The transition to Futures trading

[dead trader]

I'm also very interested in the answer to fiftyeight's question.

 

[CanOz]

Well didnt enjoy that, dont think that is for me.

Whats the best way to chart with roll over and looking at larger time frames?

You should be using continuos contracts for longer term analysis. In Ninjatrader they're expressed as FDAX##-## for example....

 

[CanOz]

There are a few ways to trade with multiple contracts:

All in all out
Scale in scale out
All in scale out
Scale in all out

Each one has different advantages and disadvantages that can be suited better to different plays. From a purely psychological POV scaling in with a core position and then adding to it once the play goes your way is much easier. Statistically I have seen studies that show all in scale out to be the most profitable method.

If you are using CFDs be careful that you are not entering trades when the spread is artificially wider than it should be.

CanOz

 

[fiftyeight]

Cheers CanOz

Yeah thats why I wanted to play around cheaply, to find out what style would suit me best. I actually like the all in scale out method but I am not sure I could handle being stopped with a large position.

So many ppl seem to talk down CFDs but seem like its the only instrument that will suit

 

[CanOz]

Cheers CanOz

Yeah thats why I wanted to play around cheaply, to find out what style would suit me best. I actually like the all in scale out method but I am not sure I could handle being stopped with a large position.

So many ppl seem to talk down CFDs but seem like its the only instrument that will suit

Being very well capitalised comes in handy here too. For me a full stop out on 4 Dax contracts was pretty painful, even though I had a decent sized account. Once I was able to get better at working 1 contract then adding as it went on my favor, it gave me better results. I was able to be wrong many more times without putting my daily stop in play. So while all in scale out seemed the best method for me, it would not allow me the chance to apply my edge enough times to have it work for me, because I wouldn't be around to play anymore.

By using the depth of market, I could also trying and get into my trade when the market pulled back, allowing me to take less heat. Then at a key level again, I could add another contract, slowing building up a position. If you think of the market in fractals, the depth was just the smallest fractal that I could accurately play in to use the pullbacks in momentum moves to my best advantage....

I had suspected that the guys like TH were doing something similar for a while, but couldn't quite get the hang of it. I had to go back to sim for a few months before the light went on.

CanOz

 

[dead trader]

CanOz. Are there only continuous contracts in CFDs?

 

[fiftyeight]

Very well capitalised or very small lot sizes haha.

I know I should be using sim, but I just cant apply my self the same way. I feel the only way I personally learn is by actually having some skin in the game.

I suspect that ill come to the same conclusion and end up scaling in and out. I have no issues loosing money (I dont like it obviously) and tend to let profits come back on me way too far. So scaling in should help me limit risk but it wont let me take a little profit from my initial position.

All things I need to explore and ponder.

 

[CanOz]

CanOz. Are there only continuous contracts in CFDs?

CFDs are synthetic, so continuos by nature. Futures contracts for index futures usually expire once a month or once a qtr, so to look at something accurate for longer term price and volume you need continuous back adjusted futures contracts.

 

[CanOz]

Very well capitalised or very small lot sizes haha.

I know I should be using sim, but I just cant apply my self the same way. I feel the only way I personally learn is by actually having some skin in the game.

I suspect that ill come to the same conclusion and end up scaling in and out. I have no issues loosing money (I dont like it obviously) and tend to let profits come back on me way too far. So scaling in should help me limit risk but it wont let me take a little profit from my initial position.

All things I need to explore and ponder.

Sim is good to test ideas, but agree it has its limits.

Good luck mate!

 

[fiftyeight]

Yeah will play around with sim and test some ideas then ill have a crack.

What about minis, if I can find one that works well with my time zone? Am I reading correct that the HSI mini is HK$10 a point, or about AUD$1.50?

And the margin requirements would they be listed in HK$ as well? So Initial Intraday Margin = HK$8,775

 

[fiftyeight]

So far looks like the HSI mini will be the way to go during my week off. Good hours and I wont go broke too quickly. Comish is a bit higher but obviously much more range.

 

[CanOz]

So far looks like the HSI mini will be the way to go during my week off. Good hours and I wont go broke too quickly. Comish is a bit higher but obviously much more range.

Thats actually not a bad idea....just ignore the commissions and only review the net points...

If you can, keep the HHI open at the same time frame as well, just for a reference...

Looking forward to seeing your stats, lots of key levels to wtach, the prior O,H,L,C...also the opening swing high and low....build your self a little playbook. Just make sure to BEWARE THE NEWS!

CanOz

 

[fiftyeight]

Awesome, was hoping I had not missed something obvious.

I am on 3:1 swings at the moment so I wont be able to put in much/any screen time. I will use this time to get everything set-up.

Maybe finally fund my AMP account so I can have a play around with NT and use it to record some HSI stuff. Also found some good stuff on another forum which had some links to some free NT some that might be useful

Maybe ill start the "From Something To Nothing Thread"

 

[dead trader]

You should be using continuos contracts for longer term analysis. In Ninjatrader they're expressed as FDAX##-## for example....

Hey CanOz, do I need to replace the ##-## with anything (like numbers) in Ninja?

 

[CanOz]

Hey CanOz, do I need to replace the ##-## with anything (like numbers) in Ninja?

No, the # symbols should be one of the options under that contract in "instrument manager"

Make sure you have your data settings set to "merge back adjusted" under "options"

CanOz

 

[CanOz]

Awesome, was hoping I had not missed something obvious.

I am on 3:1 swings at the moment so I wont be able to put in much/any screen time. I will use this time to get everything set-up.

Maybe finally fund my AMP account so I can have a play around with NT and use it to record some HSI stuff. Also found some good stuff on another forum which had some links to some free NT some that might be useful

Maybe ill start the "From Something To Nothing Thread"

Remember though, AMP do not offer the HSI. Double check it but last time I checked they didn't.

 

[dead trader]

CFDs are synthetic, so continuos by nature. Futures contracts for index futures usually expire once a month or once a qtr, so to look at something accurate for longer term price and volume you need continuous back adjusted futures contracts.

Since futures inherently have an expiration date, does that mean I cannot trade futures? I am only looking to trade continuous contracts...I am assuming I can only trade CFD's...am I wrong?

 

[tech/a]

Since futures inherently have an expiration date, does that mean I cannot trade futures? I am only looking to trade continuous contracts...I am assuming I can only trade CFD's...am I wrong?

You can trade Futures.
Simply roll over into the next contract before expiry.

 

[dead trader]

You can trade Futures.
Simply roll over into the next contract before expiry.

Thanks tech/a.

I learn something new every day and today is no exception.

Trading is a supermarket of unlimited cans of worms, just the way I like it!

 

[CanOz]

Thanks tech/a.

I learn something new every day and today is no exception.

Trading is a supermarket of unlimited cans of worms, just the way I like it!

Yeah its kind of funny actually, it almost seems like they make the markets deliberatly complicated...

Futures were always based on agricultural s so they had seasonal reasons for the expiry's. In theory the indices could likely go to a longer contract....yearly maybe?

CanOz