The symbol of the Halal Certification Authority Australia

[Value Collector]

Why is a minority religious group allowed to impose their Islamic Law via a stamp of approval on the food broader Australia eats?

They don't impose it, Manufacturers that meet the standard can request to have their product labelled as halal, The reason they do this is to market their products to those 400,000 people and the millions more in export markets.

 

[Weatsop]

Honestly, how does a certification that says there's no pork, no gelatine, and no animals that were beaten to death, make any difference to you whatsoever? What possible reason would anyone have to be offended over that?

"Tolerance" doesn't mean liking everything. You don't need to tolerate things you like. Tolerance means recognising that plenty of people will do things you don't like, but you need to get over yourself, and if it doesn't hurt anyone, then just get on with your life and not make theirs harder.

 

[SirRumpole]

Honestly, how does a certification that says there's no pork, no gelatine, and no animals that were beaten to death, make any difference to you whatsoever? What possible reason would anyone have to be offended over that?

The fact that the producers have to pay someone for a certification that says this product is suitable for a certain group of people.

If producers could simply say " no pork, no gelatine, and no animals that were beaten to death" on their product and it would be acceptable to Muslims, I don't think there would be any problem at at. If it needs some "authorising body" to be paid for a particular certification, then there is a stench of commercial blackmail.

 

[herzy]

They don't have to pay. They choose to pay, because it makes commercial sense to expand their market by 400 000+...

And it shouldn't affect you, but for some reason it seems to.

I don't see how this is any different to butchers selling kosher meat. In fact, did you know that McDonalds is both kosher and halal?

It's economics, not ideology. You're the ones taking issue with a non-issue, not Muslims imposing anything.

 

[Weatsop]

The fact that the producers have to pay someone for a certification that says this product is suitable for a certain group of people.

If producers could simply say " no pork, no gelatine, and no animals that were beaten to death" on their product and it would be acceptable to Muslims, I don't think there would be any problem at at. If it needs some "authorising body" to be paid for a particular certification, then there is a stench of commercial blackmail.

Like they pay for free-range egg certification? Or vegan certification? Or healthy-heart certification? Or fair trade coffee certification? Or dolphin free certification? Or the Australian made label? Or the Olympic-Games supporter logo?

Where was your outrage, all these years?

Christ, we're so scared of "mussies" we're actually getting our undies in a twist over some of the words on our food, in teeny tiny logos some of us hadn't even noticed.

When did Australia get so gutless?

 

[SirRumpole]

Like they pay for free-range egg certification? Or vegan certification? Or healthy-heart certification? Or fair trade coffee certification? Or dolphin free certification? Or the Australian made label? Or the Olympic-Games supporter logo?

Where was your outrage, all these years?

Christ, we're so scared of "mussies" we're actually getting our undies in a twist over some of the words on our food, in teeny tiny logos some of us hadn't even noticed.

When did Australia get so gutless?

All those certifications are in fact a form of commercial blackmail, leaving the door open to any fringe group to stick their hands out for some producer cash. As I said, just write it on the label and don't pay anyone. What the producer pays for certification obviously gets added to the price, so the consumer pays for something that gives them little benefit.

 

[Weatsop]

All those certifications are in fact a form of commercial blackmail, leaving the door open to any fringe group to stick their hands out for some producer cash. As I said, just write it on the label and don't pay anyone. What the producer pays for certification obviously gets added to the price, so the consumer pays for something that gives them little benefit.

What stops me writing "fair-trade coffee" on my coffee, and lying about it? Doesn't that need to be checked?

And if I want to put that on my product, doesn't it make sense that I pay a small fee to cover the cost of checking?

Given the cost of certification for most of these things is a few thousand dollars, isn't the additional cost... basically zero, per unit? Especially as my coffee will now sell more units?

The SA dairy farmers spent a few thousand on certification, and got a $50,000 deal with Emirates. Now they've lost both, because people decided... what? That businesses shouldn't spend money to make money? What exactly did they do wrong?

 

[SirRumpole]

What stops me writing "fair-trade coffee" on my coffee, and lying about it? Doesn't that need to be checked?

Yes, we have government departments that do that and courts where lying companies can be taken.

How do we know that the certifying bodies do any checking at all ? As long as they get their fees. I'm sure they don't want to lose valued clients because of a silly thing thing like non-compliance.

 

[Weatsop]

Yes, we have government departments that do that and courts where lying companies can be taken.

How do we know that the certifying bodies do any checking at all ? As long as they get their fees. I'm sure they don't want to lose valued clients because of a silly thing thing like non-compliance.

But you don't think this particular kerfuffle, over this particular certification, has anything to do with anti-muslim bigotry? You think this is just general discontent with certification that just happened to boil over on this particular occasion?

 

[SirRumpole]

But you don't think this particular kerfuffle, over this particular certification, has anything to do with anti-muslim bigotry?

Very likely yes. But maybe it's bought out a wider issue that needs airing.

 

[Weatsop]

...fair enough. Not 100% sure it's on topic, but fair enough...

See, I'd asked why people were so offended, and you came up with not-liking-certification. Unless you're saying that's why people are offended, then what...? uh...

Yeah. Never mind.

 

[luutzu]

All those certifications are in fact a form of commercial blackmail, leaving the door open to any fringe group to stick their hands out for some producer cash. As I said, just write it on the label and don't pay anyone. What the producer pays for certification obviously gets added to the price, so the consumer pays for something that gives them little benefit.

Not really. If producers could sell more, chances are they would lower prices. So without a Halal certification, Muslims wouldn't buy it, leads to less sales, could lead to higher prices to make up the margin.

But if it wouldn't, if the price is too high still, then you don't have to buy it. The producers would consider what is beneficial, losing you or losing the Muslims and others who don't care about it. Capitalism, its only colour is green, as the Americans would say.

Yea, trust the producers to certify their own products. Don't there will be enough gold stars to go around.


Thinking about it, I think I'll start to look for Halal and Kosher food. Beats eating meat product filled with pink slime - you know, the bits of meat left on bones and cartilages that's then boiled, chemically treated, spun and then ooze out at the end to be filler in most meat products.

 

[Weatsop]

Man, look at what goes into a sausage...

Different cultures are ok with different disgusting stuff.

We eat lips-and-arseholes (aforementioned sausages); rotting glandular secretions (yoghurt); and insect vomit (honey). Gelatine, which is in heaps of stuff, is the goo you get from bones and skin. Wait, I've got a comic!



I'm not sure it's completely wrong that people want to have their product checked to make sure THAT'S not in it, if it's something they're not in to.

 

[Value Collector]

What the producer pays for certification obviously gets added to the price, so the consumer pays for something that gives them little benefit.

No, it's just a form of marketing, for example when coca cola sponsors a football match, they expect increased sales, which pays for the marketing.

Yes, we have government departments that do that and courts where lying companies can be taken.

.

So you would rather government bodies be established to do the checking? then we just pay for it though taxation

How do we know that the certifying bodies do any checking at all ? As long as they get their fees

.

That's up to the people that take the certification seriously to worry about, if the company does a poor job of checking the market will lose faith in its certification, and producers will stop requesting certification.

 

[SirRumpole]

Man, look at what goes into a sausage...

Different cultures are ok with different disgusting stuff.

We eat lips-and-arseholes (aforementioned sausages); rotting glandular secretions (yoghurt); and insect vomit (honey). Gelatine, which is in heaps of stuff, is the goo you get from bones and skin. Wait, I've got a comic!

View attachment 60252

I'm not sure it's completely wrong that people want to have their product checked to make sure THAT'S not in it, if it's something they're not in to.

Well yes, you bring up a good point.

Should we have a "no rotting glandular secretions" certification authority, and a "No lips and arseholes" Certification Authority, or should we just have a government body paid for by the taxpayer that covers all matters of food purity ?

As I say, there is a plethora of little Certification Hitlers that would be putting their hands out for cash for a little label.

 

[luutzu]

Man, look at what goes into a sausage...

Different cultures are ok with different disgusting stuff.

We eat lips-and-arseholes (aforementioned sausages); rotting glandular secretions (yoghurt); and insect vomit (honey). Gelatine, which is in heaps of stuff, is the goo you get from bones and skin. Wait, I've got a comic!

View attachment 60252

I'm not sure it's completely wrong that people want to have their product checked to make sure THAT'S not in it, if it's something they're not in to.

dam, I really do not want to see how sausages, or yogurt, are made.

My dad has a neighbour who did some work at a sauce factory, over lunch I offered him some BBQ sauce and he said no thanks mate, I saw how it's made and since then, no sauce for me.

I didn't ask him how it's made because i enjoy sauces with my meat.

 

[Value Collector]

Thinking about it, I think I'll start to look for Halal and Kosher food. Beats eating meat product filled with pink slime - you know, the bits of meat left on bones and cartilages that's then boiled, chemically treated, spun and then ooze out at the end to be filler in most meat products.

When I was over seas with the army, the base we would sometimes stay at had a halal and a regular mess, I always ate there at the halal mess, because the lines were shorter and they served fish more often ;-)

 

[Weatsop]

Yeah, it's best not to think about it.

My policy is: I don't eat anything that has a face. Recognisable body parts are definitely a point against, but faces are right out.

Seriously do not understand high-end seafood. Why the hell is the fish's head still on, and why is the crab meat still inside the bloody crab?! Am I not paying you enough to fully prepare the food, so you need to make me do half the job?

I do not want my food looking at me. Prawns... they look so accusing.

 

[SirRumpole]

So you would rather government bodies be established to do the checking? then we just pay for it though taxation

Yes I would. Where there is a financial relationship between the certifying authority and the applicant there is a much higher likelihood of bribery than there is via a government department.

Would you prefer a privatised police force ? Not that bribery doesn't occur in the police but if it was privatised there would be a lot less scrutiny.

That's up to the people that take the certification seriously to worry about, if the company does a poor job of checking the market will lose faith in its certification, and producers will stop requesting certification.

How would the consumer know if the Authority does no checking ?

 

[luutzu]

When I was over seas with the army, the base we would sometimes stay at had a halal and a regular mess, I always ate there at the halal mess, because the lines were shorter and they served fish more often ;-)

It's more beneficial to not be prejudice isn't it? haha

Yea when i goes overseas I look for fish, or egg, and stay far away from meat. I heard from a family friend whose relative is a rubbish collector in Vietnam, the restaurants asks him put aside dead animals like cats and dogs they found from households and sell it to them at end of the day. So the chicken or beef you ordered might not be it.

When got sick of fish, just have to close your eyes and hope this is not that restaurant.