The Gillard Government

nulla nulla · 12 May 2011

Knobby22 said:
I've got a daughter who will need braces one day AND I have friends who live in Manila (they teach at the international school). Sounds like this is the way to go. The orthondontists here will get narky though.

Are you going to fly to Manila on a regular basis to have the braces adjusted as the teeth move into the desired positions? In the early stages after the braces have been fitted, they are adjusted every 6 weeks or so to manage the movement of the teeth.

Then the visits spread out as the placement is fine tuned. Eventually the visits go from 3 to 6 months. There are also the followup visits after the braces come off for the fitting of the retainer and the visits go out to 6 then 12 months. Could be a lot of International trips.

Julia · 12 May 2011

Knobby22 said:
Aren't Australian dentists the dearest in the world? If GPs were paid commensuarately it would be $120 a visit.

Well, if GPs did not receive the very considerable Medicare payment, then indeed it probably would be $120 a visit.

I don't know what the comparative incomes of GPs and dentists are, but isn't it quite possible they are very similar, just derived from different bases?

Just silly to compare dental fees with those of medical doctors when one group receives no taxpayer subsidies and the other receives often quite generous amounts.

medicowallet · 12 May 2011

Julia said:
Well, if GPs did not receive the very considerable Medicare payment, then indeed it probably would be $120 a visit.

I don't know what the comparative incomes of GPs and dentists are, but isn't it quite possible they are very similar, just derived from different bases?

Just silly to compare dental fees with those of medical doctors when one group receives no taxpayer subsidies and the other receives often quite generous amounts.

What is the "very considerable" medicare payment Julia?

Do people realise that doctors spend a minimum of 10 years training, and not only is it difficult (ie the content is extensive and complex), the stresses of the job are unfathomable to the lay person. How many of you make life or death decisions for people who you are face to face with every day?

A full time GP will see around 25-30 patients per day, for about 10 hours work per day (the paperwork is a nightmare), and collect 60%ish of the income they generate for the practice.

Yes dentists and doctors make similar amounts. Which would you choose?

Julia · 12 May 2011

Oh dear, can't be bothered engaging in another unrewarding discourse with you Medicowallet.

I was simply pointing out that it's not valid to compare what we as patients pay to doctors and dentists when one group receives a government subsidy and the other doesn't.

trainspotter · 12 May 2011

medicowallet said:
What is the "very considerable" medicare payment Julia?

Do people realise that doctors spend a minimum of 10 years training, and not only is it difficult (ie the content is extensive and complex), the stresses of the job are unfathomable to the lay person. How many of you make life or death decisions for people who you are face to face with every day?

A full time GP will see around 25-30 patients per day, for about 10 hours work per day (the paperwork is a nightmare), and collect 60%ish of the income they generate for the practice.

Yes dentists and doctors make similar amounts. Which would you choose?

10 years of training does not make them competent. Me as a lay person would obviously not understand as to how difficult your job must be.

I make life and death choices every day with my crew. Tiger sharks don't invite you to dinner. Blue ring octopus don't care if you are an MD or a lay person. The capstan winch rated to 10,000 kg does not mind taking your head off if you are not careful. I am the one that instructs them to get in the water or to shuck shell and to winch. Yep .... I wish I was making these kinds of decisions.

Logique · 13 May 2011

You couldn't pay me enough to be a GP, especially in a one or two doctor practice in the bush. I admire anyone who can stick it out. Just brutal.

Dentistry seems to have more regular hours, and a more orderly environment to work in. But it is damned pricey. I understand a big problem with proposals for socialized dentistry is finding the dentists willing to take a pay cut!

Skilled migration program - here's a thought, what about a boatload of Filipino dentists, and help them set up in practices. Seriously.

If this was proposed, watch the dentist's equivalent of the AMA jump up and down about the qualifications of the foreigners. Nice cosy closed market that they have now.

trainspotter · 13 May 2011

Maybe some of the 4000 genuine refugees we are getting from Malaysia will fill the gap?

Meanwhile back at the ranch:- http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/25548/

Amnesty International holds grave concerns for the fate of any asylum seekers sent to Malaysia under the Australian Government's new deal.

Malaysia is not a signatory to the UN Refugee Convention, and an Amnesty International report released just last year documented serious human rights abuses against refugees.

medicowallet · 13 May 2011

trainspotter said:
10 years of training does not make them competent. Me as a lay person would obviously not understand as to how difficult your job must be.

I make life and death choices every day with my crew. Tiger sharks don't invite you to dinner. Blue ring octopus don't care if you are an MD or a lay person. The capstan winch rated to 10,000 kg does not mind taking your head off if you are not careful. I am the one that instructs them to get in the water or to shuck shell and to winch. Yep .... I wish I was making these kinds of decisions.

10 years of training makes them competent in most things. It is extremely difficult to complete a specialist training program.

Yes workplace health and safety is an issue, these also occur in medicine.

But making decisions which can determine the outcome of someone's life is not something that is to be taken lightly, nor without stress.

eg even the treatments ordered are fraught with danger and done so with probabilities.

I understand that a lot of jobs are dangerous, heck I used to work in heavy industry. I can just assure you that the responsibilities of being a GP or physician are extraordinary, and you may take offense at this, but yours would be nothing like it.

How many of your crew have died due to decisions you have made? Do you sleep well because of this?

Julia said:
Oh dear, can't be bothered engaging in another unrewarding discourse with you Medicowallet.

I was simply pointing out that it's not valid to compare what we as patients pay to doctors and dentists when one group receives a government subsidy and the other doesn't.

A government subsidy yes, is it adequate, no.

Otherwise I agree entirely with you.

trainspotter · 13 May 2011

I typed this into Google - "How many times does a GP misdiagnose?"

The answer - About 22,000,000 results (0.21 seconds) Yep .... that is twenty two million results on misdiagnosis for GP's. Apparently one in six patients is misdiagnosed. Competent eh?

Main culprit is LACK OF TIME - It really is quite sad how little time a doctor will typically spend with a patient. We're all used to something like a 15 minutes appointment. That doesn't give the doctor much time to ask a few questions, make a tentative diagnosis, order some blood tests to confirm it, and then answer some questions from the patient. We'd all like to think that, later, the doctor went and double-checked our disease in their books, with other specialists, and consulted the latest research about how to diagnose and treat it correctly, but it seems rather unlikely! In reality, doctors have to shoot from the hip, and although they'll hit the mark with most common diseases, they can get tricked up by rarer conditions.

Read more at http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/intro/why.htm?ktrack=kcplink

None of my crew are pushing up daisies as I have so far managed to make the correct decision given the risk factors involved within the chosen task. *whew*

medicowallet · 13 May 2011

trainspotter said:
I typed this into Google - "How many times does a GP misdiagnose?"

The answer - About 22,000,000 results (0.21 seconds) Yep .... that is twenty two million results on misdiagnosis for GP's. Apparently one in six patients is misdiagnosed. Competent eh?

Main culprit is LACK OF TIME - It really is quite sad how little time a doctor will typically spend with a patient. We're all used to something like a 15 minutes appointment. That doesn't give the doctor much time to ask a few questions, make a tentative diagnosis, order some blood tests to confirm it, and then answer some questions from the patient. We'd all like to think that, later, the doctor went and double-checked our disease in their books, with other specialists, and consulted the latest research about how to diagnose and treat it correctly, but it seems rather unlikely! In reality, doctors have to shoot from the hip, and although they'll hit the mark with most common diseases, they can get tricked up by rarer conditions.

Read more at http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/intro/why.htm?ktrack=kcplink

None of my crew are pushing up daisies as I have so far managed to make the correct decision given the risk factors involved within the chosen task. *whew*

Sorry mate, your post makes you look like a fool.

Perhaps young people do not understand.

OF COURSE doctors misdiagnose, that is what I said!!!!

Just because your decisions are easy, doesn't make doctor's decisions easy too mate.

drsmith · 13 May 2011

So,

whats worse ?

Appendicitis, tooth abscess or the Gillard Government ?

medicowallet · 13 May 2011

drsmith said:
So,

whats worse ?

Appendicitis, tooth abscess or the Gillard Government ?

They can all give you the runs... I'd say Gillard Government.

Seriously, I cannot fathom the waste and stupidly consistent stupid ideas.

moXJO · 14 May 2011

medicowallet said:
But making decisions which can determine the outcome of someone's life is not something that is to be taken lightly, nor without stress.

eg even the treatments ordered are fraught with danger and done so with probabilities.

I understand that a lot of jobs are dangerous, heck I used to work in heavy industry. I can just assure you that the responsibilities of being a GP or physician are extraordinary, and you may take offense at this, but yours would be nothing like it.

How many of your crew have died due to decisions you have made? Do you sleep well because of this?

.

Soldiers might be a tad bit more stressful and with crap pay in comparison, then there is police, engineers etc.
The majority of doctors I have met are useless and couldn't diagnose that your ass was on fire. As for the pay come on, I fix a lot of doctors houses and they are on the mansion scale with two mercs and multiple investment properties. Yes they work hard, but the are well compensated

medicowallet · 14 May 2011

moXJO said:
Soldiers might be a tad bit more stressful and with crap pay in comparison, then there is police, engineers etc.

I'll pay that.

those are difficult jobs too. I agree, all would probably be more stressful than being a dentist

But in reality soldiers, even though horrendous, are rarely deployed.
And then it is the elite, normal grunts are very rarely posted anywhere.

moXJO said:
The majority of doctors I have met are useless and couldn't diagnose that your ass was on fire. As for the pay come on, I fix a lot of doctors houses and they are on the mansion scale with two mercs and multiple investment properties. Yes they work hard, but the are well compensated

Most builders don't know what 90 degrees is

trainspotter · 14 May 2011

medicowallet said:
Sorry mate, your post makes you look like a fool.

Perhaps young people do not understand.

OF COURSE doctors misdiagnose, that is what I said!!!!

Just because your decisions are easy, doesn't make doctor's decisions easy too mate.

Ahhhhhhhhh yes but a very rich fool.

Young ??? Young??? Chronologically challenged ??? You do me proud MD. Yet another misdiagnosis.

Nope ...... you did not say anything about misdiagnosis. You were too quick to prattle on about how your vocation is more stressful and more important than any other job in the world and you went on to say that the "lay man" would not comprehend the "extraordinary" responsibilities you suffer in your line of work.

Whoooooppeeeeeeeeee ...... you are a doctor. An associate of mine is a retired nuclear physicist and yet another is a psychologist. I also include truck drivers and plumbers in my sphere of operations.

My decisions are easy are they?? So when the tow rope has snapped in 5 metre seas and howling 35 knots from the South West in 151 metres of depth do I call on you to get in the water to swim? Just LOL.

Calliope · 14 May 2011

Meanwhile back at the ranch... I noticed that in the Galaxy poll, 11% of voters think that Labor are sound economic managers. They must be either very rusted on, or demented, or both.

sails · 14 May 2011

Calliope said:
Meanwhile back at the ranch... I noticed that in the Galaxy poll, 11% of voters think that Labor are sound economic managers. They must be either very rusted on, or demented, or both.

Yeah - almost 90% think they are not...lol. And among other things:

72 percent did not back the budget and 39 per cent of those said it was bad for the country.

60 per cent of the older Australians surveyed said that they didn't support the $300 million digital set-top box scheme.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ght-for-nation-poll-wrong-20110514-1en3e.html

Calliope · 14 May 2011

sails said:
Yeah - almost 90% think they are not...lol. And among other things:

72 percent did not back the budget and 39 per cent of those said it was bad for the country.

60 per cent of the older Australians surveyed said that they didn't support the $300 million digital set-top box scheme.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...ght-for-nation-poll-wrong-20110514-1en3e.html

Finance Minister Penny Wong doesn't give a rat's behind whether we like the budget or not. I guess we are too dumbed-down to know what's good for us.

FEDERAL Finance Minister Penny Wong says the budget is what's right for the country, playing down a damaging poll that shows it doesn't have the support of many Australians.

A Galaxy Poll, published today in Sydney’s Daily Telegraph, showed only 28 per cent of respondents backed the budget, with 39 per cent saying it was bad for the country.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-supports-budget/story-fn8gf1nz-1226055814168

Calliope · 14 May 2011

Meanwhile Swannie is not worried as long as he can get a fair suck of the sav.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/voters-not-buying-tough-love-budget/story-fn6ck45n-1226055594409

trainspotter · 14 May 2011

Criticism of population plan unjust - Wong http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...plan-unjust-wong/story-e6frfku0-1226055803182

Is it a case of two Wongs don't make it white?

That must be the carbon tax sausage sandwich that dimwit is swallowing.

A DETAILED analysis of electricity charges has found that the jump in power bills caused by the Government's carbon pricing plan would be a snack for most families - the cost of a weekly sausage sandwich.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/carbon...te/story-e6frfmci-1226043193869#ixzz0nsCdjthy

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