The state of the economy at the street level

[sptrawler]

@over9k Just read up on the 1970's Lima Declaration and the dismantling of tariffs following the signing, then you may have an understanding of the current situation.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, it just shows how quickly things can turn to $hit, from good intentions.
It also shows how quickly blame can be shifted, from one side to another.

 

[Macquack]

At the end of the day inflation is good, but without an increase in productivity, it just devalues your buying power in reality it is just a sugar hit.
Just my opinion.

Inflation is only good if it is on your "income" side and not on your "expenditure" side.

The only people getting a sugar hit from inflation is real estate holders in the big cities.

I don't believe the "narrow" inflation definition used by the Federal Government. A recent trip to the supermarket proved it to me.

 

[sptrawler]

Inflation is only good if it is on your "income" side and not on your "expenditure" side.

The only people getting a sugar hit from inflation is real estate holders in the big cities.

I don't believe the "narrow" inflation definition used by the Federal Government. A recent trip to the supermarket proved it to me.

That is why I said it is has to be due to increased productivity, otherwise it just gets transferred to another part of the economy and there is no net gain.
Otherwise it is like trying to divide up a cake and give one party more than the others, someone has to get less, that is unless you make a bigger cake. Which is the improved productivity.

 

[SirRumpole]

@over9k Just read up on the 1970's Lima Declaration and the dismantling of tariffs following the signing, then you may have an understanding of the current situation.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, it just shows how quickly things can turn to $hit, from good intentions.
It also shows how quickly blame can be shifted, from one side to another.

1970 was Fifty years ago. What has anyone been doing recently ?

Easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight but ceding manufacturing to low wage countries was only going to guarantee that they remained low wage.

There should have been some stipulation that wages would be progressively raised to the level of the developed world so that everyone was on the same playing field.

A lot of countries got sucked into an agenda that was flawed in the real world.

 

[sptrawler]

1970 was Fifty years ago. What has anyone been doing recently ?

Easy to look back with 20/20 hindsight but ceding manufacturing to low wage countries was only going to guarantee that they remained low wage.

There should have been some stipulation that wages would be progressively raised to the level of the developed world so that everyone was on the same playing field.

A lot of countries got sucked into an agenda that was flawed in the real world.

Well the only ones who have any hope of invigorating industry is the Libs, how would you suggest Labor would do it?
Don't want it to degenerate into a political debate, but there is no way labor are going to do anything for business, I was just asking you who was going to turn it around when you said the Libs wont do anything?
I thought it was a fair question.

By the way the dismantling of the tariffs mainly happened in the late 1980's early 1990's, which is only 30 odd years ago, the demise has happened very quickly in the scheme of things.

Trade Liberalisation and the Australian Labor Party

The three most substantial decisions to reduce Australia’s trade barriers — in 1973, 1988 and 1991 — were made by Labor Governments. Labor’s policy shift preceded the conversion of social democratic ...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

The three most substantial decisions to reduce Australia’s trade barriers — in 1973, 1988 and 1991 — were made by Labor Governments. Labor’s policy shift preceded the conversion of social democratic parties in other countries to trade liberalisation. To understand why this was so, it is necessary to consider trade policy as being shaped by more than interest groups and political institutions. Drawing on interviews with the main political figures, including Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and John Button, this article explores why the intellectual arguments for free trade had such a powerful impact on Labor’s leadership, and how those leaders managed to implement major tariff cuts, while largely maintaining party unity.

 

[over9k]

I can't see the libs losing the next election. Too many boomers still alive and the whole "superior economic managers" branding of money/retirement/pensions to them.

I can just see the slogan now: "Can you think of anything crazier than putting labour in charge during a recession?"

So with that in mind, we get whatever the libs give us, which is going to be a giant **** sandwich.

 

[sptrawler]

I can't see the libs losing the next election. Too many boomers still alive and the whole "superior economic managers" branding of money/retirement/pensions to them.

I can just see the slogan now: "Can you think of anything crazier than putting labour in charge during a recession?"

So with that in mind, we get whatever the libs give us, which is going to be a giant **** sandwich.

I actually hope they lose, then we might at least get the retirement age lifted to 70, instead of 67. ? At least that is obviously a sandwich that you are prepared to eat, as it was served up o.k last time labor were in.
Ask the 65 year old brickies and labourers who are still working what they think. ?
Even if you are really struggling physically, they sorted out the disability pension so it is harder to get, yes bring it on.
Nothing like a good dose of reality.
There is an old saying be carefull what you wish for.lol

The Disability Support Pension's False Crisis – Opinion – ABC Ramp Up (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

There are perfectly good reasons why the number of people on Disability Support Pensions is increasing and none of them have anything to do with people cheating the system, writes Peter Horbury from Social Security Rights Victoria.

www.abc.net.au

 

[moXJO]

Every asian country has a completely inverted population pyramid and are totally reliant on massive choke points for their oil. They aren't going to dominate ****.

India and China will be where the money is at. Growth and opportunities is Asia centric.

 

[sptrawler]

India and China will be where the money is at. Growth and opportunities is Asia centric.

I definitely think a lot of money is being poured into India, Thailand and Vietnam.

 

[over9k]

India yes, the others no. Again, it's all about demographics.

 

[moXJO]

Labor, or libs.... what's the difference?
Some slight tinkering round the edges of either political spectrum.

In saying that I want libs tossed out. But I'd like half of the Labor front bench to disappear as well.

 

[moXJO]

India yes, the others no. Again, it's all about demographics.

Numbers and numbers filtering into middle class is a big one as well. Lets not forget China can basically force the population to make more kids.

I definitely think a lot of money is being poured into India, Thailand and Vietnam.

Vietnam is on fire right now. Its amazing how much its changed. Thailand makes some decent products as well. Very consumer minded too.

 

[sptrawler]

Labor, or libs.... what's the difference?
Some slight tinkering round the edges of either political spectrum.

In saying that I want libs tossed out. But I'd like half of the Labor front bench to disappear as well.

I'd agree 100% with that.

 

[sptrawler]

. Thailand makes some decent products as well. Very consumer minded too.

Thailand has overtaken us on the industrialization index Vietnam is just behind us, here is some interesting reading, for those who care.

UNIDO Statistics Data Portal

UNIDO statistics,INDSTAT2,INDSTAT4,MINDSTAT,IDSB,MVA,CIP.Contains Indicators GDP,Population,Employees,Output,Wages,Exports,Imports,Value added,Production,ISIC

stat.unido.org

 

[SirRumpole]

Well the only ones who have any hope of invigorating industry is the Libs, how would you suggest Labor would do it?

How have they done that in their current term ?

They just do what their big business backers tell them to do.

If it was up to me I'd put export taxes on all our natural resources and use the money to start high tech industries like EV's and vaccine manufacturing which we are sadly deficient in.

Whether Labor has the guts to do this after the resource super profits tax failure is another matter.

 

[qldfrog]

Thailand has overtaken us on the industrialization index Vietnam is just behind us, here is some interesting reading, for those who care.

UNIDO Statistics Data Portal

UNIDO statistics,INDSTAT2,INDSTAT4,MINDSTAT,IDSB,MVA,CIP.Contains Indicators GDP,Population,Employees,Output,Wages,Exports,Imports,Value added,Production,ISIC

stat.unido.org

They are satellites of the china new superpower status and benefit from rhe eipples,in the same way we do witb mines.we sell our soil with minimal people employed on very basic tasks,they build factories and gather knowhow for millions

 

[sptrawler]

How have they done that in their current term ?

They just do what their big business backers tell them to do.

If it was up to me I'd put export taxes on all our natural resources and use the money to start high tech industries like EV's and vaccine manufacturing which we are sadly deficient in.

Whether Labor has the guts to do this after the resource super profits tax failure is another matter.

What you mean like this Rumpy?

Taxpayers, CSL to build vaccine manufacturing plant

The Morrison government will spend $1 billion over a decade to underwrite the construction of a new vaccine production facility to guarantee the nation continues to have its own supply of flu shots, antivenins and, if another pandemic occurs, the sovereign capability to look after its own...

www.afr.com

I suppose hatred runs deep and rust is hard to remove?

 

[sptrawler]

They are satellites of the china new superpower status and benefit from rhe eipples,in the same way we do witb mines.we sell our soil with minimal people employed on very basic tasks,they build factories and gather knowhow for millions

It is interesting to look at Australia's economic makeup and then compare it with countries like India and Indonesia, who are behind us on the index.
It is a very enlightening PDF and well worth studying IMO.

 

[SirRumpole]

What you mean like this Rumpy?

Taxpayers, CSL to build vaccine manufacturing plant

The Morrison government will spend $1 billion over a decade to underwrite the construction of a new vaccine production facility to guarantee the nation continues to have its own supply of flu shots, antivenins and, if another pandemic occurs, the sovereign capability to look after its own...

www.afr.com

I suppose hatred runs deep and rust is hard to remove?

They got caught with their pants down and now they are trying to pretend that they are being clever by plugging a hole.

I don't know if Labor would have done anything sooner but to me it's worth finding out if they are better than the current mob.

 

[Smurf1976]

970 was Fifty years ago. What has anyone been doing recently ?

It was but a huge problem with Australian politics is that it is largely still stuck in the early 1980's and has barely moved since that time.

Hawke's dead and Keating's relevance ended 25 years ago but in practice we're still living in that era.

That's visible in everything. For example we've still got essentially the same energy policy which Labor adopted at a meeting in Warrnambool back in Hawke's days as PM and which was itself merely a modification to the policies adopted by the previous Fraser (Liberal) government in the 1970's.

Same with lots of things, our national thinking is still firmly stuck in the era when Rubik's Cubes were new, every mainstream car was wedge shaped and the more ridiculous something or someone looked, the more fashionable it or they were deemed to be - bonus points if it involved fluoro colours.

40 years isn't yesterday, it's more than a generation, it's roughly half a human lifetime and about the average time someone spends in the workforce. Pretty much nobody's driving the same car or working the same job they were back then and for that matter literally half the current population wasn't even born.

If someone wants retro well then dust off some old records, watch a few old movies or whatever but give it a miss when it comes to economic policies and so on, we really need to move into the 2020's.