The state of the economy at the street level

[sptrawler]

Everyone is under the pump, times money these days.

Electrician working for Mandurah company fined after unsupervised apprentice suffers electric shock

An electrician has been fined $3000 after an apprentice he was meant to be supervising received an electric shock.

www.917thewave.com.au

 

[farmerge]

Everyone is under the pump, times money these days.

Electrician working for Mandurah company fined after unsupervised apprentice suffers electric shock

An electrician has been fined $3000 after an apprentice he was meant to be supervising received an electric shock.

www.917thewave.com.au

And if the apprentice had died from his carelessness, not good enough.
As a rule no second chances with 240 volts.

 

[farmerge]

$3000 seems a bit light on when a life could have been taken

 

[moXJO]

A friend of mine worked for Telstra, about 15 years ago he got a payout to leave, and with the money purchased a Cartridge World with his brother. The location is excellent, and business was good.

Not so good lately. They are covering costs but not pulling much of a wage. Prices of everything keep going up, including electricity and government red tape. They can't pass on all the costs, because of online competition from OS. And if they wanted to sell, they'd get virtually nothing because banks aren't lending a lot for business.

He has taken a part time job at the airport, working 16 hours per week to supplement his income. The pay is good, and if he wanted he could work another 16 hours in overtime.

I wonder how many more small business owners are doing this.

The economy is being hammered by poor productivity across every industry and every state.

Our taxes are too high, because it is wasted on thought bubbles. Business is forced to comply with ever greater government regulations, and now the unions are getting involved. Family businesses face ‘union delegate’ threat under new IR legislation

How much more can the economy take?

I was going to write something similar. Small business is getting hammered by compliance costs and bills. I've heard a lot of complaints recently.

One discount store near me that had been there for 40 years just went bust. Mustn't have been paying rent as it was locked up by the landlord.

Heard a few out of town restaurants not being able to keep up with costs which was surprising.

 

[IFocus]

Everyone is under the pump, times money these days.

Electrician working for Mandurah company fined after unsupervised apprentice suffers electric shock

An electrician has been fined $3000 after an apprentice he was meant to be supervising received an electric shock.

www.917thewave.com.au

Complete hanging offence these days, even 15 years ago, as a 3rd year apprentice stopped counting at 14 shocks bragging rights only if you got hung up on 3 phase (luckily I never did) but then men died on the job SECWA budgeted for 3 dead linesmen a year.

Regularly would meet linesmen with HV burns somewhere on their body.

1980 / 81 SECWA sacked the safety department and started to get serious about people not dying at work... true story.

 

[farmerge]

Complete hanging offence these days, even 15 years ago, as a 3rd year apprentice stopped counting at 14 shocks bragging rights only if you got hung up on 3 phase (luckily I never did) but then men died on the job SECWA budgeted for 3 dead linesmen a year.

Regularly would meet linesmen with HV burns somewhere on their body.

1980 / 81 SECWA sacked the safety department and started to get serious about people not dying at work... true story.

@IFocus so a life is worth ?????????????????????????

 

[qldfrog]

@IFocus so a life is worth ?????????????????????????

250v is a shock, but you need quite nasty circumstances to die of it.

I probably got 20 to 40 "shocks" in my life so far in France and here.
I always assume everything is hot and use a phase tester.
But i have had times where i have worked on life wire purposedly..not to reset clock, etc
I believe the Australian culture , lack of knowledge and regulations has made people afraid of power, and unaware of actual real dangers....
Anyway..

 

[farmerge]

250v is a shock, but you need quite nasty circumstances to die of it.

I probably got 20 to 40 "shocks" in my life so far in France and here.
I always assume everything is hot and use a phase tester.
But i have had times where i have worked on life wire purposedly..not to reset clock, etc
I believe the Australian culture , lack of knowledge and regulations has made people afraid of power, and unaware of actual real dangers....
Anyway..

For me Mr frog not being a sparky and quite literally not wishing to test the wires to see if they are live, I always have the power turned off if any work in an electrical nature is being undertaken here on the farm.
We had a sparky some years ago fiddling around in the kitchen fixing one of th recessed lights.
His way to test if it was live or not was to stick a screwdriver into the socket.
That's when the power got turned off.
Safe and not sorry.

 

[divs4ever]

I always have the power turned off if any work in an electrical nature is being undertaken here on the farm.

all very good BUT get a tester as well , even if only a screwdriver with a bulb/fuse inside ,

you just never know but sure turn switches off , unplug and take out the relevant fuses ( and other ones not absolutely essential at the time ) your 'live-wire ' might be shorting on a metal rod/roof-beam metres away

 

[TimeISmoney]

250v is a shock, but you need quite nasty circumstances to die of it.

I probably got 20 to 40 "shocks" in my life so far in France and here.
I always assume everything is hot and use a phase tester.
But i have had times where i have worked on life wire purposedly..not to reset clock, etc
I believe the Australian culture , lack of knowledge and regulations has made people afraid of power, and unaware of actual real dangers....
Anyway..

It's not the voltage but the amps that kill you especially if it goes from one hand to the other across your heart.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

tell me if this is true for not.... random test, use the back of the hand rather than normal frontal touch; muscles will tighten and hand moves away, whereas the other way, contact is extended through involuntary grip. ... = more amps. ??

 

[TimeISmoney]

tell me if this is true for not.... random test, use the back of the hand rather than normal frontal touch; muscles will tighten and hand moves away, whereas the other way, contact is extended through involuntary grip. ... = more amps. ??

Yep, that's true, your flexor muscles contract when you get a current going through them.

I started my life out as an electrician, you would most likely go to jail for doing it these days, but back then the Tech teachers ran electricity through your arm ( a few milli amps) to give you a taste of an electric shock.

 

[divs4ever]

tell me if this is true for not.... random test, use the back of the hand rather than normal frontal touch; muscles will tighten and hand moves away, whereas the other way, contact is extended through involuntary grip. ... = more amps. ??

i was taught back in the dim, dark ages , to test with back of the hand , and theory was the contraction of the muscles and flexes the arm away from danger ( a NASTY burn is possible , but less chance of a fatal event )

HOWEVER , experience has taught me not to be leaning/sitting on a conductive surface ( is another great idea ) , so assess your changes of being 'an earth ' before touching

( and i am really a BIG fan of those screwdrivers with the light/fuse in the handle )

 

[wayneL]

I had a fair few shocks from the electric fence. VERY high volts but very low amps, still gives you a hell of a kick.

Enough to know I never want to get belted with the mains

 

[TimeISmoney]

I had a fair few shocks from the electric fence. VERY high volts but very low amps, still gives you a hell of a kick.

Enough to know I never want to get belted with the mains

 

[IFocus]

tell me if this is true for not.... random test, use the back of the hand rather than normal frontal touch; muscles will tighten and hand moves away, whereas the other way, contact is extended through involuntary grip. ... = more amps. ??

Yes true arounds 16 milliamps is the threshold when you cannot let go and across the heart muscle, fibrillation... dead

 

[IFocus]

@IFocus so a life is worth ?????????????????????????

Not a lot then I guess, the good old days, so as an apprentice mid 70's worked on live installations as a matter of course no safety protection, worked with asbestos no breathing protection, worked at heights no safety restrains or barriers, no work permit systems, used to be a keg put on every friday at work got blind drunk and drove home (under age drinking completely encouaged) paid $28 a week.

Men died young.

 

[qldfrog]

For me Mr frog not being a sparky and quite literally not wishing to test the wires to see if they are live, I always have the power turned off if any work in an electrical nature is being undertaken here on the farm.
We had a sparky some years ago fiddling around in the kitchen fixing one of th recessed lights.
His way to test if it was live or not was to stick a screwdriver into the socket.
That's when the power got turned off.
Safe and not sorry.

The phase tester is a screw driver with a small light allowing you to detect hot or not wires.
It looks like putting a screw driver in a plug.
High voltage is a different story, as are capacitors etc
There are real dangers, or being on a ladder, etc.
If you do not know, stay away and safe...
But your chainsaw or car is a bigger risk...

 

[wayneL]

The phase tester is a screw driver with a small light allowing you to detect hot or not wires.
It looks like putting a screw driver in a plug.
High voltage is a different story, as are capacitors etc
There are real dangers, or being on a ladder, etc.
If you do not know, stay away and safe...
But your chainsaw or car is a bigger risk..

Tractor PTOs, angle grinders and suchlike.

And a hidden one... Striking tools, I have so many colleagues that have copped shrapnel from an exploding hammer head or top tool. It can pierce several cm.

 

[qldfrog]

tell me if this is true for not.... random test, use the back of the hand rather than normal frontal touch; muscles will tighten and hand moves away, whereas the other way, contact is extended through involuntary grip. ... = more amps. ??

You are onto something, you have to make sure you do not freeze into contact.
That is indeed true, same for ladder, wet feet etc.
Never expect power not to be on, so always check, ideally with phase tester.
When just zapped with 250v, not worse than my cattle electric fences
Basically, my issue is we are in a country where a company is found guilty and fined heavily if an employee who should know better, an electrician,even an apprentice , get zapped, but in the same years we have a government forcing a medical experiment killing conservatively 10k to 15,000 australian in a year (extra death 2022) and it is supposed to be ok and no one has been fined, let alone jailed
That's all.
Let's go back to the thread.