20 years, minority groups have got themselves into power bases and twisted the system to work for them. The refrendum has opened our eyes and ears.

Time for change, time to bring some sanity back. The problem is, how do you clean up Canberra.

The only state or territory to vote yes in the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum has failed its own Indigenous community despite having its own voice to parliament for the past 15 years. Indigenous Territorians are the most disadvantaged in Australia, with one of the highest Indigenous incarceration rates in the country. ​
The only state or territory to vote yes in the Indigenous voice to parliament referendum has failed its own Indigenous community despite having its own voice to parliament for the past 15 years.​




​
The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander crude imprisonment rate ratio per 100,000 adults in the ACT is 20.5, that is, an Aboriginal person is 20 times more likely to be imprisoned in Canberra than a non-Aboriginal person, which is the highest in Australia, and 20 per cent higher than the average across all jurisdictions.​
Click to expand...

Would love to see a 'Yes, Minister' version of the Canberra bubble.
 
orr said:
'the elites' ... ???
help me here? the ones out of Kings, Sydney-Melbourne Grammer Cranbrooke, Riverview, Shore the mining interests and their army of lobbying suck-oles ?.... as with so many other things I'm at a loss here.
Click to expand...
It's an imprecisely defined term but broadly speaking, what's meant is anyone for whom all of the following apply:

*They've a relative abundance of money such that the price of essentials such as food, groceries, clothing, utilities, insurance, fuel, etc is not a genuine concern.

*Their occupation does not expose them to primary or secondary industry. They don't mine, farm, build or manufacture anything, they don't operate heavy machinery or industrial plant and their job does not involve physical danger. Typically their employment is not exposed to economic cycles - the nature of their work will continue regardless.

*Commonly believe most people in their city work in the CBD, that the MCG / SCG is a large area of land and that the main reason people own cars is to travel to work. Failing to realise none of these are true - in actual fact even in Sydney only about 20% work in the CBD, the whole of Greater Sydney is only 1.57% of NSW's land area and even during the morning rush only about a third of those traveling are going to work. This misbelief lies at the heart of it - failing to comprehend that the city CBD is for most people not what life revolves around.

*Failure to respect the knowledge of others, seeing their own view as superior on account of education, wealth or location. Failing to accept that in truth they've zero knowledge on all sorts of subjects, in particular those associated with regional areas about which they typically know nothing at all other than what the media's told them.

That latter point really angers those in regional areas who know full well those in the cities are being fed a load of nonsense by activists motivated by pure politics, meanwhile those with first hand knowledge can't get a word in.

End result is the divide we now have. On one side are those who've zero direct involvement or real knowledge but who are happy to demand government implements their view on how everything from trades training to farming, Aboriginals to power generation ought be done or looked after. On the other side are those with direct involvement or who've at least seen the thing being talked about who stand there shaking their head in disbelief that anyone's taken the activists' word for it yet again without checking the facts.

In saying that, there's nothing of itself bad about cities, the city CBD or the people living and working there. It's the "telling everyone else what to do" bit that's the problem. When having a degree in whatever field makes them a self-proclaimed expert on everything, whilst those directly affected are simply brushed aside as unimportant. That scenario is when it becomes a problem - people in regional areas have no issue with the big cities per se, it's that attitude that's a problem.

This isn't new or unique to the Voice, that's just the issue that's finally brought it to a head. People were complaining about it back in the 1990's, they've put up with "the inner city knows best" for a long time now and it seems they've finally snapped.

On this particular issue, Aboriginals, I claim no expertise but suffice to say I've learned to be extremely wary of the city-centric activists and their allies. Their track record sure isn't good, anything and everything they say ought be treated with caution until proven correct. :2twocents
 
Last edited:
Smurf1976 said:
It's an imprecisely defined term but broadly speaking, what's meant is anyone for whom all of the following apply:

*They've a relative abundance of money such that the price of essentials such as food, groceries, clothing, utilities, insurance, fuel, etc is not a genuine concern.

*Their occupation does not expose them to primary or secondary industry. They don't mine, farm, build or manufacture anything, they don't operate heavy machinery or industrial plant and their job does not involve physical danger. Typically their employment is not exposed to economic cycles - the nature of their work will continue regardless.

*Commonly believe most people in their city work in the CBD, that the MCG / SCG is a large area of land and that the main reason people own cars is to travel to work. Failing to realise none of these are true - in actual fact even in Sydney only about 20% work in the CBD, the whole of Greater Sydney is only 1.57% of NSW's land area and even during the morning rush only about a third of those traveling are going to work. This misbelief lies at the heart of it - failing to comprehend that the city CBD is for most people not what life revolves around.

*Failure to respect the knowledge of others, seeing their own view as superior on account of education, wealth or location. Failing to accept that in truth they've zero knowledge on all sorts of subjects, in particular those associated with regional areas about which they typically know nothing at all other than what the media's told them.

That latter point really angers those in regional areas who know full well those in the cities are being fed a load of nonsense by activists motivated by pure politics, meanwhile those with first hand knowledge can't get a word in.

End result is the divide we now have. On one side are those who've zero direct involvement or real knowledge but who are happy to demand government implements their view on how everything from trades training to farming, Aboriginals to power generation ought be done or looked after. On the other side are those with direct involvement or who've at least seen the thing being talked about who stand there shaking their head in disbelief that anyone's taken the activists' word for it yet again without checking the facts.

On this particular issue, Aboriginals, I claim no expertise but suffice to say I've learned to be extremely wary of the city-centric activists and their allies. Their track record sure isn't good, anything and everything they say ought be treated with caution until proven correct. :2twocents
Click to expand...

Don’t forget about their exceptional superannuation.
 
Smurf1976 said:
It's an imprecisely defined term but broadly speaking, what's meant is anyone for whom all of the following apply:

*They've a relative abundance of money such that the price of essentials such as food, groceries, clothing, utilities, insurance, fuel, etc is not a genuine concern.

*Their occupation does not expose them to primary or secondary industry. They don't mine, farm, build or manufacture anything, they don't operate heavy machinery or industrial plant and their job does not involve physical danger. Typically their employment is not exposed to economic cycles - the nature of their work will continue regardless.

*Commonly believe most people in their city work in the CBD, that the MCG / SCG is a large area of land and that the main reason people own cars is to travel to work. Failing to realise none of these are true - in actual fact even in Sydney only about 20% work in the CBD, the whole of Greater Sydney is only 1.57% of NSW's land area and even during the morning rush only about a third of those traveling are going to work. This misbelief lies at the heart of it - failing to comprehend that the city CBD is for most people not what life revolves around.

*Failure to respect the knowledge of others, seeing their own view as superior on account of education, wealth or location. Failing to accept that in truth they've zero knowledge on all sorts of subjects, in particular those associated with regional areas about which they typically know nothing at all other than what the media's told them.

That latter point really angers those in regional areas who know full well those in the cities are being fed a load of nonsense by activists motivated by pure politics, meanwhile those with first hand knowledge can't get a word in.

End result is the divide we now have. On one side are those who've zero direct involvement or real knowledge but who are happy to demand government implements their view on how everything from trades training to farming, Aboriginals to power generation ought be done or looked after. On the other side are those with direct involvement or who've at least seen the thing being talked about who stand there shaking their head in disbelief that anyone's taken the activists' word for it yet again without checking the facts.

In saying that, there's nothing of itself bad about cities, the city CBD or the people living and working there. It's the "telling everyone else what to do" bit that's the problem. When having a degree in whatever field makes them a self-proclaimed expert on everything, whilst those directly affected are simply brushed aside as unimportant. That scenario is when it becomes a problem - people in regional areas have no issue with the big cities per se, it's that attitude that's a problem.

This isn't new or unique to the Voice, that's just the issue that's finally brought it to a head. People were complaining about it back in the 1990's, they've put up with "the inner city knows best" for a long time now and it seems they've finally snapped.

On this particular issue, Aboriginals, I claim no expertise but suffice to say I've learned to be extremely wary of the city-centric activists and their allies. Their track record sure isn't good, anything and everything they say ought be treated with caution until proven correct. :2twocents
Click to expand...
@Smurf1976 Oh Sir well drafted and well put. A star from me and the bloke in the mirror.
 
mullokintyre said:
Its over gentlemen and others, the voice debate needs closing.
Lets waste our time on something useful.
mick
Click to expand...

That's what the Yes side want you to think, that it is "over". The 12-point letter shows that it is far from over for them.

If the majority forget about what has happened and what was achieved, the silent minority will rise again, they actually think that they have a case to create their own country.


www.afr.com

Voice leaders pen private letter of angst to Albanese

Voice advocates who disagreed with Sunday’s bruising open letter are preparing a separate response about the referendum’s defeat.
www.afr.com www.afr.com
 
mullokintyre said:
Its over
Click to expand...
My two cents is the referendum might be over but the impacts have barely begun.

As I see it, it's a turning point that'll still be relevant decades from now indeed it'll very likely be something extensively studied.

It's not WW2 level of significance but it could be compared to the social changes of the 1960's, the rise of environmentalism in the 1970's or the adoption of "economic rationalism" by Western governments during the 1980's or the "security" measures which came about in 2001. The sort of thing that there's no easy turning back from once done, and any reversal will be at least a generation later.

The political paradigm we've seen for the past few decades has just faced its first serious defeat. If history's any guide, the tide has now permanently turned on that and we'll see a major refocusing going forward, the only question being whether or not there's serious conflict.:2twocents
 

Similar threads

R
The American use of War Pretext Incidents
Replies
6
Views
9K
sptrawler
sptrawler
Top