The future of energy generation and storage

[farmerge]

Trouble is, Australians just weren't willing to hear the message as to what was coming.

Australia has simply failed to comprehend that mineral resources are finite and once gone, they're gone. For some reason we've an obsession with water and trees, both of which are renewable, forgetting that fossil fuels and metals are the real issues.

Our coal production's peaked too by the way, it's just that most haven't woken up to that yet but it's in decline yes. It's already down more than 10% from the peak.

Now just wait for the real fun to start. When government realises the carbon targets are physically unachievable even if we do use nuclear because electricity isn't the only emissions source, it's not even the majority.

And exporting coal and gas at fire sale prices.

 

[sptrawler]

This article explains what I have been mentioning and if correct will blow our hydrogen super power plan completely out of the water.
As usual we are charging off into the great idea and pizz poor planning brain faft territory yet again.

China to build first-ever thorium molten salt nuclear power station in Gobi Desert

China plans to build the world's first-ever nuclear power station using molten salt as the fuel carrier and coolant, and thorium as a fuel source — revealed in a since-deleted report posted on the Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics website.

www.abc.net.au

According to the report, a prototype TMSR at the same location, which was designed to produce 2 megawatts of thermal energy but no actual electricity, achieved criticality in October last year.

Building on the results of the prototype, the new facility will produce 60MW of heat that will be used to generate 10MW of electricity and hydrogen as part of a larger renewable energy research hub.

The project would "drive the development of a large number of materials and high-end equipment manufacturing technologies", the report said.

Nuclear engineer Tony Irwin, an honorary associate professor at the Australian National University, said the TMSR was an "interesting technology that's got a lot of potential".

He pointed out that the higher operating temperature could also be used to supply process heat for industrial applications.

"[Chinese researchers] tend to go in very conservative steps," he said. "Start off slowly and demonstrate and then carry on for the next one."

 

[qldfrog]

This article explains what I have been mentioning and if correct will blow our hydrogen super power plan completely out of the water.
As usual we are charging off into the great idea and pizz poor planning brain faft territory yet again.

China to build first-ever thorium molten salt nuclear power station in Gobi Desert

China plans to build the world's first-ever nuclear power station using molten salt as the fuel carrier and coolant, and thorium as a fuel source — revealed in a since-deleted report posted on the Shanghai Institute of Applied Physics website.

www.abc.net.au

According to the report, a prototype TMSR at the same location, which was designed to produce 2 megawatts of thermal energy but no actual electricity, achieved criticality in October last year.

Building on the results of the prototype, the new facility will produce 60MW of heat that will be used to generate 10MW of electricity and hydrogen as part of a larger renewable energy research hub.

The project would "drive the development of a large number of materials and high-end equipment manufacturing technologies", the report said.

Nuclear engineer Tony Irwin, an honorary associate professor at the Australian National University, said the TMSR was an "interesting technology that's got a lot of potential".

He pointed out that the higher operating temperature could also be used to supply process heat for industrial applications.

"[Chinese researchers] tend to go in very conservative steps," he said. "Start off slowly and demonstrate and then carry on for the next one."

Every time we discussed nuclear energy, i mentioned i was not a fan due to the fact it is not economical if taking into accounts the whole dismantling process.
but thorium makes sense.
I mentioned India then but China will make it better quicker
That or fusion reactors..but not uranium fission...

 

[SirRumpole]

Every time we discussed nuclear energy, i mentioned i was not a fan due to the fact it is not economical if taking into accounts the whole dismantling process.
but thorium makes sense.
I mentioned India then but China will make it better quicker
That or fusion reactors..but not uranium fission...

There is probably a reason it's out in the Gobi desert...

If China can get it to work, good luck to them, but should we buy one?

It would be like buying from GWM, cheap but very risky.

 

[qldfrog]

There is probably a reason it's out in the Gobi desert...

If China can get it to work, good luck to them, but should we buy one?

It would be like buying from GWM, cheap but very risky.

They do it on the desert because normal nuclear plants need water..as do coal gas water which does not exist there
So if you have to put it somewhere, go where it is at a strategic advantage..plus thorium can not explode or leak nasty radiation
No real risk
But note how negative the ABC is mixing molden salt to thorium to inflate perceived risks
Imagine if the populace realise there are alternatives to solar and windmills..

 

[sptrawler]

Another major hydrogen project on the drawing board.

South Korea deal advances works on world's biggest renewable hydrogen hub in W.A. | RenewEconomy

reneweconomy-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

Intercontinental Energy

South Korea’s biggest utility has signed a deal to help fund the early works of what could be the world’s biggest renewable hydrogen hub, a potential 50 gigawatt (GW) wind and solar facility in the south east corner of Western Australia

The circa $100 billion project is owned by Indigenous company Mirning Green Energy with 10 per cent, as the 15,000 square kilometre area is on Mirning lands, InterContinental Energy with 46 per cent and CWP Global with 44 per cent.

Construction is anticipated to take about 15 years to complete but first production in the 2030s, if the project makes it past the last hurdle of a final investment decision in 2029

 

[sptrawler]

US moves forward with reactivation of decades-old nuclear power station in bid to meet surging energy demand: 'Safety standards have evolved enormously'

The 53-year-old Palisades nuclear power plant in Michigan is undergoing upgrades and set to reopen.

www.thecooldown.com

 

[SirRumpole]

Virtual power plants are coming , if not already here.

South Australia gets a mention.

 

[qldfrog]

Virtual power plants are coming , if not already here.

South Australia gets a mention.

Virtual power points for virtual plants and virtual wealth and economy..sadly the losses are real, poor buggers with batteries pay assets, maintenance and are charged for the privilege...

 

[mullokintyre]

In somewhat of a surprise, Victoria has done an about face on gas closure, and now will allow those with existing gas appliances after
excising home gas cookers form its zero net roadmap.
From Evil Murdoch press

 

[sptrawler]

In somewhat of a surprise, Victoria has done an about face on gas closure, and now will allow those with existing gas appliances after
excising home gas cookers form its zero net roadmap.
From Evil Murdoch press

View attachment 183953

Yes another example of reality catching up with ideology.
The problem is in 10 years reality will well and truly have overtaken ideology, on our current path. Lol

 

[sptrawler]

Italy to reverse its ban on nuclear energy.

Italy Is in Early Talks for Creation of Nuclear-Power Company

(Bloomberg) -- Italy is looking to create a new company to build small nuclear reactors, and officials are in preliminary talks with Ansaldo Nucleare SpA, Enel SpA, and Newcleo Ltd. to develop the plan, according to people familiar with the matter.Most Read from BloombergHow Americans Voted...

finance.yahoo.com

Italy banned the production and use of nuclear energy following referendums in 1987 and 2011.

The government is also working on a legislative measure that aims to reintroduce the use of nuclear energy with the latest available technologies later this year, Energy Minister Gilberto Pichetto Fratin said on Saturday.

 

[sptrawler]

Not power generation related, but another energy intensive process under strain and no doubt the ruler will be out to measure the financial viability.
I think the penny is dropping everywhere, doing business where energy is required, is going to be a big problem in Australia.
Yet another case in the conga line of companies getting nervous.

GFG Alliance reduces maintenance at Whyalla Steelworks to save on costs as alarm raised over safety concerns at aging plant - ABC News

amp-abc-net-au.cdn.ampproject.org

Local MP Eddie Hughes said workers had raised with him their concerns about safety and "the state of the plant".

"It's no secret, anybody that works there knows that the level of maintenance has not been commensurate with the nature of the plant and the age of the plant," he said.

"There has been very limited preventative maintenance over an extended period of time, indeed some of this goes back as far as Arrium days and even further.

"With an aging plant, that is a real concern," Mr Hughes said.

The contractor said he was speaking out now because "there's nothing else they can hang over our heads because the work has stopped".

He is concerned GFG Alliance no longer intends to make steel in Whyalla and will soon restructure its operating model.

"Whatever their long-term intent is, it's certainly not to be producing steel here because there's no way they can keep up with the plant with the people they've got," he said.

"The word is they're going to ship in billet [a semi-finished steel product] from overseas and do product through their roll mill, so they're only going to keep the roll mill open to produce the billets into product."

GFG Alliance said it "has invested over $1 billion in Whyalla's operations since 2017 and remains committed to its green iron and steel investment plans".

 

[SirRumpole]

Not power generation related, but another energy intensive process under strain and no doubt the ruler will be out to measure the financial viability.
I think the penny is dropping everywhere, doing business where energy is required, is going to be a big problem in Australia.
Yet another case in the conga line of companies getting nervous.

GFG Alliance reduces maintenance at Whyalla Steelworks to save on costs as alarm raised over safety concerns at aging plant - ABC News

amp-abc-net-au.cdn.ampproject.org

Local MP Eddie Hughes said workers had raised with him their concerns about safety and "the state of the plant".

"It's no secret, anybody that works there knows that the level of maintenance has not been commensurate with the nature of the plant and the age of the plant," he said.

"There has been very limited preventative maintenance over an extended period of time, indeed some of this goes back as far as Arrium days and even further.

"With an aging plant, that is a real concern," Mr Hughes said.

The contractor said he was speaking out now because "there's nothing else they can hang over our heads because the work has stopped".

He is concerned GFG Alliance no longer intends to make steel in Whyalla and will soon restructure its operating model.

"Whatever their long-term intent is, it's certainly not to be producing steel here because there's no way they can keep up with the plant with the people they've got," he said.

"The word is they're going to ship in billet [a semi-finished steel product] from overseas and do product through their roll mill, so they're only going to keep the roll mill open to produce the billets into product."

GFG Alliance said it "has invested over $1 billion in Whyalla's operations since 2017 and remains committed to its green iron and steel investment plans".

That's what happens when national interests are sold out to commercial interests.

 

[sptrawler]

That's what happens when national interests are sold out to commercial interests.

A lot of energy intensive processing will struggle to be viable in Australia, a lot of processes will be difficult to convert from fossil fueled to electric, add to that their small capacity and it just wont add up.

Cheaper to import ignots in the required quantity and spec and just heat and roll them here.

Iron and steel has always been private sector territory, but making low emission blast furnaces for pig iron will cost a lot and I don't think will ever happen in Australia.

Electric arc steel furnaces have been in use for a long time.
Interesting times ahead.

 

[SirRumpole]

Cheaper to import ignots in the required quantity and spec and just heat and roll them here.

There lies the issue, cost over strategic considerations.

How can we be sure our supply lines will always be open with the elephant of the world taking over whatever it can because it can?

IMV we are sleepwalking into an uncertain future where costs are the only things that matter. Sure, they matter but we can't be blind to what is happening on the global scale.

 

[qldfrog]

A lot of energy intensive processing will struggle to be viable in Australia, a lot of processes will be difficult to convert from fossil fueled to electric, add to that their small capacity and it just wont add up.

Cheaper to import ignots in the required quantity and spec and just heat and roll them here.

Iron and steel has always been private sector territory, but making low emission blast furnaces for pig iron will cost a lot and I don't think will ever happen in Australia.

Electric arc steel furnaces have been in use for a long time.
Interesting times ahead.

But coking coke is used to bring carbon in
And we will need carbon for steel green or not...
So what, produce and transport co2 to the green furnace?
But why bother with knowledge when a net zero slogan can do for our decision makers with background in politics or HR IR.
At least, 50y ago, the left used to know a bit about industry

 

[sptrawler]

There lies the issue, cost over strategic considerations.

How can we be sure our supply lines will always be open with the elephant of the world taking over whatever it can because it can?

IMV we are sleepwalking into an uncertain future where costs are the only things that matter. Sure, they matter but we can't be blind to what is happening on the global scale.

That's what the politicians appear to be neglecting, Chinese batteries underpinning our electrical grid, no serious manufacturing ability to supply arms and munitions to the armed forces if there is a conflict, yet plenty of money to buy a few nuclear subs.
Doesn't seem to add up to a cohesive plan IMO.
Somehow we have to get energy prices down and at the same time have enough of it to allow for growth, but that doesn't look likely in the near future.

 

[Smurf1976]

Doesn't seem to add up to a cohesive plan IMO.

This is the key bit, it needs to fit together as an overall approach.

It's not sufficient to just say oh look, we've done x which incidentally costs a fortune or which doesn't address the problems of macroeconomics, manufacturing and so on. It all needs to fit together.

There is of course nothing new about that. It's what gave rise to hydro development in Tasmania - it's not a coincidence that the Hydro itself as an organisation was established just 4 days before WW1 officially commenced, government knew trouble was coming.

Likewise not a coincidence that Victoria set up the SECV just a month after the end of the war and in 1920 put Sir John Monash in charge of it.

Both were electricity authorities with an objective far exceeding that of simply supplying electricity to consumers. Both were ultimately about industrialisation against a backdrop of national security.

Likewise no coincidence that SA jumped on board with that approach in 1946, the Snowy scheme was approved in 1949 and NSW passed legislation to set up a state- wide electricity authority in 1950. The post-WW2 desire for industrialisation, and fear of another war, prompted action.

The Australian electricity utilities always were always substantially about industrialisation and macroeconomics with a useful sideline of supplying electricity to the public.

My guess is we're going to see a "history doesn't repeat but it sure does rhyme" sort of situation. A crisis will force action once again.

In the meantime, some entertainment. First time I've ever seen a cat, yes a cat, disconnect power when something's gone badly wrong. It's electrical related so near enough to on topic?

 

[Smurf1976]

Now we're cooking with gas....

Just don't think about where it came from.