The Albanese government

[SirRumpole]

Neither WA nor the feds own what has been extracted from the ground once permitted.
I can't make it any clearer!

If they did, then once extracted either government - assuming your concept of ownership - could sell it. That does not happen.
You have confused the ability to attract royalties from what is extracted, with actual ownership.

Governments own the resources, they give companies the rights to extract them and then sell them for a profit. If there was no government ownership they could not require a reserve like WA does.

 

[basilio]

Julian Assange is in a UK prison awaiting resolution of a extradition order from the US to face trumped up espionage charges.

Powerful story on the ABC on the fight his wife and family have undertaken to save his life. IMV this is the time for the Albanese Government to bring Julian back home.

Julian Assange's wife Stella Moris reveals how they raise children together while he is in jail waiting an extradition decision​

By Stella Moris
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago

Stella Moris says she fears that if her husband Julian Assange is extradited to the US to face charges, her children will lose access to their father.(Supplied: Gabriel Shipton)
Share this article



My Australian husband Julian Assange is fighting for his life from within the confines of a three-by-two-metre cell in Britain’s harshest prison, Belmarsh.

The US has accused him of espionage as a result of his work with WikiLeaks in 2010-2011 and wants to extradite him to face court.
If his extradition goes ahead, Julian faces a maximum 175-year prison sentence. As his wife, I fear he will be buried in the deepest, darkest corner of the US prison system until he dies.

During another extradition hearing last year a UK magistrate blocked Julian's transfer to the US over fears of "oppressive" conditions that could drive him to take his life.

On July 3, Julian turns 51. It will be the fourth year he has spent his birthday alone in a cell, without conviction.

'Our nest in the razor wire': How Julian Assange, his wife Stella and their children seek moments of joy within prison walls

I don’t need to explain to Gabriel and Max the reality of Belmarsh prison where we go to visit their father. They live it, writes Stella Moris.

www.abc.net.au

 

[mullokintyre]

so, that great bastion of western adherence to equality and the law allows someone to languish for four years in prison without even charging him with a crime, much less actually convicting him.
next time we hear crap about repressive non western regimeslike China, South Korea or Russia, just look at the assange case to see the gross hypocrisy displayed.
Assange might be a narcissistic absolutist dick head, but if that was the critera for putting people in jail, a good percentage of the pipulation would be joining him.
An absolute disgrace.
Mick

 

[rederob]

Governments own the resources, they give companies the rights to extract them and then sell them for a profit. If there was no government ownership they could not require a reserve like WA does.

That's why it's called "regulation."
Nothing prevents a government from extracting and distributing their resources.
However, they generally "permit" others to "own" what they extract on conditions they set. Some conditions are pre-ordained, such as royalty entitlement. Or, in the case of WA, a reserve allocation that can be exercised if needed.

My earlier link to Morrison's 2021 "agreement" showed it to be a paper tiger. As a result, we now have to rely on a trigger that only gets us gas from 1 January 2023, rather than now when we need it. @Smurf1976 posted a road map to get us over the present hump, but it's not a map that sees us into our energy future. Hopefully Labor's meetings with industry set them on a course that does that better than the COALition.

 

[sptrawler]

Neither WA nor the feds own what has been extracted from the ground once permitted.
I can't make it any clearer!

If they did, then once extracted either government - assuming your concept of ownership - could sell it. That does not happen.
You have confused the ability to attract royalties from what is extracted, with actual ownership.

Don't make yourself look more bizarre, of course they own it, Royal Dutch Shell pay the Government for the right to extract it and on sell it.
If the Government didn't own it, Shell wouldn't have to pay Royalties to take it.
The Government isn't in the oil and gas business, so they sell the rights to the company to extract and on sell the gas, while the Government takes a percentage cut on the volume. It's a simple business transaction, what you have going on in your head is completely beyond me.

Same as the Government owned Telstra, then they sold it, now they don't own it.
If the Government wanted to get into the oil and gas business, they could do so, then they would get all the money from the sale of the product, like they do with Snowy Hydro.
Instead they sell the rights to Exon, Woodside, Shell etc to develop the gas extraction infrastructure and the Government gets a cut of the sales and the associated tax through Royalties, wages, profits etc.
A royalty payment is a payment made by one party to another that owns a particular asset, for the right to ongoing use of that asset.

Keep the narrative going, you will give yourself a migraine.

 

[rederob]

Don't make yourself look more bizarre, of course they own it, Royal Dutch Shell pay the Government for the right to extract it and on sell it.
If the Government didn't own it, Shell wouldn't have to pay Royalties to take it.

The government permits extraction.
It has no idea what is under the surface, so regulates the use of the land or sea area in question.
If they knew what was there in the first place they would sell it at a fair price. But they don't, and they don't.
Why is there a problem?
Because the permitting arrangements (or regulations) confer ownership of what is found to the party who sought the permit. That's the practicality of the matter, and it's why it's important to ensure we don't give away what we need.
It's a bit like the concept of Native Title which similarly does not confer ownership of what is extracted.

The Government isn't in the oil and gas business, so they sell the rights to the company to extract and on sell the gas, while the Government takes a percentage cut on the volume. It's a simple business transaction, what you have going on in your head is completely beyond me.

That's not how it works. The government permits commerce to occur. There is no guarantee oil or gas will be found. And as I said, nothing stops a government being in the oil and gas business if it wants to.

Did you not realise your post claimed the government owned what was extracted, or do you not understand what you write?

 

[SirRumpole]

Did you not realise your post claimed the government owned what was extracted, or do you not understand what you write?

Do you accept that the government OWNS resources that are in the ground ?

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Julian Assange is in a UK prison awaiting resolution of a extradition order from the US to face trumped up espionage charges.

Powerful story on the ABC on the fight his wife and family have undertaken to save his life. IMV this is the time for the Albanese Government to bring Julian back home.

Julian Assange's wife Stella Moris reveals how they raise children together while he is in jail waiting an extradition decision​

By Stella Moris
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago
View attachment 142659
Stella Moris says she fears that if her husband Julian Assange is extradited to the US to face charges, her children will lose access to their father.(Supplied: Gabriel Shipton)
Share this article



My Australian husband Julian Assange is fighting for his life from within the confines of a three-by-two-metre cell in Britain’s harshest prison, Belmarsh.

The US has accused him of espionage as a result of his work with WikiLeaks in 2010-2011 and wants to extradite him to face court.
If his extradition goes ahead, Julian faces a maximum 175-year prison sentence. As his wife, I fear he will be buried in the deepest, darkest corner of the US prison system until he dies.

During another extradition hearing last year a UK magistrate blocked Julian's transfer to the US over fears of "oppressive" conditions that could drive him to take his life.

On July 3, Julian turns 51. It will be the fourth year he has spent his birthday alone in a cell, without conviction.

'Our nest in the razor wire': How Julian Assange, his wife Stella and their children seek moments of joy within prison walls

I don’t need to explain to Gabriel and Max the reality of Belmarsh prison where we go to visit their father. They live it, writes Stella Moris.

www.abc.net.au

Mr. Albanese has enough on his plate without having to get involved with bringing Julian Assange back to his home, Magnetic Island, a little piece of paradise which one can see from the roof of the hotel.

Speaking of which I was recently on the roof of the hotel helping to fix the Foxtel transponder thingo with an older tradie, and I decided to start a geopolitical conversation with him, and as we could see Maggie Island from the roof and I thought young Julian would be a good place to start.

I began by an exposition of the dialectic that Julian through his work has saved many lives, but it unfortunately has led to the loss of some. I further compared his incarceration at Belmarsh with his antics at the Ecuadorean Embassy. The embassy of that enlightened country is close to one of my old watering holes, The Zetland Arms, which has a larger public bar area than the embassy.

So he has suffered and has relieved suffering and caused suffering, I said.

I posited that Albo could call a referendum confined to the good burghers and matrons of Magnetic Island to decide.

Given the sensitive nature of young Julian's relationship with some of our largest military and economic partners, I would surmise that Albo may decide against this as many of the inhabitants of the island are barking mad, New Agers on Zimmer frames, and others, and may vote to repatriate him, I said.

The tradie nodded.

I digress. So the tradie sat down on the roof, took some chop chop from his hiviz and thumbed a Rollie. He then said.

" And who the f**k is Jeremy Sanjeev when he is at home? "

gg

 

[sptrawler]

@rederob
If the Government didn't own the resource after the exploration license was issued, they would not be able to negotiate royalties and reserve quotas if a resource is discovered on the exploration lease. Once a resource is identified the conditions of extraction and regulations are brokered.
As happened with Allan Carpenter in W.A, when the agreement to extract the gas was being negotiated, Carpenter demanded a reservation of 15% for W.A, if the Government didn't own the gas, the company would have said get stuffed.
They tried that and Carpenter said, thanks for coming and finding the gas, now you can sod off, the company relented and paid the royalties and agreed to the gas reservation.

I can't understand what you are on about, if as you say the company owned the gas they could tell the Government to get stuffed it is our gas.
You are certainly getting yourself confused with your spin.

 

[rederob]

Do you accept that the government OWNS resources that are in the ground ?

Yes, as I have only posted about what is extracted from a land area, and all land use is regulated.

@sptrawler seems to have a problem with who owns whatever is extracted, as the permit (or whatever name is chosen) confers title of the mineral to the permit holder. The permit can have any number of conditions, as @sptrawler notes in the WA agreement.

I have long held the view that Australia is giving away its mineral wealth for bugger all return, and we need smarter legislative provisions so that we don't get screwed over and end up having to pay a lot more tax. Recent Queensland deals on royalties have been negotiated commercial in confidence, and this is is not tenable in a democracy.

... if as you say the company owned the gas they could tell the Government to get stuffed it is our gas.

The company obtained their permit with conditions so, as in the WA case, they will have understood the caveats to title.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, as I have only posted about what is extracted from a land area, and all land use is regulated.

@sptrawler seems to have a problem with who owns whatever is extracted, as the permit (or whatever name is chosen) confers title of the mineral to the permit holder. The permit can have any number of conditions, as @sptrawler notes in the WA agreement.

I have long held the view that Australia is giving away its mineral wealth for bugger all return, and we need smarter legislative provisions so that we don't get screwed over and end up having to pay a lot more tax. Recent Queensland deals on royalties have been negotiated commercial in confidence, and this is is not tenable in a democracy.

The company obtained their permit with conditions so, as in the WA case, they will have understood the caveats to title.

Yes , put an export tax on coal, iron ore, gas, lithium, bauxite and use the proceeds to upgrade our energy infrastructure.

 

[UMike]

The Albanese government is gonna be a major disappointment and will barely last one term.​

 

[rederob]

Mr. Albanese has enough on his plate without having to get involved with bringing Julian Assange back to his home, Magnetic Island, a little piece of paradise which one can see from the roof of the hotel.

Speaking of which I was recently on the roof of the hotel helping to fix the Foxtel transponder thingo with an older tradie, and I decided to start a geopolitical conversation with him, and as we could see Maggie Island from the roof and I thought young Julian would be a good place to start.

I began by an exposition of the dialectic that Julian through his work has saved many lives, but it unfortunately has led to the loss of some. I further compared his incarceration at Belmarsh with his antics at the Ecuadorean Embassy. The embassy of that enlightened country is close to one of my old watering holes, The Zetland Arms, which has a larger public bar area than the embassy.

So he has suffered and has relieved suffering and caused suffering, I said.

I posited that Albo could call a referendum confined to the good burghers and matrons of Magnetic Island to decide.

Given the sensitive nature of young Julian's relationship with some of our largest military and economic partners, I would surmise that Albo may decide against this as many of the inhabitants of the island are barking mad, New Agers on Zimmer frames, and others, and may vote to repatriate him, I said.

The tradie nodded.

I digress. So the tradie sat down on the roof, took some chop chop from his hiviz and thumbed a Rollie. He then said.

" And who the f**k is Jeremy Sanjeev when he is at home? "

gg

I am still struggling with your capitalsation of Rollie.

Anyway, it's about time the fortifications of Maggie got an upgrade as this island's strategic position in the Great Barrier Reef should be our Maginot line. Enemies venturing further south will die from disappointment at what they will find, and deserve to be spared from that fate.

 

[Ferret]

I really don't like Bowen.

Credit for arranging the meeting on the energy situation, but why does he have to play the blame game taking digs at the previous government? Just get on with trying to fix things.

Such a politician.

 

[SirRumpole]

I really don't like Bowen.

Credit for arranging the meeting on the energy situation, but why does he have to play the blame game taking digs at the previous government? Just get on with trying to fix things.

Such a politician.

Hes right about the former government, but the buck now stops with him.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

I must admit that I am very impressed thus far with Albo and his government's handling of the Foreign Affairs portfolio.

He and Penny Wong work well together and his dealings with world leaders will hopefully lead to a safer Australia.

There will be tough times ahead domestically, with rising interest rates and inflation, house prices and mortgages.

A tough independent and retrospective Federal Anti-Corruption Commission is long overdue.

gg

 

[SirRumpole]

I must admit that I am very impressed thus far with Albo and his government's handling of the Foreign Affairs portfolio.

He and Penny Wong work well together and his dealings with world leaders will hopefully lead to a safer Australia.

There will be tough times ahead domestically, with rising interest rates and inflation, house prices and mortgages.

A tough independent and retrospective Federal Anti-Corruption Commission is long overdue.

gg

I wonder if an CAC will investigate the departure of some Ministers to cushy Board jobs in companies they were supposed to be overseeing in their portfolios ?

Could that be called corruption ? Some ICAC members may think so.

 

[sptrawler]

I wonder if an CAC will investigate the departure of some Ministers to cushy Board jobs in companies they were supposed to be overseeing in their portfolios ?

Could that be called corruption ? Some ICAC members may think so.

The good thing is, there is talk it will have retrospective powers to 2007.

 

[sptrawler]

It's good to Bill is coming out of the blocks at a gallop, some Centrelink programmes to get a makeover, thankfully with computers all the old stationary doesn't have to be replaced.
I have a hard hat at home, that has three different company logo's on it and it was a Government dept first thing the boss has to do is rename the dept.
At last, the unemployed will have a sympathetic Govt.

A new points-based system has replaced Jobactive. How will it affect thousands of job seekers?

Jobactive — the Australian government's main employment services program — has been replaced by a new service called Workforce Australia Employment Services Provider. Here's how the change will affect your job search.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
From July 4, Jobactive — the Australian government's main employment services program — will be replaced by a new service called Workforce Australia Employment Services Provider.

If you've been on Jobactive while receiving the JobSeeker Payment, you'll soon be moved to the new program.

Workforce Australia has begun contacting participants about how they'll be impacted and what they need to do.

As a jobseeker, what will my obligations be?​

There are new changes to the way jobseekers will have to complete mutual obligations.

A new Points Based Activation System (PBAS) has been introduced, which will replace the current system where jobseekers are required to submit 20 job applications a month.

Through the PBAS, jobseekers will need to accumulate 100 points a month in order to continue receiving payments.

How do I earn points?​

You earn points by doing the following tasks:

• Completing job applications
• Attending interviews
• Completing online learning modules

Here are the points values for some tasks:

Task	Points earned on completion
Job application	5 points
Online learning modules	5 points (maximum of 5 points per month)
Attending a job interview	20 points

 

[mullokintyre]

It's good to Bill is coming out of the blocks at a gallop, some Centrelink programmes to get a makeover, thankfully with computers all the old stationary doesn't have to be replaced.
I have a hard hat at home, that has three different company logo's on it and it was a Government dept first thing the boss has to do is rename the dept.
At last, the unemployed will have a sympathetic Govt.

A new points-based system has replaced Jobactive. How will it affect thousands of job seekers?

Jobactive — the Australian government's main employment services program — has been replaced by a new service called Workforce Australia Employment Services Provider. Here's how the change will affect your job search.

www.abc.net.au

From the article:
From July 4, Jobactive — the Australian government's main employment services program — will be replaced by a new service called Workforce Australia Employment Services Provider.

If you've been on Jobactive while receiving the JobSeeker Payment, you'll soon be moved to the new program.

Workforce Australia has begun contacting participants about how they'll be impacted and what they need to do.

As a jobseeker, what will my obligations be?​

There are new changes to the way jobseekers will have to complete mutual obligations.

A new Points Based Activation System (PBAS) has been introduced, which will replace the current system where jobseekers are required to submit 20 job applications a month.

Through the PBAS, jobseekers will need to accumulate 100 points a month in order to continue receiving payments.

How do I earn points?​

You earn points by doing the following tasks:

• Completing job applications
• Attending interviews
• Completing online learning modules

Here are the points values for some tasks:

Task	Points earned on completion
Job application	5 points
Online learning modules	5 points (maximum of 5 points per month)
Attending a job interview	20 points

Puts new meaning to the concept of "points scoring".
Mick