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The Health and Fitness Thread


What I originally said

However, there are examples of landlocked communities (Ecuador, Bhutan, Tibet) who rarely if ever eat fish, and only minimal other flesh....certainly not enough to meet the levels the literature advocates.


What the literature says:

"The main staple food, tsampa (Tibetan toasted
flour) was made from barley. Wheat and maize
were also eaten in Tibet. Most of the Tibetans in
Tibet preferred three regular meals in a day. The
first meal was taken in the morning usually with
tsampa soup, sometimes with roasted soyabeans,
pieces of chura (dried cheese), butter and
occasionally with dried meat and tsilu (dried fat).
They took hot buttered tea with the soup. The
major meal of the day was served at noon and
dinner was always light. The native Tibetans
confined themselves to eating mutton and pork
as much as necessary. Beef was not a taboo in
ancient Tibet but they refrained themselves from
eating water born animals such as fish, crabs,
shrimps and various other seafood. They believed
it was sinful to kill an animal with full of life."


Note they don't do fish.

The graph below shows Tibetan women do 11% PRO and 70% CHO, hardly a Paleo diet, and not enough for EPA and DHA in Paleo quantities, especially when you consider the protein contribution from their high intake of grains and pulses



 

But still it is not the point that matters

motorway
 
Tibetan sheep being milked near Mun Tso at about 5000 m in west central Tibet. Sheep lamb in February and March and, beginning in June, after the lambs are weaned, sheep are milked twice a day.




" What I originally said

However, there are examples of landlocked communities (Ecuador, Bhutan, Tibet) who rarely if ever eat fish, and only minimal other flesh....certainly not enough to meet the levels the literature advocates.
"


Have a look at the landscape you could eat the stones I suppose

A family with this many sheep would slaughter 30 sheep every year for their own meat consumption. The wool from Tibetan sheep is also one of the best carpet wools in the world.


But it still has nothing to do with what is an optimal diet


motorway
 

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If it is in the milk then it is in the meat





"Our results suggest that cheese from yak, grazed on Himalayan alpine pastures, might have a more healthful fatty acid composition compared to cheese manufactured from dairy cattle fed grain-based diets,"

Yep, Grain is really a suitable food for
Birds ( they have crops )

See the animal & hominid studies mentioned earlier

motorway
 
If it is in the milk then it is in the meat

motorway

OK Motor, I see you prefer to meander off into your own imagined late night postulations, rather than weight published studies appropriately.

Check the table I posted for the average amount of dairy consumed by Tibetan women.

Good luck on your Paleo diet and getting your grass fed kit.

Meanwhile I'll weight the scientific opinion that criticizes Cordain appropriately, and await the Paleo zealots production of a longitudinal study of typical sedentary westerners on the diet.
 
The Paleo diet

Leads to natural foods

very high nutrient content

away from artificial foods

with trans fats and other anti nutrients...




motorway



Because the estimated amount of genetic change (0.005%) which has occurred in the human genome over this time period is negligible, the genetic makeup of modern man has remained essentially unchanged from that of pre-agricultural man
 
The Paleo diet

Leads to natural foods

very high nutrient content

away from artificial foods

with trans fats and other anti nutrients...




motorway


You can put your faith in and turn a blind eye to a more objective and considered context, of as many anecdotes as you like Motor. I am sure you would be a lot healthier and happier, if you didn't have to struggle to raise money to pay off a home and bring up children who can't live with computers, xboxes and mobile phones; but in place of, had to expend more energy for short term food security.

Ultimately, psychoemotional stressors stress not only the psyche and emotions, but the physiology. Until the paleo diet is scientifically tested using randomized controlled trials of sufficient size and adequate adherence, on people living typically stressful sedentary competitive and densely populated urban western lifestyles, then its superiority as a diet for such is faith based.

HGs living a life more susceptible to drought, flood, population pressure, and other sources of intermittent food scarcity, will have more intense selection pressure applied to their gene pool. Runts and the weak and mutations that don't offer a selection advantage will be filtered out much more efficiently than has been the course in a JudeoChristian culture that values compassion for the weak and sick, let alone in a free market system where selection favours intelligence and enterprise over physical prowess.
 
"While we can continue to debate (and we should) the exact amounts and rates of change in human physiology and the dietary amount of animal products vs. fruits/vegetables, etc. - an obvious fact is that the amount of time we and our ancestors have had mass agriculture and industrial era food is incredibly small indeed … and not debatable.


When we talk about “evolutionary discordance” in regard to our modern diet vs. the Paleo Diet, this is what it means in one very real sense. A diet based on the way humans ate for a couple million years will lead to optimum health and greatly reduce the risk of degenerative disease."

Loren Cordain



You can put your faith in and turn a blind eye to a more objective and considered context
Not a matter of faith the above is the considered context that I find a good starting point....

Or do you dispute the dates of Agricultural and Industrial revolutions

Are you a creationist ?

Is the Swami you were talking about ?

From that starting point
You can go your own way

But unless you disagree with those facts
Why start from somewhere else what ever your "faith"




motorway
 

None of that makes much sense

They do just as worse on modern diets as we do

They do not have superior genes

And I would not doubt there intelligence
or think it inferior to JudeoChristians

What point are you trying to make with this ?

That HG were saved
by Judeochistian culture and western diets

motorway
 

Of course not.....JudeoChristians are intent on systematically destroying Indigenous Australian HG life advantage, by giving them money for nothing so they forget their traditional diet, and live and eat like non IA welfare recipients.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on human growth hormone, I'm told it works.
 

What are HG's?

The only HG I know is a mate of Roy's.

gg
 
I guess it's been a couple of months since I quit drinking and embarked on a more nutritious diet and I have noticed a couple of things that are worth mentioning.

I used to suffer from gastric reflux quite badly and I could rarely get through the night without waking up from it at least once.

Secondly I also had frequent allergic reactions, often after eating, although I never did work out what specific foods were the problem.

I'm pleased to say that both problems seem to have cleared up.

I have no idea why the heartburn is gone, but I have found out that there is a connection between allergies and diet deficiencies.

It seems that I have cured my allergy problem simply by improving my nutrition.

I'm in the process of digging up some more info on this, but I did find this link which is an extract from a book titled Allergy and Immunology.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#PPA395,M1
 
Anyone have any thoughts on human growth hormone, I'm told it works.

Mr Burns, here is an article with plenty of info on HGH, including pro's and con's.


by Cameron Houston and Jill Stark

The illicit trade in human growth hormone has moved to expensive anti-ageing clinics. Cameron Houston and Jill Stark investigate the boom.

MIDDLE-AGED men are increasingly injecting human growth hormone in a bid to fight old age, spending up to $15,000 a year on a drug they believe is the fountain of youth.

Government guidelines state it should only be prescribed to children with growth disorders and adults with severe hormone deficiencies.

But a Sunday Age investigation has found many anti-ageing clinics in Melbourne's wealthier suburbs are flouting regulations by prescribing to people as young as 35 who want to look good, stay fit and boost their sex lives.

Most are men who use human growth hormone (HGH) to improve fitness and energy levels, but leading specialists claim it can have serious side-effects.

Black-market sales are also booming, with a former dealer claiming $5000 worth of the drug can fetch up to $50,000 on the street. Possession is illegal without a prescription and importation is prohibited.

The dealer said some people were getting the hormone for personal use from anti-ageing clinics then selling it for profit.

Australian Customs has reported a four-fold increase in HGH seizures in the last year. Imports from China have risen steeply but the United States remains the main source of supply.

While six pharmaceutical companies contacted by The Sunday Age refused to confirm figures, a senior industry source said HGH sales had soared during the past two years.

"There is no logical explanation for the significant rise ”” other than most of it is being taken by middle-aged men trying to look younger," the source said.

John Levin, a 77-year-old Prahran doctor, has been injecting the drug for 15 years and prescribes it to 100 patients who want to delay old age.

He says 70 per cent are men and insists there are no health risks at low doses, typically less than 0.33 milligrams a day.

"I feel great, I feel like I'm 50 ”” and I'm going to be 80 in two years," Dr Levin said. "I don't give it to my patients for aesthetic reasons. I give it purely to get a better quality of life."

Human growth hormone is secreted naturally by the brain's pituitary gland and promotes growth during childhood and adolescence by stimulating production of an insulin-like growth factor in the liver.

Levels of HGH deplete as the body ages. The synthetic form of the hormone ”” which is not on the pharmaceutical benefits scheme ”” is injected daily and costs $125 to $200 a week with a private prescription.

Doctors can prescribe the drug "off-label" ”” outside the purpose approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration ”” if they deem it "medically appropriate".

Human growth hormone builds muscle mass and helps to reduce fat. Some anti-ageing doctors claim the drug also reduces wrinkles, improves skin appearance and lowers cholesterol.

Endocrinologists, who are specialists in hormones and glands, say the claims are not backed by scientific evidence, and have hit out at "unscrupulous" doctors prescribing the drug for non-medical reasons.

They say that for people with a normally functioning pituitary gland, growth hormone treatment is potentially dangerous even in small doses. Ken Ho, chair of endocrinology at St Vincent's Hospital in Sydney, said misuse could increase the risk of cancer and elongate the jaw.

Professor Ho said the medical properties of HGH were being exploited by anti-ageing clinics.

"They are trying to sell an expectation that if you're 55 and you no longer have the body of a 21-year-old, then you can reclaim former glories by taking these drugs. There are claims about improved sex life, which are completely unfounded … They are trying to tell you that ageing is an insidious disease, but there is no hormone that can stop ageing."

Dr Martin Hill, of Life Sense clinic in Windsor, is known to prescribe and supply HGH to men as young as 35, after conducting blood tests and a prostate examination. He is believed to have told patients in consultations that he personally used it and the only side-effect was the cost.

A prominent endocrinologist said he had seen a number of Dr Hill's patients, who had been given an "incredible mixture of medications". One woman was allegedly given five different hormone treatments by Dr Hill and was being sued by an insurance company over a $100,000 debt.

In a letter in response to questions from The Sunday Age, Dr Hill's lawyer wrote: "Dr Hill's management of his patients is supported by substantial scientific and medical research and literature."

Doctors from anti-ageing clinics in Prahran and South Yarra are also prescribing the hormone.

David (not his real name), a health practitioner, was prescribed it a year ago after a serious back injury. He pays $125 a week for the drug, which he injects daily into his stomach. "If I was rich I'd probably use it forever. It's all about a lifestyle, where you want to stay young and fit and healthy and hopefully live to 100," he said.

David was initially rejected by several Melbourne doctors because of his age. "The first guy panicked when he found out I was only 39. Doctors need to move with the times and embrace new ideas," he said.

A Melbourne body builder, who asked not to be named, started taking equine and pig growth hormones about a decade ago and was a dealer in HGH for five years, his supply sourced mainly from South Australia.

He said demand had shifted from body builders to affluent white-collar workers, nightclubs and gays. He also claimed to have supplied an AFL footballer and three professional rugby players, who used it to improve performance.

"When you're training at the gym, you feel like you're bouncing of the walls from one machine to another; it's almost like an amphetamine. It also makes your sex drive go through the roof ”” you'll be having sex twice, three times a day," he said.

Delaying the march of time is big business ”” in the US the anti-ageing sector is expected to rake in $US106 billion ($A139 billion) this year, rising to more than $US115 billion by 2010. The AustralAsian Academy of Anti-Ageing Medicine describes it as the "fastest-growing medical speciality in the world".

Chairman Bill Anton insists the use of growth hormone is a very small part of what they practise and is prescribed to fewer than 10 per cent of patients treated by the academy's 200 members.

He says those who are given the drug are expected to follow a nutrition and exercise regime, and are closely monitored with regular blood tests. But he concedes tighter regulation is needed, as some doctors are not prescribing responsibly.

"There's a whole lot of cowboys who have gone off to do a one-hour seminar somewhere and found out it's the fountain of youth ”” that is not the case. Growth hormone deserves the same level of respect as we give any other hormone," he said.

Dr Anton, a biochemist, said endocrinologists were critical because they feared anti-ageing doctors were encroaching on their patch. He said there was no evidence that growth hormone caused cancer, citing an array of peer-reviewed journal articles that proved it had many benefits.

"With innovation, first everybody calls you a charlatan, a crook, an idiot, and as the momentum builds up they steal the ideas and call it their own. All I'm saying is there is a place and a use for growth hormone."

But while Dr Anton claims it is not used for aesthetic purposes, some in the sector freely admit to prescribing HGH to those who want to lose weight and boost sexual prowess.

Gabrielle Caswell from the Cosmetic Physicians Society of Australia said about 15 per cent of its 450 members prescribed growth hormone.

She said demand soared in 2007 when Hollywood star Sylvester Stallone was caught by customs officials at Sydney Airport trying to bring 48 vials of the drug into Australia. When asked by customs officials why he used it, the actor, then 60, said it gave his body a boost and made him look and feel good, adding: "Doing Rambo is hard work."

Dr Caswell said HGH was popular with men over 45 who often found it dramatically improved their skin. "Inwards, they will tell you that they have a lot more energy and they're obviously very happy with the results if they do actually lose weight and feel more physically attractive," she said.

Use of the drug has divided the sector. Joe Kosterich, head of the Australasian Institute of Antiageing Medicine, said the definition of growth hormone deficiency was a "grey area".

"Generally speaking, most adults are not going to be deficient in human growth hormone, so there is going to be some usage that does skirt close to the legal boundary," he said.

Michael Rich, who runs a cosmetic surgery clinic in Armadale, said patients often asked for growth hormone but he refuses, as prescribing without adequate training would be negligent.

"I had a patient recently who had liposuction and he was a member of one of those gangs. He was a big fella, and he was … (using) a lot of growth hormone every day … I don't know where he was getting it from; he certainly wasn't getting it through medical means," Dr Rich said.

Sports medicine experts believe the use of HGH in elite sports has largely been eradicated since a blood test to detect the substance was introduced before the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Last year, the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority banned cyclist Andrew Wyper after customs seized a shipment of HGH the 20-year-old had been trying to import. Another cyclist, Mark Roland, was also banned last year for using the drug.
 
continued...

The Australian Medical Association is concerned that vulnerable people who will pay anything to stay young are being exploited. But investigations into the prescribing habits of individual doctors are often only launched after a patient makes a complaint. With the long-term effects of HGH still unknown, it is difficult for regulatory bodies to intervene.

Victorian Health Services Commissioner Beth Wilson, who fields consumers' medical complaints, said the anti-ageing industry often exaggerated benefits and played down risks: "It's really scary how people's fear of their own body image and ageing has been manipulated by the industry.

"But the claims of the anti-ageing industry are doomed to failure because the last time anyone looked at the statistics for human mortality, it was 100 per cent."
 

I still don't reckon that we should be encouraging you haemorrhoidal fanatics with veins down to your big toes to survive.

You are going to be a huge cost to an overburdened health system.

Why don't you all migrate to California where they will be able to deal with you.

You are un Australian, overmuscled narcissists in my opinion., with piles and varicose veins.

gg
 

GG,

I was merely providing info to Mr Burns, who was asking about HGH. As the article states, the majority who use HGH use it to increase quality of life, not big muscles or athletic performance.

You whinge about Pom's coming over here with their alcohol induced liver problems being a burdon on our health system, but also complain about people into health and fitness people being a burdon too? You seem to do more whinging than the Pom's that you are whinging about.

Un Australian? I've spent 4yrs in the ADF and served my country overseas, but I guess that doesn't make me Australian because I don't eat meat pies or get blind drunk every weekend...

For the record I have never used HGH, but would definitely explore the idea in 20+yrs time if I felt the need.
 

Accept your points gav, though do not nessarily agree with them.

Having non producive people going to gyms to prolong their lives is not good, considering that the young who follow on will have less assets to make their life more endurable.

I was in the adf for 10 years and understand where you are coming from.

I just don't want to end up with a mob of demented fit old bastards who we have to care for.

So all this health and fitness stuff to me is pure crap, keeping the anxious well alive to burden future genrations.

I'd prefer to spend the money on parenting skills, decreasing marital breakups and immunisations.

and as for pommies, wel they are pommies.

gg
 

Yeah thanks Gav, I spoke to John Levin last week.

It sounds legit, but he says there are other supplements you need to take at the same time and you have to be very dedicated to keep it up.

Says aging strips away muscle, increases body fat and thins the skin.

HGH reverses all that, you will lose 10% body fat with NO exercise, muscle mass will increase and your skin will thicken.

Very tempted to go see him.
 
P/s this isnt about body building it's about staying independent when older, feeling good enjoying life.
 
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