The Death Penalty: Do/would you support it?

[Sean K]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Visual,

I'm not saying that the 'criminal' gene can be isolated but genetics predispose us to certain personality traits and intelligence quota. Then we are influenced by society at large. This is common dog.

Certain people are predisposed to turn into criminals because of genes and environment. Neither may be a direct influence, but will absolutely be a factor contributing to someones final actions.

Bullmarket,

I look forward to the outcome of the trial about this lunatic. I think he should have pleaded insanity to get the best result for himself. Did I read correctly that this child was also a boy? Holy ghost Batman, your God certainly created an incedibly warped and demented and peverse human. In His own image mind you! God was a rapist of 3 year old boys??? What omnipotent Being would create such a thing?

 

[bullmarket]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Hi kennas

It appears to me that you are becoming increasingly frustrated with me having different views to you and accepting the fact that those like I who oppose the death penalty are just as entitled to our views as you and those supporting the death penalty are entitled to yours.

I have never said that everyone must do what God, or whoever your equivalent might be, says is the right thing to do so I don't see what your previous post is getting at .......every human being has the option to either follow God or not...some will, some won't...it's as simple as that

cheers

bullmarket

 

[visual]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Hi visual

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the autopsy did not find the cause of death and so, in theory at least, maybe it wasn't the electric shock that killed the child.........that is for the jury to decide based on ALL the evidence that is presented in the court and not for you or I or anyone else to decide waffling on in chatrooms making judgements based on what is reported in newspapers which may or may not be factual......and even if it is assumed that the electric shock killed the child, the prosecution then has to prove to the jury that the intent behind the shock was premeditated murder and not something else....which would make the accused guilty of lesser charges.

I still maintain that ANY accused person has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Based solely on the contents of the story you posted, I personally could not convict the accused of murder simply because there are too many unknowns with the main unknown being the cause of death......but I am sure there has been and there will be more evidenced presented to the jury to decide how the child died and if it was murder or not.

cheers

bullmarket

Bullmarket,the point I`m trying to make is that as a society we allow these things to happen,not ignoring any thing.You would have to be a total moron not to know that the electrical current would`ve killed the child.What other intent could there possibly have been,The boy was 3 years old.The only reason this human garbage was allowed to plead guilty to the sexual assualt was becasue in all probablity there was a deal between the lawyers,thats all.

Also his lawyer is reported in the paper using language as though minimizing the sexual assualt.And presenting the eletricution as a life saving attempt.Do you see what I mean now.We put too many things in place to defend the indefensible.And I`m pretty sure that if the system was prepared to spend enough money they wouldve been able to determine a cause of death.And the fact that he was sexually assualting the child wouldve been taken in consideration at the sentencing stage or during the case.

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

I agree to disagree Bull.

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

But Bull, I wonder if this fun loving guy was a Christian? I bet he becomes one in jail.

 

[visual]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Visual,

I'm not saying that the 'criminal' gene can be isolated but genetics predispose us to certain personality traits and intelligence quota. Then we are influenced by society at large. This is common dog.

Certain people are predisposed to turn into criminals because of genes and environment. Neither may be a direct influence, but will absolutely be a factor contributing to someones final actions.

Bullmarket,

I look forward to the outcome of the trial about this lunatic. I think he should have pleaded insanity to get the best result for himself. Did I read correctly that this child was also a boy? Holy ghost Batman, your God certainly created an incedibly warped and demented and peverse human. In His own image mind you! God was a rapist of 3 year old boys??? What omnipotent Being would create such a thing?

Kennas first of all I take offence to you addressing me as DOG.This is Australia not some ghetto,all you`ve proved that you are simply a wannabe.
Also you have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.Seeing that you have just proven that the gutter can be reached simply by watching television not even experiencing the situation.

 

[bullmarket]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

I agree to disagree Bull.

sounds good to me kennas

cheers

bullmarket

 

[bullmarket]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Hi visual

no problem but please don't misunderstand me.

As I said in earlier posts, I certainly don't condone what the accused did and I would imagine that your interpretation of what killed the child, seeing the autopsy could not find the cause of death, and motives behind it could be correct.

But the basic difference in our views, as I see it, is that you are prepared to convict the accused of murder right here and now and I am not since I firmly believe in everyone's right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and based solely on the newspaper report (which is dangerous to do at the best of times ) for me personally there are too many uncertainties to convict him of murder, but of lesser charges for sure.....ie...the cause of death is uncertain for me atm and the motive behind the electric shock has not been conclusively established atm.

Hopefully during the trial more evidence will be presented to clear up the uncertainties but at this stage I could not come up with a guilty verdict.

But again, after all of the above, even if the murder charge is eventually proved it still does not justify a death penalty imo for the reasons I posted earlier..

Please don't think I am defending the accused at this stage as I am neither defending or convicting him atm.....what I am trying to defend is the process we have to help determine what actually happened and to what extent guilt is to be apportioned to anyone.

cheers

bullmarket

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

he he, visual.

'Common Dog' must be just a military term used to describe an event or situation that everyone knows or understands. I picked this up while serving in the Army. I thought it was a common term that everyone would understand!

Very sorry for this misunderstanding!!!!

 

[edogg75]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Eye for an eye tooth for a tooth. Kill and be killed.

If you assent to the state's killing of its citizens (for whatever reason), then you share the role of executioner with the state. Therefore, you kill and (by your reasoning) should be killed. Society needs to recognise the futility of its obsession with vengence , do away with it, and start trying to address the issues that lead people to extreme acts such as murder. Eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

 

[Buster]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

'Common Dog' must be just a military term used to describe an event or situation that everyone knows or understands. I picked this up while serving in the Army. I thought it was a common term that everyone would understand!

Now that was funny.. I always find it amusing when our jargon is construed as derogatory.. 25 years in the Navy, and the wife generally translates for me now as I'm too lazy to explain it to civiies..

I too support the death penalty, with the caveats that most of the more reasonable of posters have included.. I personally like the deterrents that many other cultures use such as the removal of hands from thieves etc etc.. I've had three rotations through the middle east now, and quite honestly feel safer walking the streets at night there vice Sydney or Melbourne..

Anyway, Cheers all

Buster

 

[Sean K]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Buster, Hope your putting all those allowances on specie U3O8 explorers. he, he. I just got out of the farter, now it's time for a brew.

 

[Happy]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

But the basic difference in our views, as I see it, is that you are prepared to convict the accused of murder right here and now and I am not since I firmly believe in everyone's right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and based solely on the newspaper report (which is dangerous to do at the best of times ) for me personally there are too many uncertainties to convict him of murder, but of lesser charges for sure.....ie...the cause of death is uncertain for me atm and the motive behind the electric shock has not been conclusively established atm.

Hopefully during the trial more evidence will be presented to clear up the uncertainties but at this stage I could not come up with a guilty verdict.

And if little boy was your grandson, before verdict, offender is not guilty and you could even visit the offender as your grandson sexual partner.

Since boy is dead, it is hard to establish if he gave consent to sex, he could be simply experimenting in sexual activities, he could possibly seduce grown up man for lack of same age partners, and poor man fell in love and fell into trap.

He could also, as possible de facto husband, claim any superannuation or part of inheritance left after little boy’s death.



Suppose these avenues were not explored yet, but the way we go and lawyers twist matters and general public accepts bull, who knows, matter of time?

 

[bullmarket]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Hi Happy

I'm not sure what you are getting at because the newspaper story clearly states that the accused has pleaded guilty to the sexual assault charge but not guilty to the murder charge.

The story also said that the autopsy could not find the cause of death, so there is uncertainty there atm for me. Also the motive behind the electric shock has also not been established yet and so that is another uncertainty atm for me.

But even if the charge of murder is eventually proved then all I am saying is that the convictions do not justify a death penalty imo for the reasons I posted earlier and imo the pros greatly outweigh the cons for the alternative to the death penalty I posted.
cheers

bullmarket

 

[tech/a]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

If they're World Cup referees I'd have to think very carefully.

 

[bullmarket]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

John,

even World Cup referees don't deserve the death penalty

 

[tech/a]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

Hmm I'm sure thats a penalty many Cup players would like to be able to impose.

 

[The Mint Man]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

I cant belive how timely I posted this thread.
here are some coments from the 'Horrific child murder in Perth' thread.

THE OTHER THREAD FLOATING AROUND ABOUT WEATHER TO BRING IN THE DEATH PENALTY JUST CHANGED A FEW MINDS I BET...

and heres proof

I think I've just changed my mind about the death penalty.
Nothing else seems appropriate in this instance.
Julia

they are fairly straight forward and to the point.... some have even changed their mind by the looks of it? yes?

 

[It's Snake Pliskin]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

I support the penalty of chopping limbs off. In Japan there is the death penalty, but there are still murders.

If someone was going to lose a limb for robbery and for murder I think they would stop.

 

[The Mint Man]

Re: The Death Penalty. Do/would you support it?

I was acually thinking this today after someone said that death is too good for some of these people. I started to think what could be worse.... anyway I actually thought that cutting off a leg, arm or two would do the trick.
I was not aware that they actually already do this in some countrys.

I think this could be a good solution as you wouldnt be killing them (one for the pro lifers ) but at the same time you could give tyem something to think about for the rest of their life.

In the W.A case you could have the guys penis cut off plus his arms so that he couldnt posibly get hold of anything for the rest of his life, let alone rape someone.