The lunatic left

[wayneL]

The other side would be the Muslims who are outnumbered by those of the Jewish faith in Parliament, therefore they (the Jewish members) slant the laws to suit themselves.

I don't really have any objection to the outlawing of Nazi salutes etc, but what about the waving of Hamas flags etc, that should be outlawed as well.

If it is because of Jewish influence that Nazi iconography is outlawed, wouldn't you think that Hamas iconography would be outlawed as well? That ideology is a much more current and dangerous threat to the Jewish peopl.

Perhaps there is an imperative being analyzed with regards to the number of votes which may be sacrificed?

 

[sptrawler]

The other side would be the Muslims who are outnumbered by those of the Jewish faith in Parliament, therefore they (the Jewish members) slant the laws to suit themselves.

I don't really have any objection to the outlawing of Nazi salutes etc, but what about the waving of Hamas flags etc, that should be outlawed as well.

Australian politicians are there to represent their constituents and to further Australia's cause and future, they are not voted in on their religious beliefs or their place of origin, not all their constituents are from the same background.
Therefore if they can't seperate their spiritual and ethnic beliefs from their politics, they shouldn't be in politics IMO.

As for the salutes and flags, the more airplay it gets the more it grows, outlawing it will just send it underground and radicalise more those who really should just be ignored.
Same as those 60 guys, there was heaps of police at hand, just tell them if they get out of line they will cop it big time simple.
I've seen seemingly peaceful demonstrations end up in looting festival and it isn't always a right wing assembly of people.

Once the establishment says one sector of the community has more rights and freedoms and will be treated differently, to another sector of the community, you a driving the very agenda and issue, you are trying to stop IMO.

 

[SirRumpole]

If it is because of Jewish influence that Nazi iconography is outlawed, wouldn't you think that Hamas iconography would be outlawed as well? That ideology is a much more current and dangerous threat to the Jewish peopl.

Perhaps there is an imperative being analyzed with regards to the number of votes which may be sacrificed?

Ok fair enough, but t what "other cohorts" were you referring to?

 

[wayneL]

Ok fair enough, but t what "other cohorts" were you referring to?

Oh jeez.
Queers for Palestine
Socialist Workers Alliance
Communist Party of Australia
The left wing of the Australian Labor Party.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Both extremes are anti-semitic, the extreme right and the extreme left, so whichever of the multitude of groups which inhabit those particular cesspits of ideology, you will find those cohorts.

 

[SirRumpole]

Oh jeez.
Queers for Palestine
Socialist Workers Alliance
Communist Party of Australia
The left wing of the Australian Labor Party.

And that's just off the top of my head.

Both extremes are anti-semitic, the extreme right and the extreme left, so whichever of the multitude of groups which inhabit those particular cesspits of ideology, you will find those cohorts.

Banning the CPA has been tried. You might as well try to ban the Greens, they hold the balance of power.

 

[wayneL]

Banning the CPA has been tried. You might as well try to ban the Greens, they hold the balance of power.

Well good point. But I never suggested banning any of these groups and uncomfortable with banning any sort of iconography... My points thus far have been if-then analysis.

I'm not against banning Nazis, communists, queers, greens, or any other group.

Unless they insite violence, I say let them speak. I want to know who they are, what they think and what they think they are planning to do, so that I/we can make cogent arguments against them.

Oxygen is the best disinfectant.

 

[SirRumpole]

Well good point. But I never suggested banning any of these groups and uncomfortable with banning any sort of iconography... My points thus far have been if-then analysis.

I'm not against banning Nazis, communists, queers, greens, or any other group.

Unless they insite violence, I say let them speak. I want to know who they are, what they think and what they think they are planning to do, so that I/we can make cogent arguments against them.

Oxygen is the best disinfectant.

Yes I agree.

National Socialism could well be put up as a valid economic policy as has been done in other countries, its when they get into hate speech that you have to draw a line.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes I agree.

National Socialism could well be put up as a valid economic policy as has been done in other countries, its when they get into hate speech that you have to draw a line.

That's where I have a problem, I don't see a lot of difference between those who decry hate speech, yet use it to degrade those who they say are using it.
Isn't that the very reason we stopped corporal and capital punishment? The basis being, we are no better than the perpetrator, if we use the same punishment as the crime.
Yet if someone doesn't agree with a left agenda, anything said against it is hate speech, but then the left proceed to publicly shame and denigrate them for their stance and call it a moral victory.

Just a complete breakdown in Australian culture IMO, we are destroying what made Australia such a great classless society and changing it for the worse.

 

[SirRumpole]

That's where I have a problem, I don't see a lot of difference between those who decry hate speech, yet use it to degrade those who they say are using it.
Isn't that the very reason we stopped corporal and capital punishment? The basis being, we are no better than the perpetrator, if we use the same punishment as the crime.
Yet if someone doesn't agree with a left agenda, anything said against it is hate speech, but then the left proceed to publicly shame and denigrate them for their stance and call it a moral victory.

Just a complete breakdown in Australian culture IMO, we are destroying what made Australia such a great classless society and changing it for the worse.

When you vilify or incite violence against certain groups of people because they belong to that group, that's hate speech, but ideas or religious beliefs should be able to be questioned without being accused of discrimination or the like.

 

[wayneL]

When you vilify or incite violence against certain groups of people because they belong to that group, that's hate speech, but ideas or religious beliefs should be able to be questioned without being accused of discrimination or the like.

But where is that line?

I hate <ethnic food>
I hate <ethnic dress>
The <religious text> is BS
We shouldn't have more < ethnic group>immigration
<Forein Language> sounds stupid
All <religious group> should be deported to a friendly country.
All <religious group>should be shot.
From the river to the sea

Obviously some things are explicit, others implicit.

I am listening to a biblical scholar on yoootooob atm, it is VERY uncomfortable listening for Christian apologists and he had been accused of hate speech. But it is just data/dogma (clue there for those so inclined).

In another society he might be swinging from a tree already. In our society, for now, he has the freedom of scholarship.

My point... we really must guard against "blasphemy" laws.... And in my opinion, we may already be too late.

 

[Knobby22]

Hamas, Boko Haram, Isis, many others are listed as terrorist organisations in Australia with all that entails. Hamas was listed in 2022. So it is a lie, saying they are treated differently - they are treated more harshly than the Na.zis.

https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/terrorist-organisations/listed-terrorist-organisations

 

[sptrawler]

When you vilify or incite violence against certain groups of people because they belong to that group, that's hate speech, but ideas or religious beliefs should be able to be questioned without being accused of discrimination or the like.

Exactly.
And on the same basis, those with religious or cultural beliefs should be able to recite and follow their beliefs, without being vilified, penalised, or ostracised for having those beliefs.
As long as it doesn't cause violence, or finacial loss to other groups.

 

[sptrawler]

When you vilify or incite violence against certain groups of people because they belong to that group, that's hate speech, but ideas or religious beliefs should be able to be questioned without being accused of discrimination or the like.

Exactly.
And on the same basis, those with religious or cultural beliefs should be able to recite and follow their beliefs, without being vilified, penalised, or ostracised for having those beliefs.
As long as it doesn't cause violence, or finacial loss to other groups.

That was what was so wonderful about Australia when I came here, there wasn't a class society, there wasn't an us and them, unlike the U.K where I came from as an 8 year old kid, it was amazing.
We all ran around in bare feet, I threw mine in the bin because I was the only kid in Carey Park Primary wearing shoes, I also copped a hell of thrashing for doing that.
We all lived in State Housing Commission homes, until our parents could afford to either buy a house, or buy the housing commission home.
We were all Wogs, Pommie ba$tards, Daigos,Abbos or Lebbos, we all laughed and played sport together, there wasn't this class divide based on either a feeling of being disenfranchised, or of being some great saviour of the poor, that can claim moral brownie points, we were just Aussies trying to get ahead.

Now look at us, what a Fckn mess, all politicians should be ashamed of what we have achieved IMO.
Albo should think back to his time in the Housing Commission home, with his Mum, it made him what he is today, hopefully he reflects and brings back that what he fought for when he first started on his journey.
He is the best chance we have and hopefully he bites the bullet and blows this housing ponzi to hell.
Once that is done, those disadvantaged at the bottom have a glimmer of hope, all they have at the moment is no hope, so why not commit a crime, what's to lose? Why get a job, i'll never be able to buy a house.
My rant, its been quite a while.

Where has all the headlines about the poor first home buyers who can never get a house gone, obviously the narrative has moved on and the homeless are in more $hit.
I guess we wait until the next time we want to weaponise it.

Millions of home owners made $3,000 in January but probably didn’t notice

It seems there's no stopping the march forward in the Australian property market, with housing prices expected to continue to rise by about 6 per cent in capital cities through 2024.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SirRumpole]

That was what was so wonderful about Australia when I came here, there wasn't a class society, there wasn't an us and them, unlike the U.K where I came from as an 8 year old kid, it was amazing.
We all ran around in bare feet, I threw mine in the bin because I was the only kid in Carey Park Primary wearing shoes, I also copped a hell of thrashing for doing that.
We all lived in State Housing Commission homes, until our parents could afford to either buy a house, or buy the housing commission home.
We were all Wogs, Pommie ba$tards, Daigos,Abbos or Lebbos, we all laughed and played sport together, there wasn't this class divide based on either a feeling of being disenfranchised, or of being some great saviour of the poor, that can claim moral brownie points, we were just Aussies trying to get ahead.

Now look at us, what a Fckn mess, all politicians should be ashamed of what we have achieved IMO.
Albo should think back to his time in the Housing Commission home, with his Mum, it made him what he is today, hopefully he reflects and brings back that what he fought for when he first started on his journey.
He is the best chance we have and hopefully he bites the bullet and blows this housing ponzi to hell.
Once that is done, those disadvantaged at the bottom have a glimmer of hope, all they have at the moment is no hope, so why not commit a crime, what's to lose? Why get a job, i'll never be able to buy a house.
My rant, its been quite a while.

Where has all the headlines about the poor first home buyers who can never get a house gone, obviously the narrative has moved on and the homeless are in more $hit.
I guess we wait until the next time we want to weaponise it.

Millions of home owners made $3,000 in January but probably didn’t notice

It seems there's no stopping the march forward in the Australian property market, with housing prices expected to continue to rise by about 6 per cent in capital cities through 2024.

www.abc.net.au

I'm not sure Albo will do anything about the housing crisis except fiddle around the edges.

The main causes are rapid population increase and tax deductions for investors that price home buyers out of the market.

He has shown little determination to fix these , so it may be up to (gulp) The Greens to force any changes.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not sure Albo will do anything about the housing crisis except fiddle around the edges.

The main causes are rapid population increase and tax deductions for investors that price home buyers out of the market.

He has shown little determination to fix these , so it may be up to (gulp) The Greens to force any changes.

The only way IMO is to can negative gearing on housing above a certain amount and allow first home buyers to offset their mortage interest up to the same amount and State Govt to go back to building social housing in house.

 

[Smurf1976]

Just a complete breakdown in Australian culture IMO, we are destroying what made Australia such a great classless society and changing it for the worse.

As I see it, an unbiased outsider looking in would be wondering why, exactly, Australians have decided to borrow a fortune in order to own the same patches of dirt and piles of bricks they already had.

The answer, of course, is that getting young people to take on massive debt in order to hand the money to older people, and in a big picture sense that's exactly what it amounts to, is really just a way to keep the party going in the face of structural economic decline.

We need get back to creating real wealth rather than the current mentality of smashing every piggy bank we can find, running down the inventory of everything in the cupboard, selling off the farm piece by piece and running up massive debts with anyone who'll lend.

 

[Smurf1976]

When you vilify or incite violence against certain groups of people because they belong to that group, that's hate speech, but ideas or religious beliefs should be able to be questioned without being accused of discrimination or the like.

I'll simply note that traditionally it's progressive politics that relies on the ability to challenge conventional wisdom and to question anything without fear.

Looking back at the big stuff over the decades, the common theme between anti-war protests, environmentalism, anti-racism, various social issues and so on was the ability to challenge conventional wisdom and to express alternative perspectives without undue consequence.

The modern version of the Left has killed real progressive politics in a way those who disagreed on specific ideas in the past never contemplated.

 

[SirRumpole]

Greta gets off.

Climate activist Greta Thunberg cleared of public order offence

A London judge clears Greta Thunberg of a public order offence, ruling that the police had no power to arrest her and other climate activists.

www.abc.net.au

 

[TimeISmoney]

I'm not sure Albo will do anything about the housing crisis except fiddle around the edges.

The main causes are rapid population increase and tax deductions for investors that price home buyers out of the market.

He has shown little determination to fix these , so it may be up to (gulp) The Greens to force any changes.

Always the investor's fault?

Less than 30% of the housing market is held by them.

Less than 50% use negative gearing

The burden of extra costs is thrown on them, eg. land taxes, increased land rates, and increased council charges.

You can buy houses these days with a 2% deposit. That's not offered to investors.
People think they're at school where they get a participating award, but the real world isn't like that because you have to work hard towards any real goal.

Family Home Guarantee | Housing Australia

www.housingaustralia.gov.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Less than 30% of the housing market is held by them.

30% is a large proportion of the market.