The Middle East and Western Asia: Bit of a hot spot?

bel532 · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

2020hindsight said:
don't recall saying it was from the USA govt - - you're right, not from them,
but from the USA nonetheless.
either way, it went on under the administration's noses.

I am aware that the world is a different place since 9/11. Everyone is.
But the risk of terrorism appears to be a new awareness for USA, whereas UK has known about it first-hand since the 60's.

and a lot of English blood spilt using (probably) american sourced explosives. - many more victime than the recent London bombings for instance

It's probably true (I have no evidence) that the authorities in the USA turned a blind eye to the support for the IRA amongst some elements residing in the USA. Although the USA was subject to terrorists attacks before 9/11, this event certainly changed its mindset. However,we need to recognise that the only distinction drawn by the Islamic terrorists is between Believers and NON Believers.

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

bel532 said:
However,we need to recognise that the only distinction drawn by the Islamic terrorists is between Believers and NON Believers.

Not sure where this one is going, but surely, at least in Iraq, the sunnis are mainly blowing up shiites?

ironchef · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

bel532 said:
However,we need to recognise that the only distinction drawn by the Islamic terrorists is between Believers and NON Believers.

Believers and NON Believers? Are the Swedish believers? What about the Canadians? The Scotish, Italians, Fijians, New Zealanders, Brazilians, Ukranians are all believers too? No? Then, why aren't they having kittens over Islamic terrorists?? Why are the Islamic terrorists not targetting them??

If the Islamic terrorists hate freedom and justice why is it only a few countries that are being targetted? Are USA, Britain and Israel the ONLY countries that employ freedom and justice in thier societies?

People like you are the root cause of this problem. Your whole agenda is to promote fear and separation. Shame.

billhill · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

ironchef said:
If the Islamic terrorists hate freedom and justice why is it only a few countries that are being targetted?

My understanding is that "the terrorist" have a problem with western culture as it is inconpatible with their islamic values. They see the US, brittan, etc and being the sources of this and hence is why they have become targetted. Now however i think that the issues have become polarised within both western society and islamic society leading to a generalise hatred of each other. Unfortunately i can only see this polarisation strengthening further when the media's only goal is to sensationalise issues to make money.

KIWIKARLOS · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Ironchef your remarks are without basis Terrorism is effecting most of the countries you just listed. EG

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=ccb6233a-0467-4318-b3c0-70a31aba7662&k=20237

Another suspect arrested in Toronto terror investigation
Katie Rook , with files from Chris Wattie, CanWest News Service; National Post
Published: Friday, August 04, 2006
TORONTO - The number of suspects charged in connection with Canada's largest terror investigation grew to 18 Thursday with the arrest of a Mississauga, Ont., man.

How about Spain and the Madrid bombings.

How about Pakistan and the bombings there, the list goes on India, Japan and Bali (where New Zealanders were killed too)

Sure they might not all be linked directly to Osama Bin laden but they are still terrorist activities, and related or not they all encourage others to do similar things. On top of that most the the countries I just listed do not have troops in the middle east.

How about France where riots amoungst youth, particularily muslim youth has exploded. They were against the Iraq invasion.

chops_a_must · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

KIWIKARLOS said:
How about France where riots amoungst youth, particularily muslim youth has exploded. They were against the Iraq invasion.

Nah, those were about crippling unemployment in disadvantaged areas.

And then there were riots in protest of the riots. As proposed reforms disadvantaged youth from wealthy areas..

Youth and student riots in France are a dime a dozen so you can't read much into that. It's almost like a right of passage for them over there...

KIWIKARLOS · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

There have also been attacks in Egypt, Iran, Turkey, Qatar, Somali etc.

How about Thailand? There have been countless bombings and they have nothing to do with the war on terror.

It seems as if these people are using violence as a means to get there political views and values incorporated into countries political systems. What ever happened to peacefull protests...

and in most cases these are minority communities who want a whole country to change for a small prportion of the population or to establish a seperate country for themselves.

chops_a_must · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

KIWIKARLOS said:
What ever happened to peacefull protests...

You aren't allowed to have them.

KIWIKARLOS · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Youth riots? the facts were the majority of people rioting were muslim youth.
I agree they are disadvantaged and lets face it if your not of French background and living in france your a second class citizen. But that would be the case also for alot of minority groups in muslim countries.

KIWIKARLOS · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

Well fortunately you are allowed to protest against the government in America, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, England etc.

The only places you can't would be ummm China, Iran, Zimbarbwi, Saudi Arabia, etc.

It just proves the fact that in these types of places peoples rights are nothing.

At least I can call George Bush a tosser, try goin to Iran and saying that about their president and see how long you last. How about holding a conference/internation discussion in Tehran about Mohammed being a fabrication, or does only work for topics such as the "fake" genocide in WW2?

billhill · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

chops_a_must said:
You aren't allowed to have them.

Sad but true unfortunately

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

chops_a_must said:
You aren't allowed to have them.

I would love to know the latest on the actual application of the new sedition laws. Perhaps I could add, I'm not even sure we are allowed to talk about them lol. I seem to recall that if you're imprisoned under them, you have damn-all rights, but I forget the details.

I've already posted this on David Hicks thread.

"Other (recent) changes cannot be justified because they disproportionately undermine democratic principles. The new sedition laws are an example. They imprison people for what they say rather than for what they do, arguably for little gain in preventing a terriorist attack......
The laws we have today were unthinkable prior to Sept 11. It is equally hard to imagine the laws that we will end up with in the event of future attacks"

Also

"By our own actions we may isolate and ostracise members of our community , who instead of assisting with intelligence gathering may be susceptible targets for terrorist recruitment. etc etc

bel532 · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

ironchef said:
Believers and NON Believers? Are the Swedish believers? What about the Canadians? The Scotish, Italians, Fijians, New Zealanders, Brazilians, Ukranians are all believers too? No? Then, why aren't they having kittens over Islamic terrorists?? Why are the Islamic terrorists not targetting them??

If the Islamic terrorists hate freedom and justice why is it only a few countries that are being targetted? Are USA, Britain and Israel the ONLY countries that employ freedom and justice in thier societies?

People like you are the root cause of this problem. Your whole agenda is to promote fear and separation. Shame.

Oh and don't forget:

The Spanish train massacre.

Bali where, in addition to the Aussies, quite a number of Nordic and Balinese (Hindu) people were killed and seriously injured.

Russia on many,many occassions.

India on many, many occassions.

Mogadishu in Somalia, which is being repeated right now.
Need I say more!

mmmmining · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

KIWIKARLOS said:
The only places you can't would be ummm China, Iran, Zimbarbwi, Saudi Arabia, etc.

It is a false statement. Remember Tiananmen events. Students are allowed to protest at first, then it went too big, and out of control, widespread. The farmers are pretesting from time to time, it is allowed.

You can protest in Iran. Iran has the election, opposition party, etc. American movies and music are well enjoyed by the people.

Saudi Arabia, I don't know much. But it is American's friend, at least President Bush's friend, should allow protest. I don't think American people like it if otherwise.

Zimbarbwi, Where is that country?

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

On the subject of terrorist threat to this (local) region (and possibly Aus or Aus tourists) , Let's not forget that Indonesia continues to arrest suspects. - which is the good news. I think I heard that these blokes had 4 times the explosive used at Bali.
oops - found full article ..
NB the bit about them acting on tip-offs . That is what we MUST have in Aus as well !!!! We must not isolate the moderate moslems.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200704/s1889147.htm

Seized explosives 'four times bigger' than Bali bombs
By Geoff Thompson

Indonesia's National Police Chief says explosives recovered during anti-terrorism raids last month were powerful enough to cause a blast four to five times bigger than the 2002 Bali bombings.

The explosives were seized from a house in central Java after counter-terrorism police acted on tip-offs from suspected Jemaah Islamiah militants who were in police custody.

The suspected militants are believed to have links with JI military wing leader Abu Dujana.

The raids have been lauded by the Australian Federal Police, which called the operation a watershed in its joint efforts with Indonesia's National Police to contain the terrorist threat in the region.

In Jakarta, National Police Chief General Sutanto said that the seized explosives would have been four to five times more powerful than the first big Bali bombings if they had been detonated together.

The militant group in question held training exercises in central Java as recently as three months ago.

wayneL · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

bel532 said:
Oh and don't forget:

The Spanish train massacre.

Bali where, in addition to the Aussies, quite a number of Nordic and Balinese (Hindu) people were killed and seriously injured.

Russia on many,many occassions.

India on many, many occassions.

Mogadishu in Somalia, which is being repeated right now.
Need I say more!

Bel

What in your opinion should the west do about all this then?

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

mmmmining said:
Remember Tiananmen events. Students are allowed to protest at first, then it went too big, and out of control, widespread.

mining, you recall Bob Hawke crying as he discussed what happened? - now, I have always suspected that he (as PM with full access to intelligence briefings) saw footage that the rest of us (luckily) didn't see
Either way, it was obviously super ugly. These days China is slowly coming round to capitalism - probably we'll live to regret it lol (when they take our jobs) - but at least there is no more blood flowing in Tiananmen Sq.

PS I know we are getting off the subject - but the right to have a peaceful demonstration is pretty important yes?

lol I know PP&M are "old hat" - but this was the attitude in the 60's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgf2FeEe0sI

wayneL · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

2020hindsight said:
lol I know PP&M are "old hat" - but this was the attitude in the 60's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgf2FeEe0sI

Yeah.... what happened to us?

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

wayneL said:
Yeah.... what happened to us?

lol - personally m8 I find Easter the highlight of my year!!! Can hide my own easter eggs lol.

PS The missus loves Easter - goes to the Royal Easter show - just spends all day with the Clydesdales lol - she loves em

You know how people are supposed to resemble their pets ? ladies with flat noses like pugs, finicky people like poodles etc
(I am I because you are you lol) ....

Well I know this welder bloke does some steelwork for us at work - 3 pickhandles across the shoulders - his pets...
a team of Clydesdales lol.

which reminds me ----- the middle east at least has nice Arabian horses yes ? lol (notice how I stay on topic )

PS don't you love that line "a wrotten law stays on the books till folks with guts defy it !! -"
these days they through away the key m8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_horse The Arabian horse is a breed of horse with a reputation for intelligence, high spirit, and outstanding stamina. With a distinctively chiseled head and high tail carriage, the Arabian is one of the most easily recognizable horse breeds in the world.

Arabians are one of the oldest horse breeds. There is archaeological evidence of horses that resemble modern Arabians dating back 4,500 years. Throughout history, Arabian horses from the Middle East spread around the world by both war and trade, used to improve other breeds by adding speed, refinement, endurance, and good bone. Today, Arabian bloodlines are found in almost every modern breed of riding horse.[1]

The Arabian developed in a desert climate and was prized by the nomadic Bedouin people, often being brought inside the family tent for shelter and protection.[2] This close relationship with humans created a horse breed with a good disposition, quick to learn, and willing to please. But the Arabian also developed the high spirit and alertness needed in a horse used for raiding and war. This combination of willingness and sensitivity requires modern Arabian horse owners to handle their horses with competence and respect.

PS you know why they call a camel the ship of the desert - becos its full of arab seamen . - ?? never could understand that one

2020hindsight · 4 April 2007

Re: The Middle East - Set for disaster - again

hey Wayne !!!
how's this for a theory / proposition ....
let's sit down with the Arab nations
and we'll have a beer and they can drink goats milk
and we just talk horses all day
" nobody mention the war" as they say !!

Hell if the Aussies and the (moslem) Turks could break from warfare to play footy in no-man's land - there's hope for us all !!
(my daughter just corrected me - that should read "went to each others trenches and played cards " - no difference to the bottom line or the conclusion as they say )

PS I notice that there's no booze or loud music at Gallipoli this year . Anzac Day presents as a GREAT opportunity to try to understand each other yes ? - with all the benefit of the ghosts of our respective fathers on each of our shoulders. Hell, it's almost as if we were allies, lol. MAGIC. love it. mutual respect forever - built on the lives of the fallen from 90 years ago

"In an old Australian homestead, with its roses round the door
a girl receives a letter, tis a message from the law
with her mother's arms around her, she gives way to grief and sighs
and as she reads this letter, the tears roll from her eyes...

"Why do I weep , why do i pray
My love's asleep so far away
he played his part that fateful day
and now he lies on Suvla Bay. "

The Middle East and Western Asia: Bit of a hot spot?

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