The Voice

[JohnDe]

The PM has a lot on his plate.

Indigenous Voice to Parliament leaders now pushing Anthony Albanese to deliver a treaty despite the failed referendum

Indigenous leaders have reaffirmed their commitment to push the Albanese Labor government for a treaty despite the failed Voice to Parliament referendum.

'The Uluru Statement stands, absolutely,' co-chair of the Yes23 campaign Rachel Perkins told supporters on Monday in an online town hall meeting.

The Uluru Statement from the Heart has three pillars at its core - voice, treaty and truth - designed to achieve Makarrata, or coming together in peace, after a dispute.

'That aspiration of a voice will remain. It may not be achieved by referendum but it will be achieved,' Ms Perkins added.

Many First Nations groups declared a week of silence following the October 14 referendum in which adding an Indigenous Voice to the Constitution was voted down by a 60 per cent majority of Australians.

Key figures from the Yes campaign have since slowly been making statements about what the next steps toward reconciliation might look like.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has said he will widely consult with Indigenous leaders before setting a new agenda for his government on the issue.

The PM said before the referendum that he would listen to Australians and not push to legislate an Indigenous Voice should the referendum fail.

Professor Megan Davis and Pat Anderson, two of the architects of the Uluru Statement from the Heart formed from a meeting of hundreds of Indigenous leaders in Alice Springs in 2017, said the 'Uluru Dialogue is going nowhere'.

Prominent Yes campaigner Thomas Mayo said he believed the referendum had 'shifted Australia in the right direction' despite the No result.

'It continues that we do need a voice. It's for sure we got this proposal right, that a people who have decisions made specifically about them should have a structure, a representative body to speak to those decisions,' he told ABC radio.



An Indigenous Voice to Parliament was voted down by 60 per cent of Australians (pictured: Yes supporters on referendum night)© Provided by Daily Mail

Australian states have already done their own work implementing the Uluru Statement's three pillars.

A First People's Assembly is already in place in Victoria.

In NSW, $5million was spent on a consultation process for a similar policy, though Premier Chris Minns said recently any action would be shelved until after the next state election.

In Queensland a legislated Path to Treaty was underway but has hit a wall with the LNP withdrawing their support last month and Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk saying she would only move forward with bipartisan commitment.

It may not be until early next year that any kind of new direction is decided by the federal government with sources from the Yes campaign telling the Guardian they were concerned any proposals so close to the referendum result would be dismissed.

Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney said she 'would not be rushed' in deciding new policy and indicated more information would follow in 'the first few weeks of next year'.

 

[wayneL]

"A treaty is an international agreement concluded in written form between two or more States (or international organisations) and is governed by international law. A treaty gives rise to international legal rights and obligations."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/treaties%23:~:text%3DA%2520treaty%2520is%2520an%2520international,international%2520legal%2520rights%2520and%2520obligations.&ved=2ahUKEwjetPHnj7GCAxXasFYBHVyODLQQFnoECAcQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3Rhs55lBVfv3x-1cuiul8Q

Think about what treaty actually means in our context.

Treaty would be insanity.

 

[farmerge]

"A treaty is an international agreement concluded in written form between two or more States (or international organisations) and is governed by international law. A treaty gives rise to international legal rights and obligations."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/treaties%23:~:text%3DA%2520treaty%2520is%2520an%2520international,international%2520legal%2520rights%2520and%2520obligations.&ved=2ahUKEwjetPHnj7GCAxXasFYBHVyODLQQFnoECAcQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3Rhs55lBVfv3x-1cuiul8Q

Think about what treaty actually means in our context.

Treaty would be insanity.

Perhaps just one day th Yes campaigners may realisethat they LOST the referendum.

 

[sptrawler]

"A treaty is an international agreement concluded in written form between two or more States (or international organisations) and is governed by international law. A treaty gives rise to international legal rights and obligations."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/treaties%23:~:text%3DA%2520treaty%2520is%2520an%2520international,international%2520legal%2520rights%2520and%2520obligations.&ved=2ahUKEwjetPHnj7GCAxXasFYBHVyODLQQFnoECAcQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3Rhs55lBVfv3x-1cuiul8Q

Think about what treaty actually means in our context.

Treaty would be insanity.

Well does that give rise to the question, if the aboriginals have never agreed to being Australian citizens under our sovereignty , did they have a right to accept or indeed qualify for welfare?
This is the issue, one can't claim loss, while claiming benefits as result of the loss.

They should be paid for loss of ownership IMO, but that has to be weighed in a sensible manner, as to the gains they have made with regard subsidies, land rights and welfare.

Therefore the city dwellers, if they feel have been disavowed of their land, could return to those lands and re establish that connection.

The ridiculous notion that the Australian population pay forever for immigrating here is ridiculous, as we are encouraging people to immigrate here in massive numbers at the moment, are we warning them that they could be charged an extra fee for moving here?

If not we may well be in breach of our own advertising laws, where all costs have to be shown in the advertising.

As usual it is just another poorly thought out brain fart, that when it is actually worked through, turns to $hit IMO.

As usual FW's, led by Fw's

 

[farmerge]

Well does that give rise to the question, if the aboriginals have never agreed to being Australian citizens under our sovereignty , did they have a right to accept or indeed qualify for welfare?
This is the issue, one can't claim loss, while claiming benefits as result of the loss.

They should be paid for loss of ownership IMO, but that has to be weighed in a sensible manner, as to the gains they have made with regard subsidies, land rights and welfare.

Therefore the city dwellers, if they feel have been disavowed of their land, could return to those lands and re establish that connection.

The ridiculous notion that the Australian population pay forever for immigrating here is ridiculous, as we are encouraging people to immigrate here in massive numbers, are we warning them that they could be charged an extra fee for moving here?

If not we may well be in breach of our own advertising laws, where all costs have to be shown in the advertising.

A short story of a full blood Aboriginal boy taken from his biological partents at the age of 3 moths. Shock, horror you may think. Fortunately for him he was saved from a premature death as both of his parents were habitual aloholics and he was born one also. I employed Phil for four years and he was always one the turps after work each day. Sadly I had to put himoff in the end. At the age of about 40 he became sober This was heartening news for me. But very sadly I only learned a couple of days ago, he was found death in his car east of Norseman, returning home after working in Queensland for the past 18 months. He was only 51. He had a future as an ALF footballer in his teens and 20's but the grog had the better of him. Had a terific smile and was a great bloke when sober. Was as black as the ace of spades but considered himself white. Had a couple of fummy instances about that.
So Phil may you rest in peace, I will always remember you fondly.

 

[sptrawler]

A short story of a full blood Aboriginal boy taken from his biological partents at the age of 3 moths. Shock, horror you may think. Fortunately for him he was saved from a premature death as both of his parents were habitual aloholics and he was born one also. I employed Phil for four years and he was always one the turps after work each day. Sadly I had to put himoff in the end. At the age of about 40 he became sober This was heartening news for me. But very sadly I only learned a couple of days ago, he was found death in his car east of Norseman, returning home after working in Queensland for the past 18 months. He was only 51. He had a future as an ALF footballer in his teens and 20's but the grog had the better of him. Had a terific smile and was a great bloke when sober. Was as black as the ace of spades but considered himself white. Had a couple of fummy instances about that.
So Phil may you rest in peace, I will always remember you fondly.

Yes I have a couple of mates that I haven't seen for years, but if I dropped in on them, or they on me we would re connect.
Just great guys, sad that they are brought up in a mindset, where it is so hard to break free from.

My son has aboriginal grandkids, my BIL his sister has an aboriginal partner I boxed with and is now an aboriginal liaison officer, an AFL aboriginal player who is now employed mentoring aboriginal kids I count as a friend.

The point is, they have to be treated as people who feel they have had their land stolen, that has to be overcome, otherwise they will never stop having a reason to behave badly.
It is a self support feedback loop.

 

[sptrawler]

Unintended consequences starting to appear, post referendum, one thing that seems to be coming through is that it was divisive.
Maybe a compromise could be found, after the welcome to country speech, maybe a couple of verses of advance Australia Fair could be sung.

Second WA shire council to debate future of 'tokenistic' Acknowledgment of Country

Aboriginal leaders have criticised the Harvey shire councillor behind a proposal to abolish Acknowledgement of Country at council events, saying it has its place at special events but is overused and starting to "work against" Indigenous communities.

www.abc.net.au

The Shire of Harvey will this month consider abolishing the long-held practice of acknowledging Aboriginal custodians of local lands before council events.
Cr Carbone put the proposed abolition forward at a council meeting last month and has described the ceremonies as "tokenistic" and "virtue signalling".

It comes after three councillors from the nearby City of Bunbury voted against its new Acknowledgement of Country in July, with one stating they did not want a blanket recognition of everyone in the Aboriginal community because there were some who were "not pure".

Mr Carbone said the recent rejection of the Voice to Parliament showed the public wanted "to make up their own mind" and represented a shift in attitude on the issue.

But South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council chairperson Megan Krakouer said the idea was "disgraceful" and "appalling".
"We must respect each other regardless of the outcome of the campaign. We need to come together as one.

 

[Sean K]

Unintended consequences starting to appear, post referendum, one thing that seems to be coming through is that it was divisive.
Maybe a compromise could be found, after the welcome to country speech, maybe a couple of verses of advance Australia Fair could be sung.

Second WA shire council to debate future of 'tokenistic' Acknowledgment of Country

Aboriginal leaders have criticised the Harvey shire councillor behind a proposal to abolish Acknowledgement of Country at council events, saying it has its place at special events but is overused and starting to "work against" Indigenous communities.

www.abc.net.au

The Shire of Harvey will this month consider abolishing the long-held practice of acknowledging Aboriginal custodians of local lands before council events.
Cr Carbone put the proposed abolition forward at a council meeting last month and has described the ceremonies as "tokenistic" and "virtue signalling".

It comes after three councillors from the nearby City of Bunbury voted against its new Acknowledgement of Country in July, with one stating they did not want a blanket recognition of everyone in the Aboriginal community because there were some who were "not pure".

Mr Carbone said the recent rejection of the Voice to Parliament showed the public wanted "to make up their own mind" and represented a shift in attitude on the issue.

But South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council chairperson Megan Krakouer said the idea was "disgraceful" and "appalling".
"We must respect each other regardless of the outcome of the campaign. We need to come together as one.

I think we only need to be 'welcomed' once. Makes no sense to be welcomed to a piece of dirt more than once. And, how many times do we need to do the acknowledgement? I've just started some new on-line post-grad studies and part of O-Week was a recognition of owners of the lands we stand on. Let that sink in for a second. The Voice has been a complete disaster and as I've said before, the king makers of the Labor factions will be sharpening their knives. Airbus is going to be a one-term disaster.

 

[qldfrog]

Obviously not linked in any way with the fact a huge majority of Australia rejected the voice

Man charged with assault after 'citizen's arrest' of Indigenous child

A man filmed making threats and placing his foot on the head of an Indigenous child, while the suspended mayor of the Barkly council restrained the boy, will face court on a charge of aggravated assault.

www.abc.net.au

So home invasion should be responded by a bend over.

 

[SirRumpole]

Obviously not linked in any way with the fact a huge majority of Australia rejected the voice

Man charged with assault after 'citizen's arrest' of Indigenous child

A man filmed making threats and placing his foot on the head of an Indigenous child, while the suspended mayor of the Barkly council restrained the boy, will face court on a charge of aggravated assault.

www.abc.net.au

So home invasion should be responded by a bend over.

Strange that no mention was made of the age of the "child".

He could have been 9-16 and 15 year olds these days are more than capable of causing GBH or worse.

More selective reporting by the ABC it appears.

 

[farmerge]

Strange that no mention was made of the age of the "child".

He could have been 9-16 and 15 year olds these days are more than capable of causing GBH or worse.

More selective reporting by the ABC it appears.

Protected species are these "children"

 

[sptrawler]

Strange that no mention was made of the age of the "child".

He could have been 9-16 and 15 year olds these days are more than capable of causing GBH or worse.

More selective reporting by the ABC it appears.

We are glorifying crime at the moment, it wont be long before some of the outback towns will have complete breakdown of society.
How much has been done in Alice Springs, since the junket went there?

 

[sptrawler]

The other issue that is unfolding, is the drop off in tourism to the Alice Springs Uluru area, it will be a massive drop in earnings for the indigenous industries centered there. It is a long way to go, to look at a rock, I personally can't see the numbers recovering.
Interesting that Uluru numbers have dropped so much pre climb closure and post climb closure..

Central Australia sees 'massive drop' in visitor numbers, as new minister flags revitalisation plan

Businesses say cost-of-living pressures, expensive airfares and concerns around crime are contributing to a slump in tourism in Central Australia, where the drive market in particular is lagging.

www.abc.net.au

The Northern Territory's newly appointed tourism minister claims there is a strategy in place to revitalise Central Australia's tourism industry, which is continuing to haemorrhage millions of dollars in lost visitation.

Key points:​

• Central Australian tourism is continuing to struggle, as the drive market lags behind
• Some businesses have reported a drop in bookings of up to 50 per cent compared to last year
• Operators say cost of living pressures, expensive airfares and crime concerns are to blame

Minister Joel Bowden, who was promoted to the role late last month, said there were plans to invest more in the drive market and attract domestic and international tourists, but he was "yet to get across" the details of it.

Visitor numbers to Uluru have also stayed sluggish, with year-to-date visitor numbers of 164,678, compared with more than 300,000 in 2017.

 

[qldfrog]

The other issue that is unfolding, is the drop off in tourism to the Alice Springs Uluru area, it will be a massive drop in earnings for the indigenous industries centered there. It is a long way to go, to look at a rock, I personally can't see the numbers recovering.
Interesting that Uluru numbers have dropped so much pre climb closure and post climb closure..

Central Australia sees 'massive drop' in visitor numbers, as new minister flags revitalisation plan

Businesses say cost-of-living pressures, expensive airfares and concerns around crime are contributing to a slump in tourism in Central Australia, where the drive market in particular is lagging.

www.abc.net.au

The Northern Territory's newly appointed tourism minister claims there is a strategy in place to revitalise Central Australia's tourism industry, which is continuing to haemorrhage millions of dollars in lost visitation.

Key points:​

• Central Australian tourism is continuing to struggle, as the drive market lags behind
• Some businesses have reported a drop in bookings of up to 50 per cent compared to last year
• Operators say cost of living pressures, expensive airfares and crime concerns are to blame

Minister Joel Bowden, who was promoted to the role late last month, said there were plans to invest more in the drive market and attract domestic and international tourists, but he was "yet to get across" the details of it.

Visitor numbers to Uluru have also stayed sluggish, with year-to-date visitor numbers of 164,678, compared with more than 300,000 in 2017.

My point is that why would you even visit Ayers Rock if you can not climb it.
It is a looooong way from Alice , which then lead to why would you go to Alice ..well why bother at all going to NT central areas
This is not in my recommendation to any family or friend anymore

 

[sptrawler]

My point is that why would you even visit Ayers Rock if you can not climb it.
It is a looooong way from Alice , which then lead to why would you go to Alice ..well why bother at all going to NT central areas
This is not in my recommendation to any family or friend anymore

Very true, I've been to Ayers rock and Alice Springs six times over the years, now that it can't be climbed it doesn't probably justify the expense of going there, also since the airport was built there it reduced the amount of tourists going to Alice Springs en route to Uluru.

So now Alice Springs has lost a lot of its charm and flavour and has just become another outback town overrun by crime and anti social behaviour, years ago people stopped for a week and explored the town and the McDonald Ranges, these days I would be surprised in tourists stayed in town more than enough time required to fuel up.

 

[macca]

Very true, I've been to Ayers rock and Alice Springs six times over the years, now that it can't be climbed it doesn't probably justify the expense of going there, also since the airport was built there it reduced the amount of tourists going to Alice Springs en route to Uluru.

So now Alice Springs has lost a lot of its charm and flavour and has just become another outback town overrun by crime and anti social behaviour, years ago people stopped for a week and explored the town and the McDonald Ranges, these days I would be surprised in tourists stayed in town more than enough time required to fuel up.

If we consider that a high % of people touring around the outback are elderly grey nomads, then obviously they are going to avoid places with street violence.

The caravan forums have had a few threads on this, AS and Fitzroy Crossing, Broome and a few other places are being avoided or folk are driving straight through.

When it was safer they would stop for a week to rest and have a look around, now it is fill up and keep on going.

If the Elders want people to stop then they need to fix the problems so people feel safe

 

[IFocus]

You can all rest easy Warrens got it under control he will fix it all up and also keeping those nasty elites away.


"Anti-Indigenous Voice campaigner Warren Mundine has been given 3 million shares worth over $520,000 in a uranium exploration and mining company for his role as “non-executive director”.

Mundine was given the shares in Aura Energy in two batches in less than a year, on top of his “cash” salary of $40,000 a year, shows the company’s annual report, released last week.

For his part-time role at the mining company, the “anti-elite” campaigner — who, with Senator Jacinta Price, was the face of the “No” campaign against the Voice — has been paid at least $583,928 in his first 18 months."

Mundine's $400,000-plus mining bonanza - The Klaxon

Anti-Indigenous Voice campaigner Warren Mundine has been given 3 million “loan funded” shares in a uranium company — with $390,000 in reported remuneration as “non-executive director” in just his first 18 months.

theklaxon.com.au

 

[IFocus]

Gooniyandi man Mervyn Street was born under a tree on Louisa Downs station in the 1940s or the 1950s: no-one is able to settle on an exact date.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised that this article contains images and descriptions of people who have died.

Both his parents worked on the same station, located in the centre of WA's Kimberley region, for most of their lives, but they never earned a wage.

They're the reason he chose to bring a class action against the WA government on behalf of thousands of Aboriginal Australians who had their wages withheld while subject to onerous legislation.

Now, pending Federal Court approval, the government has agreed to pay up to $180.4 million to eligible Aboriginal workers, their spouses and children, including $15.4 million in legal costs to settle this class action.

The stockman who turned 'black pennies' into a $180m Indigenous stolen wages settlement

Less than a century ago, Indigenous men were paid in small stone "coupons" for their work on cattle stations. Now, Mervyn Street has helped win those workers and their families landmark compensation.

www.abc.net.au

 

[farmerge]

My point is that why would you even visit Ayers Rock if you can not climb it.
It is a looooong way from Alice , which then lead to why would you go to Alice ..well why bother at all going to NT central areas
This is not in my recommendation to any family or friend anymore

Mt Augustus a much bigger monolith and a lot closer than Ayers Rock.

 

[sptrawler]

You can all rest easy Warrens got it under control he will fix it all up and also keeping those nasty elites away.


"Anti-Indigenous Voice campaigner Warren Mundine has been given 3 million shares worth over $520,000 in a uranium exploration and mining company for his role as “non-executive director”.

Mundine was given the shares in Aura Energy in two batches in less than a year, on top of his “cash” salary of $40,000 a year, shows the company’s annual report, released last week.

For his part-time role at the mining company, the “anti-elite” campaigner — who, with Senator Jacinta Price, was the face of the “No” campaign against the Voice — has been paid at least $583,928 in his first 18 months."

Mundine's $400,000-plus mining bonanza - The Klaxon

Anti-Indigenous Voice campaigner Warren Mundine has been given 3 million “loan funded” shares in a uranium company — with $390,000 in reported remuneration as “non-executive director” in just his first 18 months.

theklaxon.com.au

No point in firing up a hate campaign, it was a pretty conclusive vote and just because it didn't get up doesn't mean things aren't being done.

I'm sure there are many high profile people from the 'Yes" campaign, that received payment for their jobs also, many actually donated shareholder money from memory.

How many shares do you think the Wesfarmers, Rio and BHP execs, who gave the money to the Yes campaign, got this reporting season?
(Wesfarmers has donated $2 million to the Yes campaign ahead of the referendum on the Indigenous Voice, following donations from mining giants BHP and Rio Tinto.)

Ben Wyatt from the Yes campaign probably was also given shares by Rio, one would think, does that mean he falls under the same auspices as Mundine and therefore deserves the same criticism.

Former WA treasurer joins Rio Tinto board

Former West Australian Treasurer and Aboriginal Affairs Minister Ben Wyatt has joined the board of Rio Tinto, a year after its destruction of Juukan Gorge.

thewest.com.au

Ben Wyatt lends star power to Voice Yes campaign

The former senior McGowan Government Minister turned corporate high-flyer says he’s ‘very optimistic’ WA will back the Voice, despite polling showing support in the State is among the nation’s lowest.

thewest.com.au

From your post:

The stockman who turned 'black pennies' into a $180m Indigenous stolen wages settlement

Less than a century ago, Indigenous men were paid in small stone "coupons" for their work on cattle stations. Now, Mervyn Street has helped win those workers and their families landmark compensation.

www.abc.net.au

As I said during the 'voice' presentation, IMO it is far better to address the grievances, than to entrench a two tier society.
It would appear, you are more bitter about Labor losing the vote, than resolving the underlying aboriginal disadvantage issue.
As do those who took the junket to Alice Springs a while back, tokenism needs to replaced by action, as with the wages issue above.

Just because you disagree with Mundine and Price, doesn't make them a bad person and you a good person, it just means you have a different belief on how to address the issue, hopefully Albo re engages with the issue and the vindictiveness can stop.