The Voice

[JohnDe]

Are you sure about that ?

The IPA are as far Right as the Greens are Left in my humble opinion.

That doesn't mean they are wrong all the time, but neither are the Greens.

 

[IFocus]

I'm supporting my own position that the current framing of the Voice proposal has knobs on it and has been completely cocked up by Labor. I might 'like' any comment that supports that position. As a Mod, my only role is to try and maintain the ASF rules of posting, code of conduct, and deleting spam.

Not that I am bothered (no body gets killed) but you are actually backing trolling not a great look I suspect being called a peace of **** is against the rules and fails basic integrity clearly you support it

 

[Sean K]

Not that I am bothered (no body gets killed) but you are actually backing trolling not a great look I suspect being called a peace of **** is against the rules and fails basic integrity clearly you support it

Sorry, I must have missed that abuse. I'm a volunteer and have a life. I spend a lot of time travelling, walking my dog and going to the gym. Some abuse slips through Mr Focus, but not when I am personally abused.

 

[wayneL]

Not that I am bothered (no body gets killed) but you are actually backing trolling not a great look I suspect being called a peace of **** is against the rules and fails basic integrity clearly you support it

Is calling people scaremongers and racists when clearly untrue, trolling?

 

[wayneL]

Are you sure about that ?

The IPA are as far Right as the Greens are Left in my humble opinion.

That doesn't mean they are wrong all the time, but neither are the Greens.

It's true to say that the IPA is right wing. Some of their positions I personally wouldn't be comfortable with, even if I agree with much if it.

Don't forget the IPA is a think tank, not a political party running for election. What a think tank may postulate ideologically may not be workable policy for a parliamentary party.

But, to point out that somebody speaks at a think tank event, as if some sort of automatic disparagement reveals a purulent bias. Vis a vis our friend here confirms his raging bias.

Additionally, the Wikipedia entry may not reflect their thinking very accurately, having been extensively edited by activists.

FWIW

 

[wayneL]

It's true to say that the IPA is right wing. Some of their positions I personally wouldn't be comfortable with, even if I agree with much if it.

Don't forget the IPA is a think tank, not a political party running for election. What a think tank may postulate ideologically may not be workable policy for a parliamentary party.

But, to point out that somebody speaks at a think tank event, as if some sort of automatic disparagement reveals a purulent bias. Vis a vis our friend here confirms his raging bias.

Additionally, the Wikipedia entry may not reflect their thinking very accurately, having been extensively edited by activists.

FWIW

Just to expand on this point, many here might remember that I was actually a member of a think tank in the UK. We were basically a faction within the UK Liberal Democrats called the Orange Bookers.

The Orange Book - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the time we were often at odds with the parliamentary party, the current party being an absolute anathema to what we espoused. The left wing of the party hated us even more than they hated the Tories

 

[wayneL]

Note they like slave labour

BTW

Tell me this isn't a putrid little troll.

 

[SirRumpole]

Just to expand on this point, many here might remember that I was actually a member of a think tank in the UK. We were basically a faction within the UK Liberal Democrats called the Orange Bookers.

The Orange Book - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Even at the time we were often at odds with the parliamentary party, the current party being an absolute anathema to what we espoused. The left wing of the party hated us even more than they hated the Tories

Do the Lib Dems still exist ?

 

[wayneL]

Do the Lib Dems still exist ?

Yes, but decimated at the last election, moved way too far left.

They are still a force in regional councils, controlling a few areas on that level.

 

[SirRumpole]

There are 11 "First Nation" MP's and Senators according to the ABC

There are 11 First Nations MPs and senators. Here's what they think of a Voice to Parliament

The 2022 federal election delivered record results for First Nations representation in parliament. Ahead of the referendum, the ABC contacted the 11 politicians to hear directly from them what they think about a constitutionally enshrined Voice to Parliament.

www.abc.net.au

There are 151 Lower House Seats + 76 Senate seats = 227 total

11/227*100 = 4.85% of total seats

At present, 3.2% of Australia's population identify as Aboriginal. [1]

Source: Aboriginal population in Australia - Creative Spirits, retrieved from https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-population-in-australia

So it seems that the Aboriginal population is over represented in Parliament and they still can't get things done.

Why will the Voice make a difference ?

 

[StockyGuy]

At present, 3.2% of Australia's population identify as Aboriginal. [1]

Lol the number might shoot up if mere identification ensures ya have some mob fighting like a union specifically for your interests in Canberra (forever).

 

[TimeISmoney]

/uploads/2023/08/

 

[Smurf1976]

Perhaps it should be denigrating Aboriginals what ever it doesn’t solve the problem which remains the No vote problem no alternative or solutions just the sky will fall in afraid it just doesn’t cut it

Looking at this from a different perspective, let's turn it upside down.

I'm working here on the premise that support for the Voice appears to be more from the political Left than the political Right. I can't prove that, but it appears to be the case and I'll work on that assumption.

So how would all this argument go if the proposed Voice wasn't about something the Left broadly supports but were instead reversed, a Voice for something the Left broadly oppose or at least have concerns about? Would that change the in-principle support for the idea?

Business has the Liberal party. Workers have Labor. Environment has The Greens. Farmers have the Nationals.

On that basis, and noting its crucial importance to the nation, I'll base my example on the concept of a resources Voice to parliament. This will ensure resource industries are adequately represented, noting their crucial role to the nation.

Now do you think The Greens or for that matter the Nationals will be happy with the idea that a group of people who tend to measure things in tonnes, barrels, cubic meters or gigawatt hours gain constitutionally enshrined access to parliament?

I think we both know the answer there. They'll be screaming extremely loudly against it.

Now I can take a pretty good guess what's going through your mind right now. You're probably thinking this example sounds awfully like not really wanting a Voice to parliament as such but simply a means to get approval to do something very specific that's otherwise problematic. Nuclear power perhaps? A dam somewhere controversial? Mining or drilling for oil in a National Park? Sounds rather suss that there's some pre-determined outcome doesn't it?

Now it's just a hypothetical example but it would be a reasonable concern yes, I absolutely can follow that the idea does look awfully suspicious that there's some grand plan broadly along those lines. It looks like the means to, in layman's terms, ram through some specific idea that others will strongly disagree with.

Now consider that many are having the same thoughts about the actually proposed Voice, the ATSI one. They're suspicious that there's some grand plan that most would oppose if asked directly.

The WA laws didn't help the case there. 1100m2 and 500mm depth. Even something as simple as planting a tree or digging out a stump on a larger suburban block seemed to fall within that. OK, so it seems that's now been repealed but the cat's out of the bag there, the idea scared the proverbial out of rather a lot of people.

From a personal perspective well I'll simply observe all this sure isn't helping the case for renewable energy. Based on what happened with one recent project, it's scared the **** out of many.

Australia's going to end up like the US or South Africa if we keep going this way with racial divisions and so on so it needs to be sorted in a manner that's clear cut and timely. The country needs to be united, not divided, if it's to prosper and indeed even survive in the long term.

By all means close the gap but do it for everyone, unite the nation not divide it.

 

[Smurf1976]

On the purely political side of this, I think many simply feel let down.

This government was elected with high hopes and started out well but has since become one eyed about a single issue, seemingly willing to sacrifice everything including itself to the alter of that cause.

Meanwhile we still have a housing crisis affecting both renters and home buyers.

The big two cities are still struggling with infrastructure and high rates of population growth, a problem the feds have made worse not better.

Even the mainstream public have become worried about the energy situation, it's no longer something simply of interest to engineers, scientists and so on.

The price of a wide range of goods and services is going up.

Hospitals are still visibly struggling in multiple states.

And so on. There's an awful lot of things government could be focusing on to the benefit of the majority that are seemingly being ignored. Bearing in mind that's the exact problem Labor was accused of prior to the present leadership, an excessive focus on minorities and taking the rest for granted.

This isn't going to end well for anyone.

 

[sptrawler]

Australia's going to end up like the US or South Africa if we keep going this way with racial divisions and so on so it needs to be sorted in a manner that's clear cut and timely. The country needs to be united, not divided, if it's to prosper and indeed even survive in the long term.

By all means close the gap but do it for everyone, unite the nation not divide it.

The attitude of it is my way or the highway isn't helping alay people's fears, if the Voice is so important, why would Albo come out and say there is no compromise, it si this or nothing.
Authoritarian attitudes might cut it during a pandemic, I'm not convinced people will appreciate it now, it just makes Albo look like a dictator which flies in the face of a referendum.
It is the way the whole Voice project has been presented, that has always made me ask, was it designed to fail? Thus giving Labor the opportunity to look caring, whichever way the outcome falls, I think it has backfired on them massively by making them look intolerant, arrogant and unbending.
Time will tell, if that attitude works outside Victoria.

PM warns there will be no other constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians if Voice fails

Anthony Albanese tells ABC's Insiders program Indigenous Australians want constitutional recognition and he is not considering any other options if the referendum fails.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has warned no other forms of Indigenous recognition will be on the table if the Voice referendum fails.
The prime minster rejected an alternate form of recognition for Indigenous Australians if the Voice referendum fails.

 

[SirRumpole]

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has warned no other forms of Indigenous recognition will be on the table if the Voice referendum fails.
The prime minster rejected an alternate form of recognition for Indigenous Australians if the Voice referendum fails.

I think he has to say that otherwise the 'undecided' will all go to No, thinking that it's the safer option.

 

[sptrawler]

I think he has to say that otherwise the 'undecided' will all go to No, thinking that it's the safer option.

The problem is it does fly in the face of the persona he presented pre election, maybe it wont have a lasting effect, time will tell.
Compromise is the sign of a good statesman, saying it is this or nothing, indicates he isn't that invested in a resolution.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The problem is it does fly in the face of the persona he presented pre election, maybe it wont have a lasting effect, time will tell.
Compromise is the sign of a good statesman, saying it is this or nothing, indicates he isn't that invested in a resolution.

He's trying to pander to the left, we're a capitalist country how well will that work?

 

[mullokintyre]

Ye, this how you convince people to vote yes.

Mick

 

[Sean K]

Oh dear, as someone who has the time and luxury to watch QT all day, Labor is hanging their hat on the Uluru Statement. I'm sure a few people voted for it, but I doubt they actually knew what is was about.