Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

The future of energy generation and storage

Jump to new
sptrawler said:
They are going to import coal from Indonesia apparently.
Click to expand...
The article quoted that South32 in WA is already inporting coal from abroad.
I wonder how long it will be before we as a whole, become net coal importer, Just need a few more green and teal MP seats in the CBD and we will save the planet, as a gift to mankind as per the famous German saying...
What a shamble, Nature/God gave everything to a country and we manage to F it up.
Australia is the biblical garden of Eden, but we could not find Adam and Eve, just Stevie and Shaza..
And not sure if they found the apple tree as the lights are off
 
A somewhat exciting day in SA today with storms causing an assortment of transmission line trips, including loss of AC interconnection with Victoria.

The good news is that, unlike 2016 in similar circumstances, the system held up. That there's widespread power outages, with over 85,000 properties without power at present, being due to localised damage to the distribution network rather than a failure or shortage of bulk supply.

That's an important distinction since it means the system as such held up apart from the bits that are actually damaged. In layman's terms generation and transmission has kept going as a whole and is intact enough to cope with the load. It's copped a few punches straight in the face courtesy of the storms but didn't fall over. That's a much better outcome than some previous incidents where the whole lot shut down.

What's damaged is the lines in suburban streets etc with 214 known separate fault at present. So localised outages but no overall system failure beyond what's actually damaged.

1668251437728.png


Each red bubble represents a separate fault.

The power's off at home although, Smurf being Smurf, I do have my own generation source as backup. ;)
 
I have previously highlighted a UK company called RheEnergise which has developed a pumped hydro solution that is far more cost effective and efficient than traditional systems. Long story short they have developed a fluid that is 2.5 times heavier than water as the energy medium. This changes all the cost and engineering figures dramatically.

It offers an opportunity to develop hundreds of local pumped hydro battery systems at a substantial discount to traditional systems. The company is steadily progressing its operations.

Check out it.

www.rheenergise.com

RheEnergise High-Density Hydro

RheEnergise Pumped Energy Storage: Lowering the levelised cost of energy storage. Increasing the availability of sites. Exceptionally fast reaction times. Long Duration. Long life. Highly flexible. High-Density Hydro®
www.rheenergise.com www.rheenergise.com

 
basilio said:
I have previously highlighted a UK company called RheEnergise which has developed a pumped hydro solution that is far more cost effective and efficient than traditional systems. Long story short they have developed a fluid that is 2.5 times heavier than water as the energy medium. This changes all the cost and engineering figures dramatically.

It offers an opportunity to develop hundreds of local pumped hydro battery systems at a substantial discount to traditional systems. The company is steadily progressing its operations.

Check out it.

www.rheenergise.com

RheEnergise High-Density Hydro

RheEnergise Pumped Energy Storage: Lowering the levelised cost of energy storage. Increasing the availability of sites. Exceptionally fast reaction times. Long Duration. Long life. Highly flexible. High-Density Hydro®
www.rheenergise.com www.rheenergise.com

Click to expand...

Will be interesting to see what our resident expert says. ;)
 
SirRumpole said:
Will be interesting to see what our resident expert says. ;)
Click to expand...
salt solution can do that (up to slightly above 1.3 freshwater density), imagine the outcry with a lake full of brine
or worse mercury: 13.5kg /litre :)
But you could probably designed system using sand or at the extreme: lifting weights as has been discussed in the past:
www.wired.com

Gravity Could Solve Clean Energy’s One Major Drawback

Finding green energy when the winds are calm and the skies are cloudy has been a challenge. Storing it in giant concrete blocks could be the answer.
www.wired.com www.wired.com
or a loaded train on a slope
 
So far as alternatives to water in pumped hydro schemes are concerned, the basic issues that come to mind in a technical sense are:

Abrasion - at high head (pressure) any silt present in the water is undesirable.

Constantly being sandblasted at high pressure doesn't exactly extend the lifespan of a turbine runner but at lower heads it's far less of an issue. There are low head stations in Europe that basically have mud running through them for example, well it's filthy looking water at least, but when there's only a few metres of head that doesn't really matter. Very different if it's hundreds of metres. So if the head is high enough then abrasion of any non-water material is a potential issue.

Another is corrosion and compatibility with construction materials. Bearing in mind the presence of multiple materials - epoxy coated steel, stainless steel, concrete, reinforced plastic and so on. Heck can even use wood if someone's keen to build that way.

Another is environmental. Conventional approaches to hydro construction don't obsess over avoiding all leakage simply because, well, it's only water after all. Hence the use of open canals, unlined tunnels and so on - they're good enough and if a minor amount is lost then no big deal. Very different it the fluid is highly valuable and/or toxic.

Viscosity and frictional losses another issue since that'll impact efficiency. Bearing in mind that all the conventional friction modified coatings were developed specifically with water in mind, they weren't considering anything else.

Subject to all that though, I see no reason why it couldn't be done. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out the things which need to be considered and that these will be substance specific.

Then there's the more tricky stuff. Conventional modern hydro machines are vertical axis, turbine on the bottom and alternator above, using rather large but conventional bearings lubricated with petroleum-based lubricants. There are alternative approaches however, like centering the shaft using water pressure and doing away with the oil and grease for the avoidance of metal on metal contact, an approach that tends to raise eyebrows but it's certainly doable.

I wouldn't expect anyone to try that with an alternative non-water fluid, at least not in a hurry without some serious testing, but it's another issue.

Can't see anyone using mercury though!
 
Smurf1976 said:
So far as alternatives to water in pumped hydro schemes are concerned, the basic issues that come to mind in a technical sense are:

Abrasion - at high head (pressure) any silt present in the water is undesirable.

Constantly being sandblasted at high pressure doesn't exactly extend the lifespan of a turbine runner but at lower heads it's far less of an issue. There are low head stations in Europe that basically have mud running through them for example, well it's filthy looking water at least, but when there's only a few metres of head that doesn't really matter. Very different if it's hundreds of metres. So if the head is high enough then abrasion of any non-water material is a potential issue.

Another is corrosion and compatibility with construction materials. Bearing in mind the presence of multiple materials - epoxy coated steel, stainless steel, concrete, reinforced plastic and so on. Heck can even use wood if someone's keen to build that way.

Another is environmental. Conventional approaches to hydro construction don't obsess over avoiding all leakage simply because, well, it's only water after all. Hence the use of open canals, unlined tunnels and so on - they're good enough and if a minor amount is lost then no big deal. Very different it the fluid is highly valuable and/or toxic.

Viscosity and frictional losses another issue since that'll impact efficiency. Bearing in mind that all the conventional friction modified coatings were developed specifically with water in mind, they weren't considering anything else.

Subject to all that though, I see no reason why it couldn't be done. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out the things which need to be considered and that these will be substance specific.

Then there's the more tricky stuff. Conventional modern hydro machines are vertical axis, turbine on the bottom and alternator above, using rather large but conventional bearings lubricated with petroleum-based lubricants. There are alternative approaches however, like centering the shaft using water pressure and doing away with the oil and grease for the avoidance of metal on metal contact, an approach that tends to raise eyebrows but it's certainly doable.

I wouldn't expect anyone to try that with an alternative non-water fluid, at least not in a hurry without some serious testing, but it's another issue.

Can't see anyone using mercury though!
Click to expand...
RheEnergise have clearly developed a product that works to their satisfaction as a medium for small pumped hydro projects. The pipes are all enclosed and in fact they propose laying them underground. Their motors are designed to work with the patented material.

The fluid has been independently tested and is non toxic.
 
basilio said:
RheEnergise have clearly developed a product that works to their satisfaction as a medium for small pumped hydro projects. The pipes are all enclosed and in fact they propose laying them underground. Their motors are designed to work with the patented material.

The fluid has been independently tested and is non toxic.
Click to expand...

If it works, it will sell.
If it doesn't, it wont.
 
basilio said:
RheEnergise have clearly developed a product that works to their satisfaction as a medium for small pumped hydro projects. The pipes are all enclosed and in fact they propose laying them underground. Their motors are designed to work with the patented material.

The fluid has been independently tested and is non toxic.
Click to expand...
Not aiming to shoot anyone down but as with all of this, time will tell.

It's all great that it's non-toxic but that of itself isn't a guarantee. There's a pretty long list of things that were just fine "on paper" until someone found that in practice there's a problem.

Hence my cautious approach. It might be fine but I'm reserving judgement until it's up and running and studies are done. :2twocents
 
Last edited:
Smurf1976 said:
Not aiming to shoot anyone down but as with all of this, time will tell.

It's all great that it's non-toxic but so were a lot of things until someone worked out that they actually do have issues when they enter the environment. There's a pretty long list of things that were just fine "on paper" until someone found that in practice there's a serious problem.

Hence my cautious approach. It might be fine but 'm reserving judgement until it's up and running and studies are done. Given the nature of it, the potential for problems is at least plausibly real. :2twocents
Click to expand...
Yes, SF6 was hugely popular for HV switching and now it's banned as it is 25000 times more potent than CO2.
 
Canada to join the SMR race.
www.reuters.com

Canada commits C$970 million to new nuclear power technology

Canada will provide C$970 million ($708 million) in financing to develop a grid-scale small modular reactor (SMR), a new nuclear technology touted as a key part of the country's plans to reduce emissions, Natural Resources Minister Jonathan Wilkinson said on Tuesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Nuclear Power in Canada - World Nuclear Association

Nuclear Power in Canada About 16% of Canada's electricity comes from nuclear power, using indigenous technology. 18 reactors provide over 12,600 MWe of clear power. Information from the WNA the World Nuclear Association
world-nuclear.org world-nuclear.org
 
Well I did say Chris Bowen and the boys will be in a world of pain shortly, it sounds as though it has arrived, reducing people's electricity bills by $265/year seems a world away. It sounds like the big red panic button is about to be pressed. :eek:
The good thing is the rising power costs should reduce usage, therefore emissions.;)
www.smh.com.au

Energy prices to ‘hollow out’ manufacturing within two years: Chalmers

The federal treasurer says manufacturing will be crippled within years by soaring energy prices as he lays out justifications for market intervention.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
From the article:
Australia’s manufacturing sector will be crippled by soaring energy prices within two years unless the government acts to bring down costs, Treasurer Jim Chalmers says as he prepares to announce what would be an unprecedented market intervention.

Chalmers told manufacturing and business leaders on Monday he was preparing to announce “temporary, meaningful, sensible” regulations to ease the crisis.
An international energy crunch is driving international demand, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and the federal Treasury forecast that gas prices would rise a further 20 per cent next year, and electricity prices 30 per cent.

The Albanese government is under pressure to relieve the pressure of energy costs on households and industry, following its election promise to revitalise manufacturing and cut power bills by $275 by 2025.

Chalmers all but ruled out imposing new taxes on industry, which could be used to generate revenue to pay for household and business energy subsidies. Chalmers has warned such subsidies could drive inflation and on Monday said he hoped to bring in new regulations as “urgently as we can”.

He said he would consult widely before it announces “something as meaningful and potentially consequential as what we’re contemplating”.

The Albanese government has formed a working group to nut out a solution, comprising Chalmers, Finance Minister Katy Gallagher, Climate Change and Energy Minister Chris Bowen and Industry Minister Ed Husic.
 
sptrawler said:
No frog, it is all getting to the pointy end, BS is getting harder to sell as the fossil fueled stations are closing.
Click to expand...
Even the RBA is now starting to pop the bubble, that the price of power will reduce as we transition to renewables, people just have to accept power is going to get very expensive:

Reserve Bank of Australia governor Philip Lowe has issued a blunt warning that the renewable energy transition would probably spark higher and more volatile energy prices in the years ahead
 
sptrawler said:
Even the RBA is now starting to pop the bubble, that the price of power will reduce as we transition to renewables, people just have to accept power is going to get very expensive:

Reserve Bank of Australia governor Philip Lowe has issued a blunt warning that the renewable energy transition would probably spark higher and more volatile energy prices in the years ahead
Click to expand...

For transition and price stability they really needed gas, the east coast gas market shambles has blown that all out of the water as the price of gas spirals out of control and major market players reap the befits of low taxation and lack of domestic regulation as Australia throws away the immediate benefits for future generations.

Instead we (that's all of us) pass on the benefits of government debt which has SFA to show for it.

One idea I did see recently (its not new) is all the US military nuclear reactors that are around on war ships, using them as stop gap measures or similar size reactors that are mobile devoted to power generation moveable to where they are needed.

Doesn't solve Australia's problems as we have no chance of access to the tech unfortunately.
 

Similar threads

System
SS1 - Sun Silver
2
Replies
23
Views
4K
Sean K
Sean K
Dona Ferentes
PGTX - Platinum Global Transition Fund
Replies
1
Views
520
Dona Ferentes
Dona Ferentes
System
ASK - Abacus Storage King
Replies
15
Views
3K
finicky
finicky
System
D3E - D3 Energy
Replies
2
Views
1K
Dona Ferentes
Dona Ferentes
ducati916
August DDD
2 3 4
Replies
75
Views
18K
ducati916
ducati916
Top