The Voice

[SirRumpole]

Well it has kept the climate / energy issue, which has played at least some role in the demise of several PM's now, firmly out of the headlines and it has also swept aside what otherwise might've been significant media discussion of the housing crisis and that minor little statistic that Australia is now officially in recession on a per capita basis.

Regardless of the referendum outcome, the Voice will have enabled this government to get half way through its term and then it's Christmas so make that 60% of the way through in practice.

And if the Voice gets up they will spend the rest of the term setting it up and all the important stuff will be cast aside.

 

[sptrawler]

And if the Voice gets up they will spend the rest of the term setting it up and all the important stuff will be cast aside.

Which would be a stroke of genius, dance Maria, that's what it is all about. Throw a morsel to distract the pack, while hopefully pulling off the main game in the background.
The problem is I think the main game is turning ugly, not pretty, so it will be an interesting 12 months.

 

[Smurf1976]

That's a pretty cynical view

Just my observation that when there's bad things government doesn't want the focus to be on, that's when some grand idea surfaces.

Repblic, flag or changing the national anthem or something along those lines at the federal level.

At the state political level some sort of megaproject that nobody can prove or disprove the viability of or even whether the proponent is serious. Anything from a steel works to a football team will do it, any "big thing" that has uncertain viability, big impact if it did happen, and where no one individual can be tracked down and held to account.

Anything like that is guaranteed to clog up the newspapers and talkback radio for an extended period.

The Voice has, wrongly or rightly, had that same effect. It has almost completely shut down discussion on other matters some of which would be politically most inconvenient.

 

[sptrawler]

Just my observation that when there's bad things government doesn't want the focus to be on, that's when some grand idea surfaces.

Repblic, flag or changing the national anthem or something along those lines at the federal level.

At the state political level some sort of megaproject that nobody can prove or disprove the viability of or even whether the proponent is serious. Anything from a steel works to a football team will do it, any "big thing" that has uncertain viability, big impact if it did happen, and where no one individual can be tracked down and held to account.

Anything like that is guaranteed to clog up the newspapers and talkback radio for an extended period.

The Voice has, wrongly or rightly, had that same effect. It has almost completely shut down discussion on other matters some of which would be politically most inconvenient.

It is all turning ugly very quickly on most fronts IMO.
Politicians don't walk away, especially when they have strong support, something is going to blow that's for sure.

 

[SirRumpole]

Politicians don't walk away, especially when they have strong support,

Nine years in a fishbowl would take it's toll.

Others have done the same thing, Beatty and Bob Carr come to mind.

 

[sptrawler]

Nine years in a fishbowl would take it's toll.

Others have done the same thing, Beatty and Bob Carr come to mind.

Yes the timing may be coincidence.

 

[wayneL]

Hmmm

 

[moXJO]

Racism is back in a big way. Haven't seen it this bad since the 80s.
Labor had every opportunity to setup the voice first and let any nerves calm before enshrining it in the constitution. Instead we get this divisive sht puddle that's split not only Australians. But aboriginal communities.

Talk about grand fkups.

 

[sptrawler]

Racism is back in a big way. Haven't seen it this bad since the 80s.
Labor had every opportunity to setup the voice first and let any nerves calm before enshrining it in the constitution. Instead we get this divisive sht puddle that's split not only Australians. But aboriginal communities.

Talk about grand fkups.

Maybe it was designed to wedge the coalition and has backfired hugely, in the early days of this thread I mentioned Albo was playing the no lose game, if it passes it shines on his legacy if it fails he can say he tried.
The problem that has arisen IMO, they haven't factored in the reach of social media and the in depth conversations that have been carried out regarding the constitution and what it does, the unintended consequences that have come out of this reach further than the voice IMO.
It certainly hasn't done the republic argument any favours, it has united people in questioning the power of government and its agendas.
Interesting times ahead, huge own goal for Albo IMO.

 

[moXJO]

Maybe it was designed to wedge the coalition and has backfired hugely, in the early days of this thread I mentioned Albo was playing the no lose game, if it passes it shines on his legacy if it fails he can say he tried.
The problem that has arisen IMO, they haven't factored in the reach of social media and the in depth conversations that have been carried out regarding the constitution and what it does, the unintended consequences that have come out of this reach further than the voice IMO.
It certainly hasn't done the republic argument any favours, it has united people in questioning the power of government and its agendas.
Interesting times ahead, huge own goal for Albo IMO.

You have to question the strategy. The weird thing watching it all is the casual racism from the right. But also the absolute poisonous racism aimed at the aboriginals supporting the No position from the leftist elitist snobs. These same dipshits then preach they are on the side of "Love and tolerance". It's a lose- lose so far.

Regardless of the position of "yes" or "no". The voice was butchered and created some very deep divisions that will never be healed.
Is this what the left leaners want though?
Watching leaders like Ardern, Justin Trudeau and Dan Andrews there seems to be a lot of mileage in it.
It seems to happen with a weak opposition thats having trouble with what they stand for.

 

[sptrawler]

Talk about grand fkups.

Well another indicator they knew that it was always a mess, was the way they left it until the very last minute to announce the date, the media were calling Oct 14 weeks before it was announced.
Well it was announced on the 11 Sept, we are going away from 02 Oct, so rang and applied for a postal vote on the 12th.
We didn't receive the application form until the 19th, completed it and returned it the same day, received an email this morning 28th to say they had received the application form and were posting the voting forms. Bring back Cobb and Co.

Obviously there was some planning involved.

 

[TimeISmoney]

You have to question the strategy. The weird thing watching it all is the casual racism from the right. But also the absolute poisonous racism aimed at the aboriginals supporting the No position from the leftist elitist snobs. These same dipshits then preach they are on the side of "Love and tolerance". It's a lose- lose so far.

That's why most normal Australians will never like the hard leaning left, they justify their own unethical actions to suit their own agenda of the day. Racism is racism whether or not they think it is deserved and anyone who dares oppose their ideals is once again named racists or bigots or whatever insult they want to hurl. Because most of Australia ignores and tolerates it, they instantly think they have the upper hand. It's dumb politics in a country like Australia.

Spend some time with leftie political advisers and you'll see what a bunch of dicks they really are.
Oh, you need to buy electric cars, you need to get rid of diesel cars because very bad for the environment.
Just wait a sec, how many first-class plane fights to Europe do you take for climate control conventions, how many electric cars do you own?

The more I talk to them the less respect I have for them.

 

[UMike]

Get ready for more of this.

High price of Indigenous activists’ seismic win against Woodside Energy gas project​

Raelene Cooper.

• By PAUL GARVEY​

  SENIOR REPORTER
  @PDGarvey
• 9:05PM SEPTEMBER 28, 2023

Tens of billions of dollars of investment is in peril after a court found the federal regulator had failed to properly consult Aboriginal campaigners who are against the nation’s biggest energy development.
The Federal Court ruled on Thursday that the approval by the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority of a seismic survey program at Woodside Energy’s Scarborough gas field was invalid due to issues surrounding consultation with an Indigenous group opposed to the $16bn project.
The court decision comes amid debate about whether an Indigenous voice to parliament would open the door to more legal challenges from Indigenous groups.
The decision echoes a judgment from late last year which found Adelaide-based Santos had not adequately consulted with traditional owners over its proposed $4.7bn Barossa project in the Timor Sea.
It sparked criticism from the opposition, which accused the federal government of failing to act to address the regulatory loopholes identified in the Barossa decision and of funding the “green activists” behind the court challenges.
Scarborough is part of a $30bn investment that will double the capacity of Woodside’s Pluto LNG plant and extend the life of the project by decades. The development and Woodside’s associated Burrup Hub project have been targeted by Indigenous and environmental groups, which argue that its emissions will exacerbate climate change and damage rock art in the surrounding Burrup Peninsula.
Submissions released by the court on the eve of this week’s trial showed that Woodside had warned of “immediate, significant, and irrecoverable economic loss” if the seismic program was stalled.
Opposition resources spokeswoman Susan McDonald said the Albanese government had failed to fix the “broken” approvals process, harming domestic supply and the energy security of international partners in the process.
“The government has sat on its hands and done nothing to resolve a known issue which has ground approvals for offshore development to a halt,” she said.
“The Prime Minister needs to apologise to the people of Western Australia for impeding investment and jobs in the west.”
She said the government had spent millions of dollars funding the Environmental Defenders Office, which represented the woman who brought the legal action, Raelene Cooper, in the Woodside court challenge.
That funding, she said, would lead to more environmental legal activism. “The government needs to come clean about how much taxpayer money has gone towards torpedoing the future production of Australian natural gas,” she said.
A spokeswoman for Woodside said the company would continue to work with NOPSEMA to secure an accepted environmental plan (EP).
“The decision did not in any way criticise any action by Woodside. We have consulted extensively on our environment plans, dedicating time and effort so our approach to environmental management and EP consultation meets our current understanding of regulatory requirements and standards,” she said.
“We are continuing our engagements with all relevant stakeholders on the Seismic Survey EP and our other project EPs.”
The chief executive of oil and gas lobby group Australian Energy Producers, Samantha McCulloch, said investors in Australia’s resources sector faced increased uncertainty in the wake of the decision.
“Important energy projects which are following the rules, consulting in good faith and being granted approvals by the regulator are being impacted because unclear regulations and the application of them are effectively changing the goal posts. The time delays and costs incurred are substantial,” she said.
“More obstacles are being put in the way of critical energy developments, risking the new supply needed to deliver domestic energy security, emissions reductions and substantial economic returns for Australians.”
WA Opposition Leader Shane Love said the Woodside judgment showed that both federal and state governments had not done enough to set clear approval pathways since the Santos decision. “There’s a great deal of uncertainty around these issues now and a great deal of delay and problems being thrown in the path of the development of some of these fields, which I don’t think is in the national interest,” he said.
NOPSEMA, meanwhile, was scrambling on Thursday to digest what the latest decision means for its assessment of other projects.
The regulator had previously imposed conditions on the seismic program, noting that the decision was made amid “potential ambiguity” in the reading of environment regulations.
“NOPSEMA acknowledges the decision of the Federal Court, and is reviewing the reasons for the decision to ensure future regulatory actions are in accordance with the decision,” the regulator said in a statement.
Ms Cooper told The Australian that she was grateful for the court’s verdict. Ms Cooper is a former chair of the Murujuga Aboriginal Corporation, the body set up to represent the traditional owners of the Burrup Peninsula region. Since leaving MAC, she has been leading Save Our Songlines in their protests against ongoing development in the rock art-rich area.
She said Woodside had been “arrogant and ignorant” in its attempts to consult with her on the seismic program.
“They think they are above the law,” she said. “There’s no way in any circumstance that they’re above our law, my Indigenous law, our cultural law that’s been here since the beginning of time.”
Despite the win, Ms Cooper said she only expected the project to be stalled rather than stopped given the sums of money tied up in the project.
“All they are looking at are the dollar signs at the beginning and the end of it,” she said.
Scarborough is by far the biggest new gas project on the table in Australia, with the vast majority of its future gas production earmarked for Asia. In August, Japanese conglomerates Sumitomo Corporation and Sojitz Corporation agreed to buy a combined 10 per cent of Scarborough for $US880m ($1.38bn).
A spokesman for federal Resources Minister Madeleine King said the government was reviewing the reasons for the court’s decision. “The principle of judicial review is an important process that the Albanese government fully supports,” he said.

 

[Sean K]

Get ready for more of this.

High price of Indigenous activists’ seismic win against Woodside Energy gas project​

View attachment 163104Raelene Cooper.

• By PAUL GARVEY​

  SENIOR REPORTER
  @PDGarvey
• 9:05PM SEPTEMBER 28, 2023

Tens of billions of dollars of investment is in peril after a court found the federal regulator had failed to properly consult Aboriginal campaigners who are against the nation’s biggest energy development.
The Federal Court ruled on Thursday that the approval by the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority of a seismic survey program at Woodside Energy’s Scarborough gas field was invalid due to issues surrounding consultation with an Indigenous group opposed to the $16bn project.
The court decision comes amid debate about whether an Indigenous voice to parliament would open the door to more legal challenges from Indigenous groups.
The decision echoes a judgment from late last year which found Adelaide-based Santos had not adequately consulted with traditional owners over its proposed $4.7bn Barossa project in the Timor Sea.
It sparked criticism from the opposition, which accused the federal government of failing to act to address the regulatory loopholes identified in the Barossa decision and of funding the “green activists” behind the court challenges.
Scarborough is part of a $30bn investment that will double the capacity of Woodside’s Pluto LNG plant and extend the life of the project by decades. The development and Woodside’s associated Burrup Hub project have been targeted by Indigenous and environmental groups, which argue that its emissions will exacerbate climate change and damage rock art in the surrounding Burrup Peninsula.
Submissions released by the court on the eve of this week’s trial showed that Woodside had warned of “immediate, significant, and irrecoverable economic loss” if the seismic program was stalled.
Opposition resources spokeswoman Susan McDonald said the Albanese government had failed to fix the “broken” approvals process, harming domestic supply and the energy security of international partners in the process.
“The government has sat on its hands and done nothing to resolve a known issue which has ground approvals for offshore development to a halt,” she said.
“The Prime Minister needs to apologise to the people of Western Australia for impeding investment and jobs in the west.”
She said the government had spent millions of dollars funding the Environmental Defenders Office, which represented the woman who brought the legal action, Raelene Cooper, in the Woodside court challenge.
That funding, she said, would lead to more environmental legal activism. “The government needs to come clean about how much taxpayer money has gone towards torpedoing the future production of Australian natural gas,” she said.
A spokeswoman for Woodside said the company would continue to work with NOPSEMA to secure an accepted environmental plan (EP).
“The decision did not in any way criticise any action by Woodside. We have consulted extensively on our environment plans, dedicating time and effort so our approach to environmental management and EP consultation meets our current understanding of regulatory requirements and standards,” she said.
“We are continuing our engagements with all relevant stakeholders on the Seismic Survey EP and our other project EPs.”
The chief executive of oil and gas lobby group Australian Energy Producers, Samantha McCulloch, said investors in Australia’s resources sector faced increased uncertainty in the wake of the decision.
“Important energy projects which are following the rules, consulting in good faith and being granted approvals by the regulator are being impacted because unclear regulations and the application of them are effectively changing the goal posts. The time delays and costs incurred are substantial,” she said.
“More obstacles are being put in the way of critical energy developments, risking the new supply needed to deliver domestic energy security, emissions reductions and substantial economic returns for Australians.”
WA Opposition Leader Shane Love said the Woodside judgment showed that both federal and state governments had not done enough to set clear approval pathways since the Santos decision. “There’s a great deal of uncertainty around these issues now and a great deal of delay and problems being thrown in the path of the development of some of these fields, which I don’t think is in the national interest,” he said.
NOPSEMA, meanwhile, was scrambling on Thursday to digest what the latest decision means for its assessment of other projects.
The regulator had previously imposed conditions on the seismic program, noting that the decision was made amid “potential ambiguity” in the reading of environment regulations.
“NOPSEMA acknowledges the decision of the Federal Court, and is reviewing the reasons for the decision to ensure future regulatory actions are in accordance with the decision,” the regulator said in a statement.
Ms Cooper told The Australian that she was grateful for the court’s verdict. Ms Cooper is a former chair of the Murujuga Aboriginal Corporation, the body set up to represent the traditional owners of the Burrup Peninsula region. Since leaving MAC, she has been leading Save Our Songlines in their protests against ongoing development in the rock art-rich area.
She said Woodside had been “arrogant and ignorant” in its attempts to consult with her on the seismic program.
“They think they are above the law,” she said. “There’s no way in any circumstance that they’re above our law, my Indigenous law, our cultural law that’s been here since the beginning of time.”
Despite the win, Ms Cooper said she only expected the project to be stalled rather than stopped given the sums of money tied up in the project.
“All they are looking at are the dollar signs at the beginning and the end of it,” she said.
Scarborough is by far the biggest new gas project on the table in Australia, with the vast majority of its future gas production earmarked for Asia. In August, Japanese conglomerates Sumitomo Corporation and Sojitz Corporation agreed to buy a combined 10 per cent of Scarborough for $US880m ($1.38bn).
A spokesman for federal Resources Minister Madeleine King said the government was reviewing the reasons for the court’s decision. “The principle of judicial review is an important process that the Albanese government fully supports,” he said.

This will be The Voice, on steroids. There's no scare campaigning here, it's a plain and simple example of where this all goes.

 

[IFocus]

Noooo its worse Australia will become Communist ruled by Mayo, its true read about it in the Australian newspaper.

 

[SirRumpole]

Noooo its worse Australia will become Communist ruled by Mayo, its true read about it in the Australian newspaper.

The issue is that if Aboriginal people challenge any form of development and infrastructure that affects land use, then this country is going to be strangled and ruled by a small minority rather than for the benefit of all.

 

[UMike]

The issue is that if Aboriginal people challenge any form of development and infrastructure that affects land use, then this country is going to be strangled and ruled by a small minority rather than for the benefit of all.

But the challenges are ludicrous.
If they is legitimate concern fair enough but most of it is sabotage

 

[Sean K]

It’s interesting that Land Councils have only relatively recently being rebadged as Land and Sea or Land and Water. Happy to be corrected there.

But, since when did Aboriginals own water hundreds of kilometers off shore? Or, even further than one kilometer? Their largest canoes were about 5m long, max. It’s monumentally more absurd than China’s now 10 dash line.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The issue is that if Aboriginal people challenge any form of development and infrastructure that affects land use, then this country is going to be strangled and ruled by a small minority rather than for the benefit of all.

They can't even properly manage the funding they receive, just imagine what would happen if they co-govern. Companies will be packing up left, right, and center, and fleeing Australia.

It’s interesting that Land Councils have only relatively recently being rebadged as Land and Sea or Land and Water. Happy to be corrected there.

But, since when did Aboriginals own water hundreds of kilometers off shore? Or, even further than one kilometer? Their largest canoes were about 5m long, max. It’s monumentally more absurd than China’s now 10 dash line.

Since when have Australian courts believed in mythical ideology over science? This stuff is becoming out of control, and it's no longer about closing the gap as they say, and Albo sure is the trickster that many try to paint.

Noooo its worse Australia will become Communist ruled by Mayo, its true read about it in the Australian newspaper.

It was never about the voice and you know it, nobody voted for the voice from the land councils. The group that formed the Uluru committee added it to the treaty, sovereignty, and truth-telling so they all had to vote for it even though they rejected it in the first place.

 

[SirRumpole]

and Albo sure is the trickster that many try to paint.

I think he's genuine in what he says, but he's going with emotion without thinking out all the implications.