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The Voice

Yes, so let's just put on a 'rental tax' on every home owner in the country. That would go down well with the electorate wouldn't it ?
It doesn't have to be that, it could be a levy as per the medicare levy and it could be for a defined period, but the aboriginals have to agree to enter into agreed outcomes. Where they take some responsibility for their furtherment, rather than us just throwing money at half ar$ed businesses, with no mutual obligation to making sure they are successful.
Whatever is done the problem isn't going away and the whites just throwing money at them so that their health issues worsen, isn't working and the root cause is they have an excuse, the whites stole our land.
Well sort that out, then make them responsible, giving them a voice to continue to complain isn't the answer, it just acknowledges the problem which we have done endlessly before.
 
Whoa there Sapphire!

Who took their land from them? Being immigrants It wasn't you or your family, and as immigrants it certainly wasn't my family either.

How do you differentiate?

What if you have both indigenous and colonist heritage? Should your European blood pay compensation to you indigenous blood?

Should a genuine refugee from Somalia also pay this restitution?

(This already happens via taxation btw)

Such a proposition can only result in rorts and division.
 
That is how we got to where we are, 20 years ago there were 600,000, now there are 800,000, in 10 years there will be 1.2 million.
They need to get a handle on this and bring it to some sort of conclusion, pretending it will just go away wont happen, that is unless there is a war and China take us over then the issue would be self resolving.
At the moment everyone and their best mate are calling themselves aboriginal, get a ruling happening, get a compensation to the full bloods and get the rest off their ar$es and on the road to meaningful employment, is my call.
This constant BS on and on, is just extrapolating the problem out more and more, it has become a joke and needs resolving once and for all, the voice ain't the way to do it, it's just more BS IMO.
Once the compensation is paid, a refugee from Somalia when they arrive here there wont be a payment, but everyone who is here ATM needs to take one for the team, to finish it IMO.
This woke nonsense will eventually make it happen anyway, so putting off the inevitable only makes it worse, if it is negotiated correctly it would make further claims null and void and extra welfare past an agreed date redundant, then there are measurable outcomes.
I'm not suggesting it is right or wrong, I'm saying this issue needs to have a full stop put after it and saying they are special in the constitution only adds to the problem IMO.
Make a payment, increase taxes to pay off the payment, job and finish.
The way it is going IMO, it will end up as @SirRumpole says an ongoing levy on landowners, which the Govt wouldn't mind, because it takes the problem off their books.
It ain't rocket science, we are being fed a bunny, either make it a one of, or wear it forever is my call.

As usual only my personal thoughts, which are worth about as much as I charge for them. ?
I actually said all this on the forum, back when Kev made the apology, I said use the GFC stimulus as a compensation payment. Nothing has changed, only what it is going to cost.

Based on the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) projections, the number of Indigenous Australians in 2021 was estimated to be 881,600. The Indigenous Australian population is projected to reach about 1.1 million people by 2031 (ABS 2019b).
 
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Our local land council has maybe 10% local ATSI people (possibly 2000 people probably less?) all the rest are mixed race or blow ins from other mobs.

They currently own land worth at least $20mill, how do we carve that up as an act of reconciliation to bring the stalemate to a close?
 
That's exactly right, until they cut through the BS and throw everything in the ring, there cant be a tally summed up, just constant winging, when they have already been given heaps, but that is never mentioned.
 
A recent example I'm aware of is a major construction project. Long story short the various approvals etc required an Aboriginal overseer on site at all times, without which work could not proceed. This was to ensure the company complied with conditions etc.

End result was a lot of 4 hour working days and more than a few where no work was done at all.

Meanwhile the workers actually doing the job were being paid normal full days no matter what happened.

Australia quite simply can't afford this sort of thing. Fair enough to protect heritage and so on but that approach is just ridiculous.

No comment as to what company's project it was but in the energy industry.
 
And it is obviously going to get worse unless it is sorted. It wont get sorted unless an agreed outcome is found and I'm sure it wont be a voice to parliament.
 
And it is obviously going to get worse unless it is sorted. It wont get sorted unless an agreed outcome is found and I'm sure it wont be a voice to parliament.
Restitution ain't it either. That is as divisive as it comes.

I think we all want to lend a hand, but throwing money about has proven to be ineffective. We've tried that to the tube of freaking billions.

It's not the answer.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, a traditional lifestyle doesn't require money, " never did, never will do".

That leaves non tradition indigenous............
 
A win for the Voice could backfire, also. If it becomes abundantly clear to even the simplest citizen that every statement from the Voice is a brazen grab for more of the taxpayer's money, for more special consideration, knocking down our statues, for changing the accepted names of our places and so on, then the general public's sympathy for the indigenous plight might be sorely tested. It could be more polarising than is perceived.

A Coalition in opposition (even a Labor one for that matter, in time) willing to cut spending on the ATSI sector, and tell a rapacious Voice to basically "talk to the hand, girlfriend", might have a path back to power. OTOH, maaaybe a prudent ATSI Voice might be able to keep their demands more low key and mitigate that risk of alienating those who supported their cause. Lol, MAYBE!
 
Agree completely, but until you get them to put a line under what they want, it is a never ending wish list only limited by what can be dreamed up next.
 
Not a single word was relevant to the referendum proposal.
But luckily for you that type of post is not so rare in this thread.
Yet another deflection. I'm not interested in arguing with ChatGPT.

About the Referendum: .'Marry in Haste, Repent at Leisure'. .And folks, you will repent, most especially the farmers and landholders. Oh, and the taxpayers.
 
Regardless of the outcome of the referendum, the sun will still rise and life will go on.


Even after comments that appear to be designed to alienate and cause division, like the Hon Linda Burney's comment "spreading Donald Trump-like dishonesty was the “modus operandi” of the no campaign", I believe that we are a mature enough society to find the truth.

However, regardless of whose truth we take, part of the process of getting it and believing it is to find out as much as possible. A referendum process must and should include both sides of the question to debate and discuss in equal and fair measure.

My caution side tells me that if part of the discussion requires extra assistance in the form of belittling comments there is something to fear with the process.

Each day I read something new from the Yes and No sides, and I find nuggets of truth and determination from both. I love the Aboriginal Australia, I believe that it is important for our strength, determination and future prospects. But just because I love something does not mean that I will blindly follow the powerful and the loud.

I will continue to gather information and share it so that I and others are better informed for when the time comes for us to vote. Because at the end of it The Indigenous voice to parliament will be a permanent, independent, representative advisory body for First Nations people to advise the Australian government.


The Australian constitution has served us well during my 56 years of life. Our laws ensure that all people are treated equally, and if they are not we have processes in place to protect and improve.

The fear is that making a change to the constitution which will allocate a power of some form to a group that believe themselves a seperate nation within a nation is a door into the unknown.

We are told by the Yes side that it is only recognition of the aboriginal people into our constitution, and we are told by the No side that it is a form of power distribution.

As Australian citizens do we not all have a right to equality regardless of class and race? I believe we all do, so why are some wanting to create a new category of people in the constitution? From what I understand it is so that poverty, poor living conditions, health issues and racism can be overcome. Recognition and the voice will help policy makers make better policies to help Indigenous peoples achieve better outcomes.

How? Who will people be chosen to be the voice in parliament? Will there be elections? What are the rules for selection of people wanting to b part of the voice? Can any Australian citizen be part of the voice group?

"it is misleading to suggest that Indigenous Australians currently have no voice to parliament when each Indigenous Australian has an equal vote to anyone else and, importantly, each state and territory has a minister for Aboriginal affairs, and federally we have a minister for Indigenous Australians. These portfolios liaise directly with many Indigenous stakeholders. Indigenous Australians, like all Australians, have many voices to parliament already."

 
 
“All those voices rising across Australia like the headwaters of 1000 creeks and rivers joining into a mighty current – a chance to walk together as one to a better future.”

By RHIANNON DOWN

Good to see Rhiannon getting some of her work published.
I went to school with two of her Brothers, Ben and Eider.
Mick
 
Linda Birney just said in Parliament that her life expectancy is 8 years shorter than the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.

Based on what ?

A well fed, well nourished Aboriginal person has the same life expectancy as anyone else in the country.

If not, the difference must be genetic, a factor which is above the ability of anyone to solve.

I wish people would stick to facts, not emotional nonsense.
 
I believe that we are a mature enough society to find the truth.
In theory I agree.

But when I look at the mess that's been made in other areas, over an extended period, it seems that finding the truth can take an extremely long time.

To the point that a child born the day the issue commences may well be retired by the time it's resolved and I mean that quite literally. We certainly have other areas where we're still sorting out issues from decades ago.

Therein lies the problem. It gets sorted eventually but most will be more concerned about what happens in their own lifetime and these things can move incredibly slowly.
 
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