The future of energy generation and storage

[Knobby22]

As I said a long time ago, the obvious answer for the World to go to clean generation and do it in a sustainable way, would be to supplement renewables with SMR which run flat out 24/7 and either supply the load or generate H2 when the renewables are sufficient.

Well it looks like Europe might be heading that way, the EU is set to grant nuclear energy an exemption under its rules for producing renewable hydrogen.

EU decision to label nuclear ‘green’ is key to energy transition and autonomy

With the recent European Parliament vote to include nuclear in a list of green investments, it is essential for investors to act quickly and support EU nuclear projects to ensure energy security, writes Timur Tillyaev.

www.euractiv.com

Earlier this month, the European Parliament made the historic decision to label investments in nuclear energy as green, marking a major breakthrough for energy transition and security in the EU.

Hungary calls to accept nuclear energy as a source of clean hydrogen - CEENERGYNEWS

While the importance of green hydrogen in sectoral decarbonisation is unquestionable, Hungary calls to acknowledge the potential in hydrogen produced from nuclear energy.

ceenergynews.com

A day after the European Commission adopted its long-awaited hydrogen strategy, Poland also announced to take some important steps regarding its own hydrogen agenda, by signing a letter of intent with the major energy and transport companies on the Polish market. Now Hungary also voiced its opinion on the holy grail of the energy industry.

“Hungary believes that hydrogen is indispensable to achieve climate neutrality by 2050,” stressed Péter Kaderják, Hungarian Minister of State for Energy and Climate Policy during the meeting of EU ministers responsible for research and innovation.

While the importance of green hydrogen in sectoral decarbonisation is unquestionable, Hungary calls to acknowledge the potential in hydrogen produced from nuclear energy.

Good news!

 

[sptrawler]

Good news!

I hope I'm still around when it happens, it wont be any time soon in Australia, but when Europe sets the trend I think a lot of countries will follow the lead

 

[mullokintyre]

I expect we'll see another power station's life extended past the presently announced closure date so as to keep the lights on. It'll just need someone (that is, government) to agree to (1) bail out any financial loss and (2) take the political heat over emissions and "shield" the company from any criticism by directing criticism straight back to the government. Got to walk the tightrope of activist investors and the media you see, something that gets a lot easier if you're doing it under the orders of government.

Second bit is, of course, negotiable if the first bit delivers a big enough profit to the owner. Therein sits the basis for negotiation - politics versus money.

But that said, well there's no denying that the overall trend with all this isn't in the right direction. There's a lot of running around in ever decreasing circles juggling things here and the options are fast running out.

For anyone who'd like to know a bit about the history of tunnel boring machines in Australia, the following explains it well enough. I've no association with the individual who wrote it from their own personal perspective but worth a read for those interested in some background (this long pre-dates the SH2 project):

http://bamfordrocks.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Osaka-paper.pdf

In case anyone's lost as to the reason for mentioning tunnel boring machines, well no doubt that will become apparent.....

Great read that little bamfrocks piece.
I now know a smidgin more about the geology of tunnel boring.
thanks for the link.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

AS usual innovation in battery technology is moving right along. This seems a giant jump in making flow batteries cost effective. The improvement in cost efficiency is dramatic.

Engineers Reveal Flow Battery Cell Breakthrough​

By Brian Westenhaus - Feb 10, 2023, 2:00 PM CST

• Georgia Tech engineers have unveiled a breakthrough flow battery cell configuration that could have huge implications.
• The new development will reduce the size and cost of entire flow batteries.
• This tech is sure to get lots better, and with this research showing a huge improvement, likely another wave of effort could come quickly.

Engineers Reveal Flow Battery Cell Breakthrough | OilPrice.com

Engineers at the Georgia Institute of Technology have created a compact flow battery cell that could revolutionize how homes and buildings are powered

oilprice.com

Great read that Baz, however, i would question one part of it.

Flow batteries offer a solution. Electrolytes flow through electrochemical cells from storage tanks in this rechargeable battery. The existing flow battery technologies cost more than $200/kilowatt hour and are too expensive for practical application,

Having just installed two 10kw/hr RFX flow batteries for a sum of$24,000, a quick calculation has them retailing at closer $1200 per killowat/hr.
The current Tesla Powewall 3 has 13.5 kwhrs and the prices I was given when i started investigating solar systems last year was around $13,000 to $15.,000, which makes them around $1,000 per kilowat hour. Still lower than the Flow battery, but way above the 200 per KWH mark.
Perhaps they missed a decimal point.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

From todays Australian

Origin Energy may delay closing Australia’s largest coal power station, Eraring, in 2025 amid fears of power shortages with the Snowy Hydro 2.0 expansion running more than a year late, Macquarie said.
The power giant accelerated the closure of Eraring in NSW’s Hunter Valley by up to seven years to as early as August 2025.

However, delays in bringing on new capacity have stoked expectations the coal plant will now remain open for several more years to protect Australia’s electricity system.

Eraring “is a major issue for NSW, given the delays at Snowy Hydro 2.0. It may be unpalatable, but Eraring may play an important capacity role,” Macquarie analysts said.

The NSW government may ultimately need to step in and provide financial support, according to the broker.

Origin “can benefit from any short-term extension of Eraring, as the government will need to help cover the fixed costs associated with running. A decision will need to be made this year.”

Fears has been growing that the removal of Eraring, which accounts for 20 per cent of the state’s electricity needs, may exacerbate a volatile energy transition and high wholesale power prices if replacement generation has not been installed in time.

The NSW government said it was concerned about the Snowy expansion falling behind schedule, while pointing to plans for its 700 megawatt Waratah Super Battery which will be installed by 2025. It will also launch a competitive tender for an additional 380MW of back-up supply while Origin also plans its own 700MW battery on the Eraring site.

“It’s disappointing that the Commonwealth’s Snowy 2.0 continues to fall behind schedule. The NSW government’s nation-leading renewable energy policy provides a comprehensive approach to building new infrastructure to replace ageing power stations,” a spokeswoman for Energy Minister Matt Kean said.

Just on the snowy 2.0 problems, it seems that the rather big nd expensive tunnel boring machine did not really progress very far.
from ABC News

One of the three tunnel-boring machines working on Australia's biggest renewable energy project, Snowy 2.0, is stuck.

Tunnel-Boring Machine (TBM) Florence hit soft ground in Kosciuszko National Park in New South Wales in December and ground to a halt.

The incident caused a hole to appear above the machine, measuring approximately 10 metres across and 4 metres deep.

In December, Snowy Hydro announced it was monitoring a "surface depression" above the TBM.

Cooma local Peter Anderson has long been concerned about the environmental impacts of Snowy 2.0 and decided to go in search of the hole.

"It was a bit like trying to find a needle in a haystack, so I started a fair way out and followed the path of the tunnel," Mr Anderson said.

TBM Florence was commissioned in March last year to drill about 15 kilometres through the mountains. At the time, Snowy Hydro said it could travel 30 to 50 metres a day.

"Technically, [TBM Florence] should be 9 kilometres in but I thought I'd start about 3 kilometres out and start walking my way back in," Mr Anderson said.

"Over four days of searching, searching, searching [for the hole], I finally found it, and where it was, was a great shock to me."

TBM roughly 150m into 15km tunnel​

Snowy Hydro did not confirm how far the hole is from the tunnel entrance, but satellite data suggests it is roughly 150 metres from the entrance.

In December, Snowy Hydro said TBM Florence was right underneath the hole.

A satellite picture shows the hole barely moved from the starting point.

From what I have read, these machines cannot reverse, as the engineers shoot concrete on the walls behind them to provide stability, so the machines are too wide t reverse. They either get deconstructed and taken out piece by piece, or end up entoombed forever.

Mick

 

[sptrawler]

Something that @SirRumpole will be interested in, the BP fuel refinery at Kwinana is to be repurposed into a biofuel manufacturing facility.
I thought it may be the site for a battery manufacturing plant, due to its proximity to battery metal production facilities, but apparently not.
Anyway as long as it is made into something useful, productive and employs people, it's all good.

bp plans for biorefinery at Kwinana energy hub reach new milestone | News and insights | Home

bp’s Kwinana refinery is spearheading the company’s expansion of its biofuels business, as West Australian Deputy Premier, the Hon Roger Cook, marks the start of its transition into one of the region’s largest sustainable fuel hubs.

www.bp.com

Kwinana is one of five biofuel projects that bp has planned globally. It is expected that these projects will produce around 50 thousand barrels of sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) and HVO (Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil, also known as renewable diesel) per day by 2030.

The Kwinana Renewable Fuels project is part of the global multi-billion dollar investment by bp and will see existing refining infrastructure repurposed to produce drop-in fuel products that have the ability over time to support the decarbonisation of aviation and heavy industry, subject to regulatory and State government approvals.

The biorefinery is planned to produce SAF and biodiesel from bio feedstocks by 2026. It will also integrate with the site’s existing import terminal operations and plans for green hydrogen production, which is currently being assessed in a feasibility study.

Frédéric Baudry, president, bp Australia and SVP fuels & low carbon solutions, Asia Pacific said: “Kwinana illustrates the power of the Australian economy and its ability to reinvent itself for the energy transition. This project is the first of its kind globally for bp and a first for Australia. It recognises the importance of our Kwinana site and Western Australia in the energy transition, so we’re thrilled to say bp is progressing with engineering plans for Kwinana.”

“bp has established, global biogas and biofuel businesses that are positioned in an increasingly supportive environment of rapidly growing demand.”

“We plan to integrate the sustainable aviation fuel and renewable diesel with our current terminal operations, and our future potential green hydrogen project - H2Kwinana.”

As the world seeks lower carbon fuels, bp sees clear opportunities to leverage its portfolio of assets and customer base – with bioenergy one of bp’s transition growth engines. This includes biofuels, sustainable aviation fuel, and biogas.

 

[Smurf1976]

From todays Australian

Been waiting for the media to say that.

In short there's a few options but realistically the common element is they involve retaining part or all of Eraring beyond its presently announced closure date. The question being how many units to retain in operation. A "catch" there that due to maintenance requirements, a decision needs to occur within the next ~6 months preferably. Beyond that, it gets harder.

There's also a limit to that. Eraring has, realistically, a decade or so from now left in it with reasonable maintenance so it can't be extended indefinitely. At least not without spending a fortune and effectively rebuilding it. It'll do for a while though.

On a smaller scale, Origin have already moved the closure date of the 180MW Osborne power station in SA (gas-fired) from 31 December 2023 to after the 2026-27 summer.

 

[mullokintyre]

Something that @SirRumpole will be interested in, the BP fuel refinery at Kwinana is to be repurposed into a biofuel manufacturing facility.
I thought it may be the site for a battery manufacturing plant, due to its proximity to battery metal production facilities, but apparently not.
Anyway as long as it is made into something useful, productive and employs people, it's all good.

bp plans for biorefinery at Kwinana energy hub reach new milestone | News and insights | Home

bp’s Kwinana refinery is spearheading the company’s expansion of its biofuels business, as West Australian Deputy Premier, the Hon Roger Cook, marks the start of its transition into one of the region’s largest sustainable fuel hubs.

www.bp.com

Kwinana is one of five biofuel projects that bp has planned globally. It is expected that these projects will produce around 50 thousand barrels of sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) and HVO (Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil, also known as renewable diesel) per day by 2030.

The Kwinana Renewable Fuels project is part of the global multi-billion dollar investment by bp and will see existing refining infrastructure repurposed to produce drop-in fuel products that have the ability over time to support the decarbonisation of aviation and heavy industry, subject to regulatory and State government approvals.

The biorefinery is planned to produce SAF and biodiesel from bio feedstocks by 2026. It will also integrate with the site’s existing import terminal operations and plans for green hydrogen production, which is currently being assessed in a feasibility study.

Frédéric Baudry, president, bp Australia and SVP fuels & low carbon solutions, Asia Pacific said: “Kwinana illustrates the power of the Australian economy and its ability to reinvent itself for the energy transition. This project is the first of its kind globally for bp and a first for Australia. It recognises the importance of our Kwinana site and Western Australia in the energy transition, so we’re thrilled to say bp is progressing with engineering plans for Kwinana.”

“bp has established, global biogas and biofuel businesses that are positioned in an increasingly supportive environment of rapidly growing demand.”

“We plan to integrate the sustainable aviation fuel and renewable diesel with our current terminal operations, and our future potential green hydrogen project - H2Kwinana.”

As the world seeks lower carbon fuels, bp sees clear opportunities to leverage its portfolio of assets and customer base – with bioenergy one of bp’s transition growth engines. This includes biofuels, sustainable aviation fuel, and biogas.

Makes so much sense. I
n a world where projected food shortages are on the increase, we are going to turn hectares of arable land into feedstock to make biofuels such as diesel and some biogas.
The problem is , burning either of them still produce CO2, which as we all know, is about to increase the temperature of the earth by a world killing 2 degrees centigrade.
Of course the argument is that because they are renewable, i.e. you keep growing feedstock to take the CO2 out of the air , so its carbon nuetral. Well, you could just as easily leave the vegetation that is there and suck Co2 out of the atmosphere while using Nuclear solar, hydrogen to generate the power required, and them be not only neutral, but carbon reductive.
BP is like every other business on the planet, out to make money. They will use whatever means they can to maximise their goals, using ESG as a means to an end, not the end in itself.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Makes so much sense. I
n a world where projected food shortages are on the increase, we are going to turn hectares of arable land into feedstock to make biofuels such as diesel and some biogas.
The problem is , burning either of them still produce CO2, which as we all know, is about to increase the temperature of the earth by a world killing 2 degrees centigrade.
Of course the argument is that because they are renewable, i.e. you keep growing feedstock to take the CO2 out of the air , so its carbon nuetral. Well, you could just as easily leave the vegetation that is there and suck Co2 out of the atmosphere while using Nuclear solar, hydrogen to generate the power required, and them be not only neutral, but carbon reductive.
BP is like every other business on the planet, out to make money. They will use whatever means they can to maximise their goals, using ESG as a means to an end, not the end in itself.
Mick

If they used sugar cane, that would be fine. Other fuels like corn are more problematic, of course food should come first

 

[mullokintyre]

If they used sugar cane, that would be fine. Other fuels like corn are more problematic, of course food should come first

The type of soil, terrain, climate, workforce availability, remoteness, will all determine feedstock can be grown in any area.
Whatever they use, the end result is the same.
You need some of the biodiesel to prepare the ground intitially, then every season.
You use more in planting, more in fertilising, more in weed control, more in harvesting, transporting to processing facility, processing, and redistribution to the markets, some of which may even end up right back on the land where it started.
Its another first problem with first world solutions.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

If they used sugar cane, that would be fine. Other fuels like corn are more problematic, of course food should come first

The type of soil, terrain, climate, workforce availability, remoteness, will all determine feedstock can be grown in any area.
Whatever they use, the end result is the same.
You need some of the biodiesel to prepare the ground intitially, then every season.
You use more in planting, more in fertilising, more in weed control, more in harvesting, transporting to processing facility, processing, and redistribution to the markets, some of which may even end up right back on the land where it started.
Its another first problem with first world solutions.
Mick

It all points back to too many people, wanting too many things and coming up with more and more ways to have them.
What humans want, humans get.

 

[The Triangle]

From todays Australian

Just on the snowy 2.0 problems, it seems that the rather big nd expensive tunnel boring machine did not really progress very far.
from ABC News

A satellite picture shows the hole barely moved from the starting point.
View attachment 153218

From what I have read, these machines cannot reverse, as the engineers shoot concrete on the walls behind them to provide stability, so the machines are too wide t reverse. They either get deconstructed and taken out piece by piece, or end up entoombed forever.

Mick

Questioning from a senator who happens to be an ex-coal-mining engineer and inspector... Don't think he's impressed with the snowy leadership.

Starting to look like this is going to topple the Sydney Opera house for biggest blowout in history. Media have largely glossed over one of the main contractors going bust.

And people are worried about Philip Lowe... Should be sacking snowy team and everyone associated with the project. Better start stocking up the garage with wood for the coming years because at this rate all we're going to have is intermittent solar and wind.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes @The Triangle signing up Government contracts, must entail looking up the Govt Department, which is listed under 'dial a dope'.
I was reading an article the other day, they reckon the cost to do up the Gabba for the olympics has already doubled and they haven't even started, add to that we are ten years out from the games.
Christ knows what it will cost, to put bums on nicer seats.
With regard power generation, it may end up cheaper to run and employ less people, but it ain't going to be cheap for the taxpayer, you can take that to the bank. ?

 

[sptrawler]

This is another problem that is only going to get bigger for the Government and the renewable lobby.
2030 is fast approaching and options are getting more difficult, I certainly hope I'm wrong, but I feel a brain fart coming on, for Albo.
IMO he needs to get his dancing shoes on, take stock and make some adjustments.
Snowy 2.0, extending the closure of coal power stations, reconfiguring the transmission and distribution network, many GW's of batteries, 7.8 years doesn't sound like a long time to me, in the scheme of things. Hopefully I'm wrong.

One in five developments threatening koala habitat are renewable energy projects

Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek faces hard decisions as the government balances competing environmental aims of lowering carbon emissions and avoiding extinctions.

www.smh.com.au

More than two dozen renewable energy projects lodged with the Commonwealth for assessment could damage precious koala habitat, posing a delicate environmental conundrum for the Albanese government.

The environment department is assessing 140 developments that could threaten koala habitat, 29 of which are renewable energy projects alongside 50 coal and gas projects and 37 property developments.
A massive expansion of renewable energy is critical to the Albanese government meeting its upgraded climate target, while Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek has vowed to protect endangered koala populations.

 

[Smurf1976]

The problem is , burning either of them still produce CO2, which as we all know, is about to increase the temperature of the earth by a world killing 2 degrees centigrade.
Of course the argument is that because they are renewable, i.e. you keep growing feedstock to take the CO2 out of the air , so its carbon nuetral.

The difference is that leaving it there yields no energy whereas producing biofuels directly replaces fossil fuel for the end user thus avoiding emissions from its combustion.

That's not to say there aren't arguments for and against but the carbon cycle is a real thing, biofuel does have some advantages there.

 

[sptrawler]

Well it isn't as though @Smurf1976 hasn't been going on about for a few years, obviously some politicians know better, or just wont listen. The latter is my guess.
It wasn't that long ago that 'experts' were saying Kurri Kurri wasn't required and Snowy 2.0 was a waste of money, well maybe not.

East coast power shortages on the cards without new projects: AEMO

States on the eastern seaboard are at risk of power shortages from 2027 as the closures of coal-fired power plants collide with delays in building new projects.

www.smh.com.au

Homes and businesses in every state on Australia’s eastern seaboard are at risk of electricity shortages from 2027 as looming closures of several coal-fired power stations collide with delays in building crucial new gas and clean energy projects to replace them.

In a new report to be released on Tuesday, the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) warns “material changes” to its expectations of available power supplies over coming years in Victoria, South Australia, NSW and Queensland have reinforced the urgent need for new generation plants and other key infrastructure to be approved and rolled out.

 

[Smurf1976]

Well it isn't as though @Smurf1976 hasn't been going on about for a few years, obviously some politicians know better, or just wont listen. The latter is my guess.

The trouble with politicians is in the name - politics.

Looking at specific plant closures in the reasonably near future:

Liddell (NSW) was 4 x 500 MW when built so 2000 MW total. At present one unit is permanently shut and has been since last year whilst the other three are "officially" de-rated to 420 MW each. Informally however they're de-rated further with two running at 350MW and one at 380MW so 1080MW for the station.

Official closure date for the lot is 1st April 2023 but at this stage it's looking like a small delay and in practice the closures being on the 19th, 25th and 29th of April 2023. So delaying 2.5 - 4 weeks from the previous plan.

For the Eraring station, which is 4 x 720 MW so 2880 MW plus a separate 40 MW gas turbine, the present closure date is set at midnight 18th August 2025 for the 720 MW units. The gas turbine isn't officially part of that plan but most are assuming it also closes in practice at the same time (though that's not certain given the site itself is to remain active as a battery location).

Then there's Torrens Island B (4 x 200MW) in SA planned to shut in 2026 and not long after that Osborne (180MW) also closing.

Then there's Yallourn (1480MW, Vic) and Callide B (700MW, Qld) planned to shut in 2028 and Vales Point B (1320MW, NSW) in 2029.

Torrens Island and Osborne are both gas, others mentioned are all coal.

 

[sptrawler]

The trouble with politicians is in the name - politics.

Looking at specific plant closures in the reasonably near future:

Liddell (NSW) was 4 x 500 MW when built so 2000 MW total. At present one unit is permanently shut and has been since last year whilst the other three are "officially" de-rated to 420 MW each. Informally however they're de-rated further with two running at 350MW and one at 380MW so 1080MW for the station.

Official closure date for the lot is 1st April 2023 but at this stage it's looking like a small delay and in practice the closures being on the 19th, 25th and 29th of April 2023. So delaying 2.5 - 4 weeks from the previous plan.

For the Eraring station, which is 4 x 720 MW so 2880 MW plus a separate 40 MW gas turbine, the present closure date is set at midnight 18th August 2025 for the 720 MW units. The gas turbine isn't officially part of that plan but most are assuming it also closes in practice at the same time (though that's not certain given the site itself is to remain active as a battery location).

Then there's Torrens Island B (4 x 200MW) in SA planned to shut in 2026 and not long after that Osborne (180MW) also closing.

Then there's Yallourn (1480MW, Vic) and Callide B (700MW, Qld) planned to shut in 2028 and Vales Point B (1320MW, NSW) in 2029.

Torrens Island and Osborne are both gas, others mentioned are all coal.

So what happens, the Govt sets it all in stone with a deadline to reach an ambitious reduction in emissions, then puts financial constraints on companies supplying fuel.
One hopes somewhere in this mess, there is a plan, not just a wish and a prayer, because an ambitious vote catcher can quickly become a huge albatross.

 

[Smurf1976]

One hopes somewhere in this mess, there is a plan

See here



Seriously, as I've mentioned previously the technical people have mostly conceded defeat and left the discussion. Just pay attention to the media and you'll see that true - what's left are politicians, lobbyists and the odd economic or similar academic but the actual engineers and "hands on" workers have mostly walked away shaking their heads.

Only when there's a major failure will the politicians, lobby groups and so on realised just how badly it's all been messed up.

 

[Smurf1976]

One issue is gas supply. No point building gas power stations if you don't have gas to run them with.

On that one Viva Energy is now having doubts about its planned LNG import terminal in Victoria. Noting there that the other similar projects are also under a cloud of uncertainty since nobody wants to import LNG and sell the gas at a loss due to the price cap.

Price caps cloud Viva Energy’s Geelong gas terminal plans

Viva Energy needs clarity about the extent of the government’s new pricing rules before it can make a final call on Victoria’s first LNG import terminal.

www.smh.com.au

Fuel supplier Viva Energy says it needs clarity about the extent of the Albanese government’s long-term energy market intervention before it can make a final call on building Victoria’s first shipping terminal capable of importing liquefied gas in Corio Bay.