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Some 2 years ago I was pessimistic about Snowy 2.0 and copped lots of criticisms.AEMO data current as of October 2021 shows two generating units in Snowy 2.0 operating for the 2025-26 summer season, 4 operating for the 2026 winter season and 6 operating for the 2026-27 summer. There are 6 generating units being installed in the power station in total.
It sounds as though the Government is still committed to the Snowy project, despite the cost and time blow-outs. The major difference with the project now is, it has gone from a fixed cost basis, to a cost plus contract, which basically means the Govt is committed to build it whatever the cost basis.Some 2 years ago I was pessimistic about Snowy 2.0 and copped lots of criticisms.
So as most here now know:
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Snowy 2.0 lacks transparency to this day, has experienced massive delays and cost blowouts, and will not be in place when it's first needed - probably this summer based on climate forecasts - if it's needed at all.
On the other hand we now see Arena funding BESS projects with a value of $2.7 billion and a capacity of 2.0 GW / 4.2 GWh to plug into the National Electricity Market. While 2GW is the same generation output of Snowy 2.0 the projects won't have the ability to support long-duration needs. However, we really don't know how much of a duration will be needed to stop-gap intermittency as more and more wind and solar is being added to the grid, as well as home battery storage.
The projects ARENA is supporting include:
All the above will be fully operational by 2025 at latest.
- AGL: a new 250 MW / 500 MWh battery in Liddell, NSW.
- FRV: a new 250 MW / 550 MWh battery in Gnarwarre, VIC.
- Neoen: retrofitting the 300 MW / 450 MWh Victorian Big Battery in Moorabool, VIC to enable grid-forming capability.
- Neoen: a new 200 MW / 400 MWh battery in Hopeland, QLD.
- Neoen: a new 200 MW / 400 MWh battery in Blyth, SA.
- Origin: a new 300 MW / 900 MWh battery in Mortlake, VIC
- Risen: a new 200 MW / 400 MWh battery in Bungama, SA.
- TagEnergy: a new 300 MW / 600 MWh battery in Mount Fox QLD.
On the home battery storage front we saw installations linked to solar systems in 2022 grow by 55% (47,100 residential energy storage systems) compared to 2021. The cumulative total number of Australian homes and businesses with solar and batteries hit 180,000 almost a year ago, so we know it's significantly more today as the economics of ownership have since improved. The interesting takeaway from this is that via VPP/DER it would be enough to prevent curtailment in many times that number of households. Should we be asking why we don't have VPP/DER penetration that would allow this, especially as only a small fraction of the over 3.5 million households with rooftop solar have battery storage?
The transition to renewables is inevitable, while Snowy 2.0 is looking more and more like a white elephant that needs putting down. The probable $10B in ongoing future expenditure to get Snowy 2.0 operational for summers 6 years out (will they get that right?) could be better spent.
(I never covered V2L or V2G possibilities which could be mandated for all imported electric vehicles, and which would render Snowy 2.0 an unmitigated economic disaster.)
AEMO has crunched the numbers and so have various others independently (energy companies, universities, random individuals).we really don't know how much of a duration will be needed to stop-gap intermittency
With the Greens having the balance of power in the Senate, it will be lights out for sure.Beyond that, the rest of the politics is more dramatic...
The Greens as with all sides of politics are somewhat backed into a corner over all this.With the Greens having the balance of power in the Senate, it will be lights out for sure.
Every post from @Smurf1976 is a wealth of information and commonsense.@Smurf19 do you realise how many times you've explained this and do you also realise the same questions that you have answered keep getting asked?
It tells you some you something, either people don't believe you, or they feel they have the answers.
Time will tell, but unlike climate change, electrical distribution and generation is a very precise science, as the politicians will find out IMO.
Duration = period of time.AEMO has crunched the numbers and so have various others independently (energy companies, universities, random individuals).
What is at issue with ongoing transition is the potential for VRE droughts and the concomitant need for compensatory energy/electricity. In other words, what is the probability distribution of total energy provided over any given interval - across an hour, a day, or a week - in a developing VRE system such that we have enough firming to mitigate such events.There are similarities in all of them but using AEMO's as the most credible, they came up with a bit under double Snowy 2.0's energy storage capacity being required plus a permanent 10GW fleet of gas turbines and enough fuel to run them without constraints plus all existing on river hydro with the ability to operate it unconstrained when required.
W.A will be a real world test bed for battery storage as it will be the major source of our storage.Duration = period of time.
What is at issue with ongoing transition is the potential for VRE droughts and the concomitant need for compensatory energy/electricity. In other words, what is the probability distribution of total energy provided over any given interval - across an hour, a day, or a week - in a developing VRE system such that we have enough firming to mitigate such events.
There are quite a few academic papers on VRE droughts and compensatory scenarios, but none can or does cater for sequential planning of future energy needs by way of holistic approaches to planning and implementation. Instead they tend to assume a 100% VRE without integrating the many present and future storage and delivery options. AEMO's 2023 Inputs, Assumptions and Scenarios Report provides a number of scenarios that could be in play by 2040 and the most optimistic suggests clean energy resources plus hydrogen generation could counter any VRE drought.
Snowy 2.0 is puny compared to battery energy potential of the 70% electrical vehicle fleet in AEMO's 2040 Green Energy Export Scenario, and that does not include the additional capacity of home storage batteries.
My point is that there is an incremental increase in storage potential which is occurring with minimal government intervention, so ramping this up to incorporate mechanisms that release that potential energy into the grid seems an obvious policy step.
That said, our transmission infrastructure needs massive revamping to not only accommodate the technical issues relating to transition but also their integrated distribution from source (ie. type and geography).
A scorching upcoming summer in south eastern Australia might be the first pressure test of the NEM since curtailments a number of years back. If so it will give AEMO and policy makers the real world ammunition they need to determine which paths need to be immediately followed in our various generation regions.
With electricity it has to have multiple options and it will be interesting to see what the grid landscape looks like in 2040, my guess,H2, batteries, hydro and smr's installed alongside massive wind/solar farms.
A key issue here is the gap between academic / engineering approaches versus what works in the financial / business world versus what can be achieved politically.My point is that there is an incremental increase in storage potential which is occurring with minimal government intervention, so ramping this up to incorporate mechanisms that release that potential energy into the grid seems an obvious policy step.
Unlikely an issue for batteries as the need for AEMO intervention would be seldom and short.I personally am not completely sold on V2G as a solution, firstly will it have any affect on the manufacturers warranty and the life and durability of the battery,
I see the issue as one where a small part of the EV owning public are incentivised to participate. Let's say 500k people in total - 200k in each of Mel/Syd and 100k in Bris (about one in twenty cars in these cities) - add 11kW/vehicle. That's an instantaneous 5.75GW output potential nicely spread around the NEM.secondly will most people sign up for it. In my situation, I would prefer V2L as it then is my business how much and how often I use the vehicle battery to mitigate my domestic usage.
As your sentences note, each of those technologies were part of an ongoing transition. So what's the problem if batteries are stepping stone to a better solution? What we know for certain is that there will be more potential EV battery storage available, and that battery costs are decreasing, especially in the home storage market.EV's are a bit like the old cassette player, then the cd player, then the dvd player, they are new technology that can and probably will be superceded.
I'm not convinced batteries are here to stay, so to design your electricity network around them as the storage source, I think is premature.
As this thread has pointed out ad nauseum, the lack of an actual plan to move seamlessly to renewables, as distinct from a moving feast of "scenarios" has hampered the NEM's functional transition.
A recent submission by IEEFA aims to map out a path that's easy to understand and follow:
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Why it's important to act asap becomes clear when just a few things are understood.
For example, while the electrification of just 20% of Australia's car fleet is roughly equal to the total storage capacity of Snowy 2.0 it might come as a surprise that only South Australia has laws that allow for V2G in practice.
Next, without an appropriate VPP/DER infrastructure there is no flexibility in demand response. For example, tapping into electrical hot water systems and pool pumps (and even EV charging) to prevent solar pv curtailment, rather than the typical approach today whereby consumers take advantage of cheaper nighttime tariffs, isn't just grid smart but also stands to significantly reduce household electricity costs.
What is clear is that government and/or commercial sector investment in new generation capacity can be reduced to a comparative pittance because ordinary citizens are instead progressively building it into their households via rooftop solar and home battery and BEV ownership. Where investment needs to occur is in the physical (mostly technical) infrastructure to make it work in a way that fairly compensates all parties for their respective ebbs and flows.
Financially speaking, diverting (via deferral) funds from building a single nuclear sub under the pompous AUKUS project to grid stabilisation gives us the more urgent energy security we need. But Albo gets more media brownie points from brown nosing than green keeping.
Meanwhile the cost of electricity keeps climbing, @SirRumpole do you know what the cost of a unit of electricity is over East? In W.A we are heading toward 30 cents.
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