The future of energy generation and storage

[Tisme]

https://www.inverse.com/article/34239-how-many-solar-panels-to-power-the-usa

"Surprisingly, Musk said he does feel some pity for big oil, in that when those companies were founded more than 100 years ago, there was very little indication that their logos would be seen as villainous a few generations later.

“They worked really hard to create those companies,” Musk said. “They feel like they are being attacked on moral grounds. And it is true that we cannot instantaneously change to a sustainable situation.”

He added one caveat, though: “But then those guys will also fight pretty hard to slow down the change, and that’s really what I think is morally wrong.”"

 

[moXJO]

and electrical fitters with glee

Electric motors and cars should be pretty cheap in comparison (bar the batteries) you would think?
I wonder if each company will lock down their IP and only allow repairs by their dealerships.

 

[Tisme]

Electric motors and cars should be pretty cheap in comparison (bar the batteries) you would think?
I wonder if each company will lock down their IP and only allow repairs by their dealerships.

Well if it's anything like the open protocols of Bacnet then yes; there is only so much openness when it comes to commercial advantage.

Big commercial opportunity for AIXI workaround tools as electric moves into self drive.

 

[Value Collector]

The Volt is an admission that battery electric only cars still not an ubiquitous solution


.

Except with 500,000 people that have already put deposits down on the Tesla model 3, the All electric vehicles are set to blow the VOLT out of the water.

Even chevy's own All electric Model the "BOLT" is catching up to the "Volt" is sales.

And Volt owners do there best to avoid having to put petrol in the car.

There is a website tracking owners usage in this link, you can see pretty much all of them on the list are over 80% battery operation, and that is with a tiny battery that only does 50 Miles.

Once you remove the Engine and fuel tank and replace it with a larger battery, and have a super charger network like Tesla have built, you can operate in all electric all the time, which is what people want, even volt owners.

https://www.voltstats.net

 

[Tisme]

Except with 500,000 people that have already put deposits down on the Tesla model 3, the All electric vehicles are set to blow the VOLT out of the water.

Be interesting to see what the uptake is and how many give up their place in the queue and ask for their $1000 deposit back

 

[Value Collector]

Electric motors and cars should be pretty cheap in comparison (bar the batteries) you would think?
I wonder if each company will lock down their IP and only allow repairs by their dealerships.

Looks like Tesla wants the Service business to themselves, and is focusing on customer service and ease to lock it in.

 

[SirRumpole]

Power prices: Australia has a gold-plated electricity grid that consumers can't afford

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/australian-gold-plated-power-grid/8721566

 

[qldfrog]

Power prices: Australia has a gold-plated electricity grid that consumers can't afford

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/australian-gold-plated-power-grid/8721566

trouble is this is not new, and we discussed that here and in the AFR for years yet we end up with generators lacking, power outage and nothing being really done to fix this
Be sure that by the time people will start disconnecting from the grid as a result, they will be slammed with extra fees or levies to have the priviledge not to be connected.
Same here in qld after the drought: huge infrastructure put in place, water consumption collapsed and stay low..which should be good?
=> boost connection fees, create "independent" water board with cushy position for your mates, and charge a shed [I have] with 0 water usage ever 250$ a quarter for the priviledge to be connected/or be able to be connected;
Does not even matter if you have a pipe going into your property or not;
Will be same with power:
Australia the land of no rule but the free abuse of power

 

[Value Collector]

Power prices: Australia has a gold-plated electricity grid that consumers can't afford

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/australian-gold-plated-power-grid/8721566

That is one of the down sides of regulation, But at least we have a grid that can handle a lot more capacity than it currently does, so the grids capacity to move energy around is no problem, we just need to sort out the lack of generation in some areas, and storage solutions would be good too.

 

[Value Collector]

huge infrastructure put in place, water consumption collapsed and stay low..which should be good?

It is good, but the costs keeping the system running doesn't halve just because you halve the amount of usage.

 

[Value Collector]

It is good, but the costs keeping the system running doesn't halve just because you halve the amount of usage.

Actually is reminds me of a recent trip to NZ, Scenic helicopter flights in a 4 seater chopper, but were charged as follows.

1 person $1100.............. (total $1100)
2 people $575 / person... (total $1150)
3 people $400 / person... (total $1200)
4 people $315 / person... (total $1260)

So basically he needed around $1000 to cover costs regardless of the number of passengers, and reducing the passenger count didn't reduce the over all costs that much, so it dramatically increases the prices charged to the remaining users.


This is true for any business or infrastructure with high fixed costs.

 

[SirRumpole]

This is true for any business or infrastructure with high fixed costs.

My understanding is that the retailers get a guaranteed return on their investment. What other business gets that guarantee ?

There should be some tradeoff between security of income and the prices they can charge.

 

[Value Collector]

My understanding is that the retailers get a guaranteed return on their investment.

The retailers of what?

 

[SirRumpole]

The retailers of what?

Electricity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/hill-the-great-energy-con-that-is-costing-us-billions/6924272

 

[Value Collector]

Electricity.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/hill-the-great-energy-con-that-is-costing-us-billions/6924272

No, electricity retailers have no guarantee, they can lose money and go bust just like anyone.

Electricity retailers are just the people that send you the bill, there is an ever growing number of them, some disappear new ones pop up.

Some of the big "retailers" also have investments in generation, but not all.

But, Generation, Transmission, Distribution and retailing are all separate businesses, with different players in each one.

The "retailers" are the ones you get the annoying phone calls and door knocking from to try and get you to start receiving their bills in stead of the other guys bills.

 

[SirRumpole]

The "retailers" are the ones you get the annoying phone calls and door knocking from to try and get you to start receiving their bills in stead of the other guys bills.

OK, so it's the distributors, the ones that own the poles and wires that get a guaranteed return. So what other businesses get such a guarantee ? That's what is putting the prices up, lack of competition.

 

[qldfrog]

OK, so it's the distributors, the ones that own the poles and wires that get a guaranteed return. So what other businesses get such a guarantee ? That's what is putting the prices up, lack of competition.

they were garanteed from memory a 8% return, could have been ok at the time but imagine now..rubbing hands

 

[qldfrog]

It is good, but the costs keeping the system running doesn't halve just because you halve the amount of usage.

so having my own business, some fixed costs as you can imagine , why can I not charge the local council for the service I could provide them should they want to ask for it?

 

[Tisme]

OK, so it's the distributors, the ones that own the poles and wires that get a guaranteed return. So what other businesses get such a guarantee ? That's what is putting the prices up, lack of competition.

State sanctioned oligopolies.

Howard did the same and the LNP carry on the same game e.g. propping the likes of Telstra to make sure selling off the farm doesn't reveal the real loss making ventures they would be in the face of real competition and lean management (free of political party cronies).

 

[Value Collector]

OK, so it's the distributors, the ones that own the poles and wires that get a guaranteed return. So what other businesses get such a guarantee ? That's what is putting the prices up, lack of competition.

I wouldn't call it a guaranteed return, they can certainly still go and of business or lose money.

But the regulator sets pricing, they have no control over what prices they charge their customers, they are told what the prices will be.

So it's the regulators job to set prices as low as they can, while still leaving enough on the table for the distributors and transmission owners to earn a reasonable return on their investment, which is generally a much lower rate than most other businesses.

They are given performance standards to meet and other rules also.