The Voice

[orr]

Just because Jacinta wants to drag indigenous people into the modern world doesn't make her an "aunty Tom".

If you wish to placard your ignorance? you're no stand out, crowded room here.
On futherment of Indigenous Development I'll put the work of Prof Peter Yu forward . ( Ever heard of him rumpole? ) Whilst Price is out being duchessed by Easten Star Crack and Frac, off load those Wheat Board Shares, Kings School Sydney olde' boy John Anderson( not an elite of course). Wonder where Jacinta's kiddies will go to school; I'd hazzard a guess.
Is there a party more toady to mining than the Nationals?
Oh what the minerals council carn't do for you! Pulverise a peoples history to dust. There's a name for that type of thing, you learn it at the better schools.

The empircal fact is Price has the support of one in four of her Indigenous constituants on the threads issue.... one Box big tick, Stings doesn't it. The best part of 75% think She's keeping them down.
And Peter Yu? he's a lifter.

Is it two olympic class swimming pools and one Polo rink or is it two Polo rinks and pool at Kings ? I can never remember....

 

[SirRumpole]

The empircal fact is Price has the support of one in four of her Indigenous constituants on the threads issue.... one Box big tick, Stings doesn't it.

If that is so then it's because her detractors would like to continue living a life on the public purse instead of coming into the real world.

Interesting that JNP is saying the same thing as Warren Mundine but she cops most of the flack.

Maybe a bit of sexism from the "Left" ?\

 

[IFocus]

So nothing new here, a real piece of work
That it got a 'like', shows who the racists really are, absolute lack of any class whatsoever.
You two make Dutton look good.

Can't handle the truth, you don't get it?

Bernard King sums up the out come.


"Australia now occupies a unique position globally. It is the only colonial settler society in the world that not only does not recognise in any way those dispossessed by colonialism, but whose citizens have actively rejected any such recognition.

Just as it transforms the status of Australia’s constitution, so it transforms the relationship between white Australia and First Peoples. There are predictable calls from both the prime minister and Peter Dutton that the result shouldn’t divide us. That is to deny the brutal reality of No and the strength with which it was uttered. There are no Yes voters and No voters, Anthony Albanese said on Saturday night.

Whether that’s true or not, there are First Peoples and non-Indigenous Australians, and the gulf between them has widened catastrophically because of the actions of the latter. Not merely can there now be no recognition, but there can be no reconciliation. The perpetrator of a historic wrong has slapped away a good-faith offer to move forward in unity. Despite the No camp’s claims about the “divisiveness” of the Voice, this result will permanently, or at least for generations, divide white Australia from Indigenous peoples. Calls for unity now aren’t merely hollow, they’re an insult — an offer of the “unity” of erasure and assimilation."

Australia is now a legal fiction

Far from maintaining the status quo, the No vote reduces the Australian constitution to a legal fiction predicated on the lie that First Peoples were not dispossessed by white invasion.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Can't handle the truth, you don't get it?

Bernard King sums up the out come.


"Australia now occupies a unique position globally. It is the only colonial settler society in the world that not only does not recognise in any way those dispossessed by colonialism, but whose citizens have actively rejected any such recognition.

Just as it transforms the status of Australia’s constitution, so it transforms the relationship between white Australia and First Peoples. There are predictable calls from both the prime minister and Peter Dutton that the result shouldn’t divide us. That is to deny the brutal reality of No and the strength with which it was uttered. There are no Yes voters and No voters, Anthony Albanese said on Saturday night.

Whether that’s true or not, there are First Peoples and non-Indigenous Australians, and the gulf between them has widened catastrophically because of the actions of the latter. Not merely can there now be no recognition, but there can be no reconciliation. The perpetrator of a historic wrong has slapped away a good-faith offer to move forward in unity. Despite the No camp’s claims about the “divisiveness” of the Voice, this result will permanently, or at least for generations, divide white Australia from Indigenous peoples. Calls for unity now aren’t merely hollow, they’re an insult — an offer of the “unity” of erasure and assimilation."

Australia is now a legal fiction

Far from maintaining the status quo, the No vote reduces the Australian constitution to a legal fiction predicated on the lie that First Peoples were not dispossessed by white invasion.

www.crikey.com.au

Bernard King the TV chef ?

He's dead.

 

[IFocus]

Bernard King the TV chef ?

He's dead.

Haha spell checker got me try Keane

The point is the whole shebang (recognition, progress) is dead, what's really telling about Jacinta Price and the Coalitions position in all of this to give cover to their behaviors'.

Straight after they ran the we must have a Royal Commission into child sexual abuse anyone that opposes is bad and that the most marginal people in Australia are despicable so don't feel bad about voting No.

Since 1997 there have been 33 enquiries into the area.

This is against the recommendation from those working on front line who are under resourced that Price throws bricks at.

So the fix is to have another one just to remind everyone how bad these people are.

Ugly stuff, to top it off Price is off to attack the Trans community another marginalised group.

 

[wayneL]

Haha spell checker got me try Keane

The point is the whole shebang (recognition, progress) is dead, what's really telling about Jacinta Price and the Coalitions position in all of this to give cover to their behaviors'.

Straight after they ran the we must have a Royal Commission into child sexual abuse anyone that opposes is bad and that the most marginal people in Australia are despicable so don't feel bad about voting No.

Since 1997 there have been 33 enquiries into the area.

This is against the recommendation from those working on front line who are under resourced that Price throws bricks at.

So the fix is to have another one just to remind everyone how bad these people are.

Ugly stuff, to top it off Price is off to attack the Trans community another marginalised group.

I reckon if the current misinformation/disinformation bill was fair dinkum, our resident delusional galah would probably be in jail already.

This post is second only to orr's post above in its disgrace. Contrary to what they think they are saying, they are setting back unity between communities, via propaganda and disinformation.

We should reflect on who the actual enemies in society are. It is obvious that the purveyors of racism and division in our society, is actually the extreme left, evidence of which is staring us right in the face in the few posts above this.

 

[JohnDe]

Listening to Radio National in the car yesterday, I heard an interview with an indigenous elder from the NSW land council. The discussion was about the referendum and the recently delivered open letter. First thing I came away with is that the majority of Australians that voted No have been categorized as either racist, or stupid for believing the racist. The next thing I learnt was that the Yes side are unable to look at themselves or believe that there are others with a different view on how the country should go forward.

The interviewer asked who the author of the letter was, he got berated for it. No name was given. Why?

22 October 2023

​

To the Prime Minister and every Member of the House of Representatives and the Senate of the Commonwealth Parliament

​

This is an open letter which will be circulated to the Australian public and media.

​

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have observed a week of silence across Australia since the outcome of the Referendum last Saturday 14 October 2023. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags have flown half-mast and we have refrained from media commentary, even as politicians, governments, media commentators and analysts have spent a week exonerating – and indeed, lauding – the nobility of the 60.8 per cent of Australians who voted to reject Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the First Peoples of Australia.

​

These are the collective insights and views of a group of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander leaders, community members and organisations who supported Yes:

​

1. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are in shock and are grieving the result. We feel acutely the repudiation of our peoples and the rejection of our efforts to pursue reconciliation in good faith. That people who came to our country in only the last 235 years would reject the recognition of this continent’s First Peoples – on our sacred land which we have cared for and nurtured for more than 65,000 years – is so appalling and mean-spirited as to be utterly unbelievable a week following. It will remain unbelievable and appalling for decades to come.
2. We thank the 5.51 million Australians who voted Yes to recognition. This represents approximately 39.2 per cent of Australian voters on 14 October 2023. At the 2022 Federal Election the Australian Labor Party received support from 32.58 per cent of voters, the Liberal Party 23.89 per cent, the National Party 3.6 per cent and One Nation 4.96 per cent. We thank those Australians who gave Yes more support at this Referendum than they did to any political party.
3. We acknowledge the resounding Yes vote in discrete and remote Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities. The high levels of support for Yes in our communities exposes the No Campaign’s lies, taken up by the media even in the last week of the campaign. The situation of these communities needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.
4. Australia is our country. We accept that the majority of non-Indigenous voting Australians have rejected recognition in the Australian Constitution. We do not for one moment accept that this country is not ours. Always was. Always will be. It is the legitimacy of the non-Indigenous occupation in this country that requires recognition, not the other way around. Our sovereignty has never been ceded.
5. The Constitution still belongs to those who the founding fathers originally intended it for and remains unchanged in our exclusion. We were asked to be recognised over a decade ago; we sought to be included in a meaningful way and that has been rejected. In refusing our peoples’ right to be heard on matters that affect us, Australia chose to make itself less liberal and less democratic. Our right to be heard continues to exist both as a democratic imperative for this nation, and as our inherent right to self- determination. The country can deny the former but not the latter. A 'founding document' without recognition of First Peoples of this country continues the process of colonisation. It is clear no reform of the Constitution that includes our peoples will ever succeed. This is the bitter lesson from 14 October.
6. The support for the referendum collapsed from the moment Liberal and National Party leaders, Mr Dutton and Mr Littleproud, chose to oppose the Voice to Parliament proposal after more than a decade of bipartisan support. The proposal was tracking 60 per cent support compared to 40 per cent opposition for several years until the National and Liberal parties preferred wanton political damage over support for some of this country’s most disadvantaged people. There was little the Yes campaign could do to countervail this.
7. Lies in political advertising and communication were a primary feature of this campaign. We know that the No campaign was funded and resourced by conservative and international interests who have no stake or genuine interest in the lives of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. We know this funding supported multiple No campaigns that intentionally argued in varying directions to create doubt and fear in both non-Indigenous and Indigenous communities. This included resurrecting scare campaigns seen during the 1990s against land rights, but the scale of deliberate disinformation and misinformation was unprecedented, and it proliferated, unchecked, on social media, repeated in mainstream media and unleashed a tsunami of racism against our people. We know that the mainstream media failed our people, favouring ‘a false sense of balance’ over facts.
8. There has always been racism against First Nations people in Australia. It increased with multiple daily instances during the campaign and was a powerful driver for the No campaign. But this campaign went beyond just racism. ‘If you don't know - Vote No’ gave expression to ignorance and licensed the abandonment of civic responsibility on the part of many voters who voted No. This shameful victory belongs to the Institute of Public Affairs, the Centre for Independent Studies and mainstream media.
9. Post-referendum commentaries that exculpate those who voted No were expected as the usual kind of post-election approbation of the electorate. The truth is that the majority of Australians have committed a shameful act whether knowingly or not, and there is nothing positive to be interpreted from it. We needed truth to be told to the Australian people.
10. We will maintain the vision of the Uluru Statement from the Heart. We will continue to uphold the outcomes of the Uluru Dialogues to which more than 1,200 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people from across the country contributed – culminating in the Uluru Statement signed by 250 people on 26 May 2017. It is evident that many Australians are unaware of our cultures, our histories, or the racism imbued in the Australian Constitution. That so many Australian people believe there is no race or division on race in the current Australian Constitution speaks to the need for better education on Australian history and better civics education. We have faith that the upswelling of support through this Referendum has ignited a fire for many to walk with us on our journey towards justice. Our truths have been silenced for too long.
11. We want to talk with our people and our supporters about establishing – independent of the Constitution or legislation – an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to take up the cause of justice for our people. Rejection of constitutional recognition will not deter us from speaking up to governments, parliaments and to the Australian people. We have an agenda for justice in pursuit of our First Nations rights that sorely need a Voice – we will continue to follow our law and our ways, as our Elders and Ancestors have done.
12. We will regather in due course and develop a plan for our future direction. While this moment will be etched into Australia’s history forever, today we think of our children, and our children’s children. Our work continues as it has always done. We will continue to fight to seek justice for our peoples. We are three per cent of the population, and you are 97 per cent.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

in closing, point 12 ends with:

We are three per cent of the population, and you are 97 per cent.

and so, how's that divide defined by?

 

[Sean K]

"Australia now occupies a unique position globally. It is the only colonial settler society in the world that not only does not recognise in any way those dispossessed by colonialism, but whose citizens have actively rejected any such recognition.

I find this interesting, if it's actually true. All of the Americas was colonised, do they all have something in their constitution recognising the indigenous? Maybe they do.

The problem with your quote and point here Mr Galah, is that the referendum question was not about simply recognition. If it had have been, it would have got 95% support. Maybe 96.

 

[farmerge]

I reckon if the current misinformation/disinformation bill was fair dinkum, our resident delusional galah would probably be in jail already.

This post is second only to orr's post above in its disgrace. Contrary to what they think they are saying, they are setting back unity between communities, via propaganda and disinformation.

We should reflect on who the actual enemies in society are. It is obvious that the purveyors of racism and division in our society, is actually the extreme left, evidence of which is staring us right in the face in the few posts above this.

Wayne in the Toodyay Herald recently I saw an article by someone, obviously a Yes supporter, calling for a week's silence on the Voice being lost . Hip hip hoo ray silence is golden.

 

[farmerge]

I find this interesting, if it's actually true. All of the Americas was colonised, do they all have something in their constitution recognising the indigenous? Maybe they do.

The problem with your quote and point here Mr Galah, is that the referendum question was not about simply recognition. If it had have been, it would have got 95% support. Maybe 96.

Nah Sean all it was about was Show us the Money and plenty of it.

 

[Sean K]

Nah Sean all it was about was Show us the Money and plenty of it.

Yes, that's the aim of the Uluru Statement IN FULL, but four main reasons why the Voice failed, IMO:

1. The model. There was none. The much heralded Carma Langton report that the Voice was to be based on was simply a bunch of options for Government to consider when legislating it. If they had have legislated first, tested it out, showed how it does and doesn't work and tweaked accordingly, we could have voted on a polished product.
2. Potential for litigation holding up government processes. According to the Yes camp this was a scare campaign, but they were told that this was an issue and a fear in the community before the wording got out. All they had to do was add the words 'which are non-justiciable' after 'may make representations to government'. Why not include that if the Voice was not going to take matters to the High Court if the government of the day disagreed with them?
3. Access to the executive. There is no reason why the Voice should have had the constitutional right to make public servants listen to them, and if not, see point 2. The word 'executive' should have been taken out as was requested by the No side.
4. Once the government told people to look into the detail they realised this was not just about the Voice, but about implementing the Uluru Statement IN FULL, proudly announced by the PM on election night. Anyone who actually did their own due diligence realised the Voice was the gateway to Makarrata, so we were voting for that as well, not just recognition. Unfortunately, the detail of the Uluru Statement showed us what the real objectives were (as you point out farmer).

Contributing factors include: it's race based power; celebrities were recruited to sell it; anyone questioning it in the slightest was labelled a racist; Langton, Mayo et al had a very poor documented history of abusing White folk; mixed messages about a whole bunch of things including the length of the Uluru Statement; and, Team Albo/Burney were the worst front people in history to convince anyone of anything.

A statement recognising the 250 or so Aboriginal countries to be the first human inhabitants of this land would have easily got up.

 

[sptrawler]

Can't handle the truth, you don't get it?

Bernard King sums up the out come.


"Australia now occupies a unique position globally. It is the only colonial settler society in the world that not only does not recognise in any way those dispossessed by colonialism, but whose citizens have actively rejected any such recognition.

Just as it transforms the status of Australia’s constitution, so it transforms the relationship between white Australia and First Peoples. There are predictable calls from both the prime minister and Peter Dutton that the result shouldn’t divide us. That is to deny the brutal reality of No and the strength with which it was uttered. There are no Yes voters and No voters, Anthony Albanese said on Saturday night.

Whether that’s true or not, there are First Peoples and non-Indigenous Australians, and the gulf between them has widened catastrophically because of the actions of the latter. Not merely can there now be no recognition, but there can be no reconciliation. The perpetrator of a historic wrong has slapped away a good-faith offer to move forward in unity. Despite the No camp’s claims about the “divisiveness” of the Voice, this result will permanently, or at least for generations, divide white Australia from Indigenous peoples. Calls for unity now aren’t merely hollow, they’re an insult — an offer of the “unity” of erasure and assimilation."

Australia is now a legal fiction

Far from maintaining the status quo, the No vote reduces the Australian constitution to a legal fiction predicated on the lie that First Peoples were not dispossessed by white invasion.

www.crikey.com.au

Still no excuse to get yourself in the gutter, you speak of racism and then applaud that racist slurr. I would love Orr or yourself to say that comment in front of my aboriginal mates, It wouldn't end nicely.
I'm just astonished at your blatant rude, racist and downright degrading comment to an indigenous woman, whether you agree with her or not.
It just showed a disgraceful lack of basic manners.
From Orr,we'll it's par for course, from you, we'll I would expected better.

 

[IFocus]

Still no excuse to get yourself in the gutter, you speak of racism and then applaud that racist slurr. I would love Orr or yourself to say that comment in front of my aboriginal mates, It wouldn't end nicely.
I'm just astonished at your blatant rude, racist and downright degrading comment to an indigenous woman, whether you agree with her or not.
It just showed a disgraceful lack of basic manners.
From Orr,we'll it's par for course, from you, we'll I would expected better.

Huffing and puffing there some what, but deeply honored / humbled that you hold me (did) in such high esteem

My Aboriginal mates (if they were still alive) would be gutted reading this thread and its BS.

As for Price I have already defended her against an Uncle Tom slur back in the thread but took Orrs post to mean she is someone who advocates for the very wealthy elite, wealthy political elite (IPA), the wealthy media elite (Murdoch) saying what every white Australia wants to hear which is what happens.

 

[qldfrog]

Haha spell checker got me try Keane

The point is the whole shebang (recognition, progress) is dead, what's really telling about Jacinta Price and the Coalitions position in all of this to give cover to their behaviors'.

Straight after they ran the we must have a Royal Commission into child sexual abuse anyone that opposes is bad and that the most marginal people in Australia are despicable so don't feel bad about voting No.

Since 1997 there have been 33 enquiries into the area.

This is against the recommendation from those working on front line who are under resourced that Price throws bricks at.

So the fix is to have another one just to remind everyone how bad these people are.

Ugly stuff, to top it off Price is off to attack the Trans community another marginalised group.

The coalition..lol. .even in their dream, they are not at 60%
Yes. You have to drill this in
Australians as a large whole rejected that shameful apartheid Referendum.
You know, the deplorables, the toothless, the working people..
How surprising they were not keen to be legally declared as second class citizens and milk cows...
What a shock it must have been.
How dare they?

 

[IFocus]

The coalition..lol. .even in their dream, they are not at 60%
Yes. You have to drill this in
Australians as a large whole rejected that shameful apartheid Referendum.
You know, the deplorables, the toothless, the working people..
How surprising they were not keen to be legally declared as second class citizens and milk cows...
What a shock it must have been.
How dare they?

Where SP and I live they mostly agree with you (yes was 23% ish) plus some are toothless.

 

[SirRumpole]

I find this interesting, if it's actually true. All of the Americas was colonised, do they all have something in their constitution recognising the indigenous? Maybe they do.

Not really. The government was given the power to regulate trade with Indian tribes, but no recognition of them being the first peoples etc.

"Yes, Indians are mentioned in the US Constitution. They are mentioned only three times in the Constitution 1. The first two mentions are found in Article I and the fourteenth amendment, which exclude “Indians not taxed” from the counts for apportioning direct taxes and representatives to Congress among the states. The third reference is a grant of power to Congress in the commerce clause of Article I to “regulate Commerce with … the Indian Tribes” 1."

 

[IFocus]

The problem with your quote and point here Mr Galah, is that the referendum question was not about simply recognition. If it had have been, it would have got 95% support. Maybe 96.

It was written by white conservative's so no power was given, yet you and others think otherwise ?

 

[IFocus]

Shock horror.... not

 

[orr]

If that is so then it's because her detractors would like to continue living a life on the public purse instead of coming into the real world.

Interesting that JNP is saying the same thing as Warren Mundine but she cops most of the flack.

Maybe a bit of sexism from the "Left" ?\

You wish by any chance, Rumpole, to enlighten us to your critque of the efforts of Prof Peter Yu ? or any knowledge of him? ...didn't think so.

Trawler should be well aquanted with his, PeterYu's, work, being from WA'n all... I wonder what was it like back in the day Trawler voting for a party the had Iron Bar Tucky as rep? do you still feel unclean? I tradgically never had the chance. What do your indigenious mates think about your cuddling up to old Wilson's team?
And Trawler quote the first ten or so words of my post that has your knickers in a twist... go on: And then tell me what percentage of Mrs Price's indigenious constituents she represents on the voice issue; and the next couple ? Our military man here would know the parlance (Or should) it's called 'a shot over the bow' .... And anything you'd like to add about that non-elitist John anderson ... and tell the forum who is it that funds the IPA?? .... give you a hint she's big she's a bad poet and she's from WA..... and she has many pearls to clutch; So just like you Trawler. And her dad liked the idea of chemically castrating probably a few of your indigenious mates.

'Heh Makkarata'