The future of Australian property prices

[So_Cynical]

If I was a tradie I think I'd be heading over to the Gordon Project. Minimum wage of $150,000 for unskilled workers. More if you have a trade behind you. Then there will be the inevitable shortage of tradies in the city and their wages also dramatically increase. The cycle is starting all over again.

My step father is a sparky and spent 5 months in Karratha last year working for an electrical mob up there...clearing 3 grand a week working 5 days a week with a company vehicle...needless to say he's going back next winter for another 5 months.

 

[nunthewiser]

My step father is a sparky and spent 5 months in Karratha last year working for an electrical mob up there...clearing 3 grand a week working 5 days a week with a company vehicle...needless to say he's going back next winter for another 5 months.

And paying 2k a week rent? or was he lucky enough to bunk down with others ?

 

[drsmith]

My step father is a sparky and spent 5 months in Karratha last year working for an electrical mob up there...clearing 3 grand a week working 5 days a week with a company vehicle...needless to say he's going back next winter for another 5 months.

Real estate is very expensive up there in the desert.

http://www.realestate.com.au/reales...+headland+port+hedland/zpcayz/page2/106227106

Compare that to John Denver's favourite country;

http://www.kaym.com/view_property.php?lid=52&p=3

Even after currency conversion it's still cheaper.

 

[nunthewiser]

Real estate is very expensive up there in the desert.

http://www.realestate.com.au/reales...+headland+port+hedland/zpcayz/page2/106227106

.

Yep .

Got a mate up there pulling in 3.5k /week .. got a mortgage in perth and paying 2.2k/week rent up in karratha..... after 2.2k PLUS his mortgage he would be just as well off working from the city and be with his family .... But hey it sounds nice.

 

[drsmith]

This has to take the cake.

http://www.realestate.com.au/reales...+headland+port+hedland/zpcayz/page2/106197020

 

[drsmith]

Yep .

Got a mate up there pulling in 3.5k /week .. got a mortgage in perth and paying 2.2k/week rent up in karratha..... after 2.2k PLUS his mortgage he would be just as well off working from the city and be with his family .... But hey it sounds nice.

I lived up there for a few months in winter in the mid 90's. Weather was nice as was the view from the sea-front split-level house in Port Hedland (Sutherland Street). The climate up there for most of the year however is extremely harsh, even on the coast.

Whoever located and designed South Hedland however should be put up against a wall, shot, propped up against the wall again and given another round. It has to be the second most awful place on earth (assuming there's somewhere else that's worse).

Investors in that market won't want China to stumble.

 

[Tysonboss1]

5. I could become a tradesperson, but to take a paycut is not really an option I find appealing.

If you already earn more than a trades man what is your problem, why do you care what they earn.

And remember a trades man books may look like they have low over heads because their own labour does not show up as an outgoing expense, I tell you I wouldn't be lugging bricks around in the middle of summer with out a decent pay check on pay day.

Just because they didn't spend 6 years smoking bongs and chasing skirt at uni doesn't mean they don't spend the best part of their life slogging out hard labour, the deserve all they earn

Are you simply being so arrogant that you feel because they don't have a UNI degree they should be on minimum wage.

Trades men do earn what looks to be a large hourly rate for their labour but you have to think about how many hours in the average day they can charge that they may only be able to book 3 or 4 hours labour once traveling between jobs, picking up supplys and doing quotes is factored in.

And they still may have to pay a book keeper and some one to answer the phones etc.

 

[drsmith]

Is that the world's smallest violin I hear playing ?

 

[Soft Dough]

Just because they didn't spend 6 years smoking bongs and chasing skirt at uni doesn't mean they don't spend the best part of their life slogging out hard labour, the deserve all they earn

Are you simply being so arrogant that you feel because they don't have a UNI degree they should be on minimum wage.

I love this comment. Obviously you have never completed a medical degree. It is constant and makes the content of any other bachelor degree ( with the exceptions of dentistry and vet science ) seem laughable.

Arrogant regarding UNI degrees?? Of course not. If you can recall from my previous post, I think UNI degrees are over-rated. I respect any training people have undertaken, as it shows committment to their chosen career and a willingness to improve themselves.

I have no problem paying whatever a tradesman charges AS LONG AS IT IS NOT GOVERNMENT SUBSIDISED.

ie I have no problem paying my mechanic or butcher, but hate paying too much for building tradies as they have received artificially propped up supply and demand due primarily John Howard's poor foresight and Kevin Rudd's plain stupidity.

 

[SM Junkie]

I lived up there for a few months in winter in the mid 90's. Weather was nice as was the view from the sea-front split-level house in Port Hedland (Sutherland Street). The climate up there for most of the year however is extremely harsh, even on the coast.

Whoever located and designed South Hedland however should be put up against a wall, shot, propped up against the wall again and given another round. It has to be the second most awful place on earth (assuming there's somewhere else that's worse).

Investors in that market won't want China to stumble.

The lady who designed South Hedland committed suicide many years ago. It's designed like a rose, so it is full of dead ends.

 

[nunthewiser]

I have no problem paying whatever a tradesman charges AS LONG AS IT IS NOT GOVERNMENT SUBSIDISED.

ie I have no problem paying my mechanic or butcher, but hate paying too much for building tradies as they have received artificially propped up supply and demand due primarily John Howard's poor foresight and Kevin Rudd's plain stupidity.

You just dont get it ..........

The propping up of the Building trade has ramifications on near on EVERY trade/occupation/business out there .right from the cleaner to the mechanic to the manufacturers to the tyre salesman to the tv repairman ......

They all making a part of there cash from a direct flow on from the stimulas and govverment subsidised building game........

But hey i didnt go to uni so what would i know.

 

[drsmith]

The lady who designed South Hedland committed suicide many years ago. It's designed like a rose, so it is full of dead ends.

Sad she committed suicide but at the same time she should have realised a rose does not flourish in the desert.

 

[Soft Dough]

You just dont get it ..........

The propping up of the Building trade has ramifications on near on EVERY trade/occupation/business out there .right from the cleaner to the mechanic to the manufacturers to the tyre salesman to the tv repairman ......

They all making a part of there cash from a direct flow on from the stimulas and govverment subsidised building game........

But hey i didnt go to uni so what would i know.

Love the last line, good try .. oh please tell me your spelling was intentional to get me to bite

Yes you are right that there are ramifications for everyone.

Pity your response is framed to make it sound like a good thing

The response for ALL is INFLATION

The response for the few is positive, as in $$$, which is highly skewed towards the tradesmen, suppliers, importers, and ancillary service sector. Too much of this money goes to consumption, and the subsidy of the wages feeds into increased housing prices which leads to parking of money in assets which are essentially unproductive.

But then again, there are always 2 sides to a good, or poor argument.


I agree that spending money is good at times, but would prefer our brain donor treasurer and prime minister to spend it on things that actually have a return on investment, eg rail infrastructure, port infrastructure, education ( well targetted ) etc, rather than plonking it in upright sticks and stones ( houses ) and plasma tvs.

 

[Tysonboss1]

I love this comment. Obviously you have never completed a medical degree. It is constant and makes the content of any other bachelor degree ( with the exceptions of dentistry and vet science ) seem laughable.

No I have never completed a medical degree, But I guess it's worth the few years study when you get to sit in air conditioning earning top $ while you scribble out prescriptions and writing dodgy doctors certificates for the rest of your life. ( just Kidding, I think surgens etc are worth their weight in gold).

"It is constant and makes the content of any other bachelor degree seem laughable"

So is thirty years of lugging bricks.

 

[drsmith]

While the physical work may be hard it has historically been easier to learn a trade than a profession. It then stands to reason that tradies get paid less.

Anything else represents an economic imbalance.

 

[satanoperca]

Tradies are over paid and if it wasn't for the credit free for all then they would recieve an equal days pay for an equals day work.

I have also found that tradies are like soccers players, they cry at the slightest injury.

Laying bricks does not equate into being a doctor. Get over it.

End of storey.

 

[Fleeta]

End of storey.

How is your spelling??

 

[Tysonboss1]

While the physical work may be hard it has historically been easier to learn a trade than a profession. It then stands to reason that tradies get paid less.

Anything else represents an economic imbalance.

the free market sets the prices should never be set by how much study you have to do, it should be set by the supply and demand of that trade, If there is a shortage of skilled labour then tradesman can be picky about which jobs they wish to take and ask for higher prices, This should then encourage more into that trade which should over time raise the supply to where the tradesmen have to fight a bit hard for jobs and this should lower prices.

However if a trade is genuinely such hard yakka that even big pay cheaques don't encourage more people to enter the trade, then it probally means that the ones who are prepared to do the job deserve the larger pay off.

 

[Beej]

I think you need some business training, you seem to think that the amount in which people charge per hour equals = Take home profit, This is simply untrue.

the chiro probally does charge $200 dollars an hour, but from this figure has to come rent of the building, electric, gas and phone bills, he probally has a receptionist who's hourly rate, holiday pay, super, sick days all have to come from the $200 fee,

Not to mention insurance, advertising, stationary, printer cartridges etc.etc.

The same is said for lawyers, mechanics, accountants, trades people and any other class where people complain about the high hourly fee.

I think tradies deserve their pay ( I am not a tradie ), alot of their work is hard yakka especially in summer. I don't want to be outside moving bricks around in the middle of summer, do you, thats hard work, so they deserve every thing they get.

At the end of the day we live in a free market that sets the prices, and if there is limited people available to do a job we need the price to go up to attract more to the profession.

If their job is so easy, why don't you just become a tradie your self.

Hear hear! I was going to write a similar post but Tysonboss1 has summed it up pretty well IMO.

Perhaps comparing a GP to a plumber would be a better example, as both are employees of pseudo companies ( and in fact the tradesman has many more avenues available to legally minimise tax )

A GP will often earn 60% of their billings which are around $30 per consult and can perform 4 consults per hour.

So a GP earning $72 per hour vs a plumber earning $100 per hour. The higher overheads of the plumber being offset by the ability to claim many more items as tax deductions etc, means that there is a real difference.

I don't know where you find GPs that only charge $30 per consult that also only do 4 consults an hour? In Sydney, if you can even find a bulk billing GP, they would do at least 8 consults an hour or more and so earn more like double what you are suggesting. However, most GPs in this town charge $65-$80 a consult (and we pay the difference between medicare rebate and their charge), and so all earn considerably more than you are estimating. I have never met a poor doctor. I won't even mention my 2 friends (married couple) who are both neurologists and the HUGE amounts they earn - but that's because I think they deserve every cent of it!

Cheers,

Beej

 

[Bigukraine]

Hear hear! I was going to write a similar post but Tysonboss1 has summed ti up pretty well IMO.

Cheers,

Beej

Just wan't to say thanks to tysonboss 1 , nun and all the others for putting their views on this subject re the trades. supply and demand in a nutshell is it,stimulus or not. soft d forgets that what he hates about the pesant un uni workforce is that they have made his Sydney home (example only) double over the last ten years (prob more) due to the Howard/ Rudd factor and their labour. soft d hope you don't choke on you "grange" and the supply of cavair is nice and constant for you.