- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,127
- Reactions
- 16,982
The future of energy generation and storage
- Thread starter Value Collector
- Start date
Knobby22
Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast
- Joined
- 13 October 2004
- Posts
- 9,629
- Reactions
- 6,434
New gas develpment was approved yesterday.One issue is gas supply. No point building gas power stations if you don't have gas to run them with.
On that one Viva Energy is now having doubts about its planned LNG import terminal in Victoria. Noting there that the other similar projects are also under a cloud of uncertainty since nobody wants to import LNG and sell the gas at a loss due to the price cap.
Price caps cloud Viva Energy’s Geelong gas terminal plans
Viva Energy needs clarity about the extent of the government’s new pricing rules before it can make a final call on Victoria’s first LNG import terminal.www.smh.com.au
Santos' wins fracking approval for Towrie gas development from Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek - Michael West
Tanya Plibersek has quietly approved another Santos fracking project to go ahead in Queensland’s Surat Basin.
michaelwest.com.au
Last edited:
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
I wonder if the govt will apply a reservation policy to new wells ?New gas develpment was approved yesterday.
Santos' wins fracking approval for Towrie gas development from Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek - Michael West
Tanya Plibersek has quietly approved another Santos fracking project to go ahead in Queensland’s Surat Basin.
This would be a good time to do it imho.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
See here
Seriously, as I've mentioned previously the technical people have mostly conceded defeat and left the discussion. Just pay attention to the media and you'll see that true - what's left are politicians, lobbyists and the odd economic or similar academic but the actual engineers and "hands on" workers have mostly walked away shaking their heads.
Only when there's a major failure will the politicians, lobby groups and so on realised just how badly it's all been messed up.
That was a brilliant skit by Clarke and Dawe, nailed it, thanks smurf
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
The Greens wont like that and next is the protesters and the media.New gas develpment was approved yesterday.
Santos' wins fracking approval for Towrie gas development from Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek - Michael West
Tanya Plibersek has quietly approved another Santos fracking project to go ahead in Queensland’s Surat Basin.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
Plans to charge consumers for excess solar power.
IMHO it's up to the power companies to build sufficient storage to handle any power graciously gifted to them by consumers at whatever time of the day they get it, instead of lumping more costs on people who paid good money to increase generation.
It's about timer some of these companies got their a$$es kicked because they are not providing good value for their products.
thenewdaily.com.au
"
A controversial plan to charge families with solar panels for power they feed back into the grid has drawn new criticism from advocates who say distributors have failed to justify the moves.
Energy distributors including Ausgrid have this week submitted plans to regulators that will see households charged between 0.94 cents per kilowatt hour (c/Kwh) to 3.6 c/Kwh for exported energy, above set limits.
It comes after a 2021 ruling from the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) that allows for such charges to reduce congestion across the power grid in the middle of the day.
But consumer group Solar Citizens says the plan amounts to a “sun tax” on families and will drive up bills at a time when the cost of living crisis is squeezing households nationwide.
The group fears the millions of Australian households who own solar panels will be punished because they generate most of their energy during the day and consume most of it at night.
Stephanie Gray, deputy director of the advocacy body, said the new plans submitted by distributors to the Australian Energy Regulator fail to prove that solar exports will congest their networks.
Under the rules distributors are required to show that solar systems will burden the grid during the day, with the AER previously saying they would not approve tariffs unless this is proved.
“If you look at Ausgrid’s proposal, they use a sample case of looking at all these different places around the network,” Ms Gray said.
“They’re saying that by 2029 there might be three locations that have grid issues – you’re talking about a number of years away.”
Solar Citizens estimates the charges will raise bills by more than $30 a year for a household with a 5Kw solar system – though about half of systems sold are larger than this.
Ms Gray fears these proposals are just the start and that household costs will rise even further.
“This is networks dipping their toes in to see what they can get away with,” she said."
More in the article...
IMHO it's up to the power companies to build sufficient storage to handle any power graciously gifted to them by consumers at whatever time of the day they get it, instead of lumping more costs on people who paid good money to increase generation.
It's about timer some of these companies got their a$$es kicked because they are not providing good value for their products.
'Sun tax': Outcry over plans to charge families for solar exports
A controversial plan to charge families with solar panels for power they feed back into the grid has drawn new criticism
thenewdaily.com.au
"
A controversial plan to charge families with solar panels for power they feed back into the grid has drawn new criticism from advocates who say distributors have failed to justify the moves.
Energy distributors including Ausgrid have this week submitted plans to regulators that will see households charged between 0.94 cents per kilowatt hour (c/Kwh) to 3.6 c/Kwh for exported energy, above set limits.
It comes after a 2021 ruling from the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) that allows for such charges to reduce congestion across the power grid in the middle of the day.
But consumer group Solar Citizens says the plan amounts to a “sun tax” on families and will drive up bills at a time when the cost of living crisis is squeezing households nationwide.
The group fears the millions of Australian households who own solar panels will be punished because they generate most of their energy during the day and consume most of it at night.
Stephanie Gray, deputy director of the advocacy body, said the new plans submitted by distributors to the Australian Energy Regulator fail to prove that solar exports will congest their networks.
Under the rules distributors are required to show that solar systems will burden the grid during the day, with the AER previously saying they would not approve tariffs unless this is proved.
“If you look at Ausgrid’s proposal, they use a sample case of looking at all these different places around the network,” Ms Gray said.
“They’re saying that by 2029 there might be three locations that have grid issues – you’re talking about a number of years away.”
Solar Citizens estimates the charges will raise bills by more than $30 a year for a household with a 5Kw solar system – though about half of systems sold are larger than this.
Ms Gray fears these proposals are just the start and that household costs will rise even further.
“This is networks dipping their toes in to see what they can get away with,” she said."
More in the article...
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
Well @SirRumpole as we talked about several years ago, no one will want to pay for storage and that is what we need the most of.
So this isnt a surprise, I wonder if @basilio has solar, or storage, or an E.V yet.
So this isnt a surprise, I wonder if @basilio has solar, or storage, or an E.V yet.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
If only we had a National Energy Guarantee.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
Energy on the East coat is a basket case, next cab off the rank is energy intensive businesses, it is hard to reduce your carbon footprint, when your energy provider cant reduce theirs.If only we had a National Energy Guarantee.
Oh what a mess.
Meanwhile in W.A the taxpayer, is paying the coal miner to dig up their coal and give it to the power station they are contracted to supply it to.
Those who criticised several years ago, are conspicuous by their silence these days. Lol
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
It sounds as though Chris Bowen has told the Greens where to get off.
The next problem, is to find Australian companies willing to invest in coal.
www.abc.net.au
www.smh.com.au
Climate and Energy Minister Chris Bowen has ruled out banning new coal and gas projects as part of negotiations with the Greens over the government’s proposed emissions reduction and environmental protection overhauls.
Speaking to ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday morning, Bowen also defended the use of carbon offsets for polluters to abide by an emissions limit under the safeguard mechanism, saying without “flexibility” industries like cement producers would have to lay off workers or reduce production.
The government and the Greens have been in a standoff over upcoming bills, with Greens leader Adam Bandt calling for a ban on new coal and gas projects in return for the party’s support of the safeguard mechanism.
The safeguard mechanism applies to the country’s biggest polluters and would mandate the reduction of emissions by 4.9 per cent each year.
Bowen again refused to yield to the Greens’ demand, saying while Labor wasn’t proposing new coal projects, it wouldn’t ban them either, and wanted all big emitters to be subject to the same pollution reduction regime.
The next problem, is to find Australian companies willing to invest in coal.
Mining giant BHP to sell two coal mines as profits slump, royalties hike frustrates
Mining giant BHP announces its intention to sell two central Queensland mines, one of which has been operating for 50 years.
www.abc.net.au
Labor calls Greens bluff on gas and coal in safeguard negotiations
Climate and Energy Minister Chris Bowen has rejected demands to ban new coal and gas projects as debate intensifies over proposed emissions reduction legislation.
Speaking to ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday morning, Bowen also defended the use of carbon offsets for polluters to abide by an emissions limit under the safeguard mechanism, saying without “flexibility” industries like cement producers would have to lay off workers or reduce production.
The government and the Greens have been in a standoff over upcoming bills, with Greens leader Adam Bandt calling for a ban on new coal and gas projects in return for the party’s support of the safeguard mechanism.
The safeguard mechanism applies to the country’s biggest polluters and would mandate the reduction of emissions by 4.9 per cent each year.
Bowen again refused to yield to the Greens’ demand, saying while Labor wasn’t proposing new coal projects, it wouldn’t ban them either, and wanted all big emitters to be subject to the same pollution reduction regime.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
Rewiring Australia for renewables, one suburb at a time.
www.abc.net.au
More on Australian Story, ABC.
Meet the Australian 'genius' engineer with a plan to electrify everything
His bold ideas caught the eye of the US president. Now inventor Saul Griffith is sparking an energy revolution in Australia, with a goal to create the first all-electric community where households could save $3,000 a year on their energy bills.
www.abc.net.au
More on Australian Story, ABC.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
I have just come to realise another problem with all this gas is bad and lets be honest I've had very little to do with gas, so it isn't as though I have any vested interest in it.
But I was just watching 'Forged in fire' both the wife and I enjoy it, because it shows how different people deal with difficult situations.
Then I got to thinking about the issue I have where I have to heat up a motor cycle wheel centre assembly to push in a new bearing hub.
The wheel centre wont fit in the kitchen oven, even if the wife would let ne, which she wouldn't.
So I have to use a gas torch to heat the centre up to 150c, so that I can push in the hub centre bearing housing, the Greens have reminded me I must get on with it.
Just a side issue on the road to banning gas, didn't intend to derail the thread, it was just the obvious place to put it.
But I was just watching 'Forged in fire' both the wife and I enjoy it, because it shows how different people deal with difficult situations.
Then I got to thinking about the issue I have where I have to heat up a motor cycle wheel centre assembly to push in a new bearing hub.
The wheel centre wont fit in the kitchen oven, even if the wife would let ne, which she wouldn't.
So I have to use a gas torch to heat the centre up to 150c, so that I can push in the hub centre bearing housing, the Greens have reminded me I must get on with it.
Just a side issue on the road to banning gas, didn't intend to derail the thread, it was just the obvious place to put it.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
It is people like Saul that drive the initiative, rather than the narrative, they are the ones that the media should be talking to rather than each other in their airconditioned mansions.Rewiring Australia for renewables, one suburb at a time.
Meet the Australian 'genius' engineer with a plan to electrify everything
His bold ideas caught the eye of the US president. Now inventor Saul Griffith is sparking an energy revolution in Australia, with a goal to create the first all-electric community where households could save $3,000 a year on their energy bills.
More on Australian Story, ABC.
I know a couple who have lived completely off grid for over twelve months, they have three internet hungry teenage kids and they are less stressed than they were when they started.
The reality is, it focuses the issues to where the power is being wasted and where it can be saved.
So now they have smart wiring, so that internet access can be curfewed, spend a little save a lot and gives quality time to study.
Would that happen in suburbia? no chance, does it allocate the kids time better to internet time and study time? You bet..
The reason they were stressed before going off grid, was they are from an electrical background, so they actually knew the issues, that going off grid would present.
- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,127
- Reactions
- 16,982
I totally agree with the message although I don't see any genius aspect to it (because there are places in the world where pretty much everything other than transport was electrified decades ago) but I strongly disagree with the "all or nothing, all at once" approach he seems to be pushing.
Changing your hot water or heating to electric when the gas appliance dies or buying an electric car when you next buy a car are logical actions.
Tell people it's all or nothing though, tell them that they must buy a new heat pump water heater, a new heating system, a new car, oven, cooktop, lawnmower and so on and do the whole lot all at once on a suburb by suburb basis and that's a damn good way to have them see the whole thing as completely unaffordable.
There's no reason why you can't be driving your EV to the service station to buy 5 litres of petrol for the lawnmower and there's no reason why you can't replace your failing gas water heater with electric but keep the perfectly good space heater and cooktop for now. It doesn't have to be all or nothing all at once.
I agree with electrification, indeed I find the whole idea of not being electric a tad strange, but we don't need a postcode approach to doing it.
- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,127
- Reactions
- 16,982
It's possible to melt steel with gas if you're really keen.
I do have in the shed a blowtorch rated at 154kW should the need arise.....
Main downside, apart from being fairly hot, is the 9kg gas bottle for the BBQ really won't last long running that.
- Joined
- 3 July 2009
- Posts
- 27,102
- Reactions
- 23,702
Yes the wheel centre is alloy, the bearing carrier is steel, so I only have to heat up the alloy.It's possible to melt steel with gas if you're really keen.
I do have in the shed a blowtorch rated at 154kW should the need arise.....
Main downside, apart from being fairly hot, is the 9kg gas bottle for the BBQ really won't last long running that.
Sounds like you have an oxy set.
So this is what it started with.
And this is what I have to heat up to push in the small bearing holder on the right, the one on the left is the disaster that a motor cycle expert worked on.
When I fix this one I have to do the same to the other wheel, the same expert worked on.
But I can't complain I got a bargain from the pizzed off owner.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 14 February 2005
- Posts
- 15,127
- Reactions
- 16,982
No oxy set, just a hand held LPG burner that burns 11kg / hour.Sounds like you have an oxy set.
That's a pretty decent blowtorch. Just a random thing I obtained that was being thrown away. Pretty sure it wouldn't pass modern workplace safety standards.....
I've only used it twice. Once when trying to get oil out of shale and I needed a heat source. The other time to fix the cracks in an asphalt driveway - melted it and it all sealed up.
Gas does have an advantage when you need that sort of heat.
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
Energy price hikes are on the way.
thenewdaily.com.au
Huge electricity bill hikes hit families ahead of default offer decision
Millions of families are facing huge hikes in their electricity bills this week as EnergyAustralia hits households with massive price hikes.
- Joined
- 28 May 2020
- Posts
- 6,302
- Reactions
- 11,938
Hmm, that will not help in the RBA drive to reduce inflation.Energy price hikes are on the way.
Huge electricity bill hikes hit families ahead of default offer decision
Millions of families are facing huge hikes in their electricity bills this week as EnergyAustralia hits households with massive price hikes.
Those input price cost increases will be passed on to consumers.
Mick
- Joined
- 26 March 2014
- Posts
- 19,742
- Reactions
- 12,085
Exactly. This is something the RBA cannot solve. It's up to governments to take the pressure of gas and electricity price increases.
What they have done so far is not enough.
