The state of the economy at the street level

[sptrawler]

I don't know if Labor would have done anything sooner but to me it's worth finding out if they are better than the current mob.

Change for change sake, its happened before, but I doubt it will happen in the current climate.

 

[sptrawler]

If someone wants retro well then dust off some old records, watch a few old movies or whatever but give it a miss when it comes to economic policies and so on, we really need to move into the 2020's.

My feeling is as you have mentioned, the virus has highlighted the precarious position globalisation has put western countries in with regard supply of essential goods, I'm very sure wheels will be turning to rectify the situation.

 

[qldfrog]

My feeling is as you have mentioned, the virus has highlighted the precarious position globalisation has put western countries in with regard supply of essential goods, I'm very sure wheels will be turning to rectify the situation.

And i am sure they will not.
We in Australia and NZ have a chance to actually change as, we have not actually have any real encounter yet with the virus.in Europe and the US, they actually got it and the scare tactic and continuous propaganda has split countries in a USSR like mode: a majority of scared ,brain washed citizens ready to rat, hate and a minority of fined ,black listed and bashed by truncheon resistance which is broadly in line with the people who were fighting globalism already 20y ago and are labelled as populists: trump,brexit,gilet jaunes,etc etc
While many will read this as political, the Reset is the economic program pushed by the powers in place and it is very clear:
a final end to real capitalism toward :universal income, unity of outcome on a GLOBAL scale so relentless globalisation, a green deal so throwing away your home ,car ,goods, food to push growth and create fake employment but all that will still be built in the cheaper countries especially via Chinese outsourced companies..aka the satellite countries.. Vietnam, Laos , Indian continent for cheap labor intensive tasks
And if not enough, some war noise against Russia so a push in defence spending and R and D, but not against China who is now the big kid in the block.
In all the above, remanufacturing is not involved and for us we will remain confined to producing ore and wheat..(not cattle) while being pushed into the chinese sphere of influence..after all, they are on Asia.
With the boost given byCovid 19..before covid 20,21,22 it will be very easy to see without waiting for 20y.i suspect will be fully in place within 5 years.and Australia will have no choice but walking the line.
Keep your eyes and ears open.

 

[sptrawler]

@qldfrog you may well be right and this may well be just a small speed bump.

 

[qldfrog]

@qldfrog you may well be right and this may well be just a small speed bump.

Time will tell

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting article that highlights what we have been saying for a long time, if people want to save they can, it just means they have to change their lifestyle.
Well covid did it for a lot of them.

'Some of the best times I've seen': The COVID-19 economy had big winners — but it might not last

Mickayla Downey and Matthew Hardiman saw an unexpected boost to their savings during the COVID pandemic, enabling them to buy their own home — and they are not alone.

www.abc.net.au

 

[qldfrog]

Interesting article that highlights what we have been saying for a long time, if people want to save they can, it just means they have to change their lifestyle.
Well covid did it for a lot of them.

'Some of the best times I've seen': The COVID-19 economy had big winners — but it might not last

Mickayla Downey and Matthew Hardiman saw an unexpected boost to their savings during the COVID pandemic, enabling them to buy their own home — and they are not alone.

www.abc.net.au

A whole side of society unaffected financially,sometimes even better off after welfare, and unable to spend so saving and another part ruined by the covid "fight" measures ..and forced to sell.

For every retail or hospitality business owner going down the drain, there is a family home for sale...
where do you think this will ends when, in an extreme point of view, saving and financial litteracy/entrepreneurship is punished while free spending and financial incompetence/sheeple behaviour is rewarded: how will this end once lockdowns and pubs reopen while welfare is at least reduced and work required?

 

[SirRumpole]

The economy according to Ross Garnaut.

He is in favour of a UBI.

Australia plagued by 'voluntary unemployment', leading economist warns

Eminent economist Professor Ross Garnaut criticises Australia's policymakers for allowing hundreds of thousands of people to remain unemployed in recent years.

www.abc.net.au

 

[qldfrog]

The economy according to Ross Garnaut.

He is in favour of a UBI.

Australia plagued by 'voluntary unemployment', leading economist warns

Eminent economist Professor Ross Garnaut criticises Australia's policymakers for allowing hundreds of thousands of people to remain unemployed in recent years.

www.abc.net.au

with genius like that..
Professor Garnaut has also thrown his support behind the idea of a guaranteed basic income for practically all adults, paid at the same level as the dole (known as universal basic income in the economic literature), and a major reconfiguration of the way businesses pay company tax.
then he wants the gov to push for full employment;
so I get money whether I work or not, but I will happily go and get a job..
men are from Mars maybe but economist are from Saturn...

 

[SirRumpole]

so I get money whether I work or not, but I will happily go and get a job..

But you won't get enough money to buy a McMansion or a yacht, so if you want those you still have to work, or run a business.

 

[qldfrog]

But you won't get enough money to buy a McMansion or a yacht, so if you want those you still have to work, or run a business.

no, you just vote labour and steal it from your neighbour directly or via taxes, as obviously the UBI will need more taxes on the working few or business.
The study of former USSR and then France in the last 40y should be mandatory for our leaders, and probably to be allowed to vote.

The dreamt Reset scenario of sheeples fed games and bread (coke and vegan hamburgers) with a few mega corporate sharing their gain with a corrupt ruling class.

 

[Smurf1976]

Ultimately if the concern's about unemployment, wage growth and so on well then there's either the approach of treating the symptoms or there's the approach of treating the disease.

Ask any doctor or even a carpenter and they'll tell you that in the context of their respective fields, always treat the disease if possible and that'll get rid of the symptoms anyway.

The disease being best explained by saying that car manufacturing's dead, oil refining's walking out the door right now, glass manufacturing's next. And so on.

You can't have a First World economy based on a Third World foundation of resource extraction and low value services. Simple as that really.

At the street level right now, well what I see is a lot of money being spent but mostly based on hope more than reality. From individuals to government, the money's flowing but mostly without any real plan so far as I can determine. Even business seems willing to invest in things that aren't very profitable.

 

[qldfrog]

You can't have a First World economy based on a Third World foundation of resource extraction and low value services. Simple as that really.

been shouting that for 20y to people paid 120k a year to drive trucks, tradies thinking that a carpenter, plumber, etc can ask $120 an hour and this is normal and that a baristas and Mc Mansion society with PHDs in gender studies can be funded on mining royalties

 

[sptrawler]

One thing for sure when the mining stops, the welfare stops, that's a given. ?

 

[moXJO]

Was out in town for dinner and the streets/restaurants/bars are packed.

 

[jbocker]

Going out in a couple of minutes going to find an eating house on the Highway to Hell. I expect everything to be busy. Been that way for some time in Perth. But hadnt eaten here for some 12+ months.

 

[moXJO]

I've noticed that eateries that were round the clock packed during covid have gone back to normal and empty after the busy periods.

 

[SirRumpole]

SirRumpole said:


Does this include government benefits, family tax allowances etc or just employer pay ?

It would also be interesting to see a breakdown between public and private sectors.

I'm sure you can find it, there is heaps of info, when competency standards were introduced in the late 1990's, there was a wage explosion.

Something to get your teeth into (if you like that sort of thing).

https://esacentral.org.au/images/ZhuRMahuteauSMavromarasKRichardsonS.pdf

 

[sptrawler]

I'm sure you can find it, there is heaps of info, when competency standards were introduced in the late 1990's, there was a wage explosion.

Something to get your teeth into (if you like that sort of thing).

That is very true over my working career I worked for private and public, in the 1970/80's public sector wages were less that private sector, the justification by management was that public sector employment was much more secure, therefore wages reflected that.
As privatisation took hold that argument no longer held water and at EBA discussions, of which i attended quite a few, management was told to get stuffed and wage rises were more forthcoming.
By the mid to late 1990's public sector wages were well and truly on par with the private sector and these days they have probably exceeded them in a lot of fields. I'm mainly referring to heavy industry and the power industry.
Wages and conditions in all fields have changed a lot, wages have gone up, but so have hours worked with the advent of 12 hour shifts. Also shift swings have changed, with the advent of more air travel, a lot of the work years ago entailed living in the remote Towns, now with fifo 8 days on 6 days off.
In the 1980's when we worked remotely, it was mainly drive in drive out and 5 weeks on 1 week off, so over the course of time lots change.

 

[over9k]

That is very true over my working career I worked for private and public, in the 1970/80's public sector wages were less that private sector, the justification by management was that public sector employment was much more secure, therefore wages reflected that.
As privatisation took hold that argument no longer held water and at EBA discussions, of which i attended quite a few, management was told to get stuffed and wage rises were more forthcoming.
By the mid to late 1990's public sector wages were well and truly on par with the private sector and these days they have probably exceeded them in a lot of fields. I'm mainly referring to heavy industry and the power industry.
Wages and conditions in all fields have changed a lot, wages have gone up, but so have hours worked with the advent of 12 hour shifts. Also shift swings have changed, with the advent of more air travel, a lot of the work years ago entailed living in the remote Towns, now with fifo 8 days on 6 days off.
In the 1980's when we worked remotely, it was mainly drive in drive out and 5 weeks on 1 week off, so over the course of time lots change.

Public sector wages, benefits et al are well above private now trawler. Public sector gigs are now plum jobs given to people with power and/or connections, usually a parent that's already a high ranking public servant.

The only other way to get your foot in the door is if you meet some kind of diversity criteria. Competence has virtually nothing to do with it, not any more.