The Albanese government

[SirRumpole]

Geesh, how do you get away with this?

View attachment 162725
Peter Dutton has taken aim at the Covid-19 inquiry, which excludes unilateral decisions by state and territory governments, saying the inquiry terms “didn’t make any sense”.

“… The Prime Minister owes it to the Australian people to have a proper understanding of what happened during the course of (Covid-19) – good and bad – by every level of government … how do we expect to go into the next pandemic not understanding what had happened in the previous one?”

Mr Dutton agrees the Covid-19 inquiry is a “protection racket” for Daniel Andrews and Annastacia Palaszczuk and will not correctly examine the pandemic.

“If there’s nothing to hide here, then why not let the sun shine? I think the Prime Minister has made a deliberate decision to put the interests of Labor premiers ahead of our national interest and that is a shameful act from a Prime Minister who has been elected by the Australian people to provide support and to lead the whole nation,” the Opposition Leader said.

“I think most people will be quite stunned to understand that premiers who were responsible for lockdowns, the very significant number of deaths in Victoria, the mental health issues that still linger today in Victoria and elsewhere, are as a result of Daniel Andrews’ decisions – and he would be excluded from consideration in this inquiry.

“I think Australians are smart enough to smell a rat here and the Prime Minister has made a decision which is not in our national interest and goes against what he promised to the Australian public and its obviously been rolled out this week as a giant distraction to the disasters around energy and the voice that the Prime Minister is presiding over as well.”

There were Liberal governments in NSW and South Australia at the time if I remember correctly.

 

[sptrawler]

There were Liberal governments in NSW and South Australia at the time if I remember correctly.

Everything should be checked, some good decisions would have been made, some bad decisions would have been made.
Learning from them is the trick, one thing for sure, it is bound to happen again.
As usual, the very thing you don't check, will be what bites you in the ar$e, ask anyone who has commissioned any equipment or project.
The problem is for the Government, there is a lot of massaging of issues going on, people notice.

 

[mullokintyre]

There were Liberal governments in NSW and South Australia at the time if I remember correctly.

And also in Tasmania.
Mick

 

[Sean K]

There were Liberal governments in NSW and South Australia at the time if I remember correctly.

They all need to be held to account. I daresay, the States were the ones that were responsible for most of the pain suffered by individuals. How can this not warrant a Royal Commission, no matter how long it takes?

 

[Sean K]

Everything should be checked, some good decisions would have been made, some bad decisions would have been made.
Learning from them is the trick, one thing for sure, it is bound to happen again.
As usual, the very thing you don't check, will be what bites you in the ar$e, ask anyone who has commissioned any equipment or project.
The problem is for the Government, there is a lot of massaging of issues going on, people notice.

100%, this will happen again. It might be in another 100 years but the government of that day will need to be able to pull out the Royal Commission into Covid 19 and say, right - here's the lessons and here's the recommended game plan.

The one thing the Army does well, is after action reviews. Every time you step into the field on exercises or operations a report is written and recommendations are made. Normally in the form of; sustain, improve and fix. For something so significant that affected the entire country there's no excuses for the entire thing being analysed head to toe. They should have put an ex-Army General in charge of this.

 

[Smurf1976]

There were Liberal governments in NSW and South Australia at the time if I remember correctly.

My view is the SA state government, Liberal, committed the single worst act of the lot by locking residents out of the state permanently during the crisis.

That in my view isn't something the Australian Government ought be looking at. It's beyond that, it's a human rights violation and ought be treated as such.

Didn't affect me or anyone I know but I do think it's a case where compensation ought be paid and by that I mean serious compensation not some token amount. It was a case of government not simply failing the people but actively turning against them.

 

[wayneL]

My view is the SA state government, illiberal, committed the single worst act of the lot by locking residents out of the state permanently during the crisis.

I just made a slight correction to your post

 

[SirRumpole]

Tough decision for Tanya.

Ignore climate change and anger the Greens and approve more mines, or lose revenue , jobs and votes.

Despite a promise to escape the climate 'naughty corner', the government just scored a win against environmentalists​

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-11/living-wonders-climate-cases-federal-court-analysis/102962176.

 

[frugal.rock]

Live sheep export banned.
Another brilliant idea, not.

Farmers say live export ban will jeopardise trade relationship as prices continue to fall

As sheep prices continue to plummet across the country, more than 20 agricultural organisations have co-signed a letter to the prime minister, urging the government not to ban live exports of the animal.

www.abc.net.au

Low confidence and prices in sheep industry hurting other businesses, farmers say

Farmers in Western Australia say uncertainty over live sheep exports is contributing to plummeting prices and will soon lead to job cuts.

www.abc.net.au

 

[farmerge]

Live sheep export banned.
Another brilliant idea, not.

Farmers say live export ban will jeopardise trade relationship as prices continue to fall

As sheep prices continue to plummet across the country, more than 20 agricultural organisations have co-signed a letter to the prime minister, urging the government not to ban live exports of the animal.

www.abc.net.au

Low confidence and prices in sheep industry hurting other businesses, farmers say

Farmers in Western Australia say uncertainty over live sheep exports is contributing to plummeting prices and will soon lead to job cuts.

www.abc.net.au

Sheep farmers here in WA don't count to the bum polishers in Canberra as most of the live export is from here in WA.

 

[SirRumpole]

Jim Chalmers said Aussie workers are $3,700 better off under Labor.

Well, not quite Jim...

We fact checked Jim Chalmers on whether workers are $3,700 better off under Labor. Here's what we found

Treasurer Jim Chalmers says the average full-time worker is $3,700 a year better off under Labor. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

 

[farmerge]

Oh rubbering figures a

Jim Chalmers said Aussie workers are $3,700 better off under Labor.

Well, not quite Jim...

We fact checked Jim Chalmers on whether workers are $3,700 better off under Labor. Here's what we found

Treasurer Jim Chalmers says the average full-time worker is $3,700 a year better off under Labor. Is that correct? RMIT ABC Fact Check investigates.

www.abc.net.au

Uh oh Rubbery figures are once again upon us. This has to be basic Pollie Speak for the masses.

 

[sptrawler]

Are we starting to see the early indicators, of companies quietly shutting down operations that will cost too much to meet the carbon targets that have been set? Best to get in early and shut them down, before penalties and public backlash on job losses increases.

It will be interesting to see if a lot of companies elect to close down their processing plants and export the raw materials overseas for processing, unintended consequences maybe.
They close down, they emit less carbon, win win for the company and the Government, except more skilled jobs are gone never to return.
Oh well that's life.

‘This is a fight for Mt Isa’: Glencore to close copper mines after 60 years, placing 1,200 jobs at risk

Company says famed Mt Isa Mines asset is no longer viable due to low ore grades and challenging geological conditions

www.theguardian.com

WA Premier ‘disappointed’ Alcoa mulling closure Kwinana refinery

The WA Premier thinks local workers deserve better than the US miner telling its investors one thing, and the WA government another.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

Are we starting to see the early indicators, of companies quietly shutting down operations that will cost too much to meet the carbon targets that have been set? Best to get in early and shut them down, before penalties and public backlash on job losses increases.

It will be interesting to see if a lot of companies elect to close down their processing plants and export the raw materials overseas for processing, unintended consequences maybe.
They close down, they emit less carbon, win win for the company and the Government, except more skilled jobs are gone never to return.
Oh well that's life.

‘This is a fight for Mt Isa’: Glencore to close copper mines after 60 years, placing 1,200 jobs at risk

Company says famed Mt Isa Mines asset is no longer viable due to low ore grades and challenging geological conditions

www.theguardian.com

WA Premier ‘disappointed’ Alcoa mulling closure Kwinana refinery

The WA Premier thinks local workers deserve better than the US miner telling its investors one thing, and the WA government another.

www.watoday.com.au

This situation was going to arise, regardless of carbon targets.
The mines were never going to last forever, just like all the other mines, oil and gas wells.
Mick

 

[IFocus]

“The studies revealed the remaining mineral resources are not economically viable due to low ore grades and areas where, due to geological conditions, safe extraction can’t be achieved using current technology, this all coupled with ageing infrastructure.”

 

[sptrawler]

This situation was going to arise, regardless of carbon targets.
The mines were never going to last forever, just like all the other mines, oil and gas wells.
Mick

“The studies revealed the remaining mineral resources are not economically viable due to low ore grades and areas where, due to geological conditions, safe extraction can’t be achieved using current technology, this all coupled with ageing infrastructure.”

Absolutely, however if a plant like Alcoa's Kwinana plant and Mt Isa's smelter or processing plant is going to cost a considererable amount to upgrade or refurbish to meet the 2030 emission limits, it would make a lot more sense to close them than spend the money.
Also as I mentioned, a lot of process plants will be in the same boat, therefore management will be doing a cost base analysis on whether processing the ore is viable.
Just simple good management and most companies that process raw materials will be doing it at the moment, especially when you add the elevated cost of energy into the equation. It may indeed in many cases, be a lot cheaper to export the ore for processing.
It will be interesting to see how many companies accelerate the closures, as is happening with coal fired power stations, there is no point running them at a loss due to adverse operating conditions.

 

[IFocus]

Absolutely, however if a plant like Alcoa's Kwinana plant and Mt Isa's smelter or processing plant is going to cost a considererable amount to upgrade or refurbish to meet the 2030 emission limits, it would make a lot more sense to close them than spend the money.
Also as I mentioned, a lot of process plants will be in the same boat, therefore management will be doing a cost base analysis on whether processing the ore is viable.
Just simple good management and most companies that process raw materials will be doing it at the moment, especially when you add the elevated cost of energy into the equation. It may indeed in many cases, be a lot cheaper to export the ore for processing.
It will be interesting to see how many companies accelerate the closures, as is happening with coal fired power stations, there is no point running them at a loss due to adverse operating conditions.

The only thing keeping Kwinana going is / was political pressure it was uneconomical 20 to 30 years ago and thats from insiders.

 

[Smurf1976]

This situation was going to arise, regardless of carbon targets.
The mines were never going to last forever, just like all the other mines, oil and gas wells.

The mines won't but there's no reason why a processing plant, well located and run, shouldn't be viable on an ongoing basis.

Tasmania has three major metal smelters, one of which is the third largest of its type on the planet, with two of those facilities having always used 100% ore mined outside the state and the other refining about 30% local / 70% imported ore.

Why? It can be explained in one word - hydro.

Energy, not local raw materials, is the key to making metal refining and smelting work economically. Always has been the case and probably always will be.

Same reason Qld bauxite is shipped down to Gladstone for refining. Same reason for smelters in NSW and Vic processing ore that has never been mined locally. All comes down to energy.

Likewise same reason why alumina refining was abandoned in the NT despite being right next to the mine. Because no cheap energy to do it with, the energy source was fuel oil, so it was game over.

The elephant in the room for a great many industries in Australia going forward is energy supply and the ability of governments to "kick the can" on that one is rapidly running out.

That's the true reason that's lead to Australia importing bricks and even cement. It's not that we don't have the clay or limestone, the problem is firing the kiln.

In a broader political sense, the big problem is Australia's lack of a viable long term economic base. Digging holes and selling dirt isn't going to work long term, not least because the profitable ore is finite.

 

[sptrawler]

The only thing keeping Kwinana going is / was political pressure it was uneconomical 20 to 30 years ago and thats from insiders.

Yes quite a few of my mates work there an upgrade was done on the Kwinana plant a few years ago, but there is talk of shutting it all down and only keeping Kwinana as an export terminal for the bauxite. That would have a big effect on Waroona, Pinjarra and Mandurah.
Hopefully they keep Pinjarra and Wagerup going.
I would think Kwinana is toast .
As I said any and all process plants will be weighing up the cost of reducing emissions and whether it is worth the expense, especially if they buy in process energy.

 

[Smurf1976]

I would think Kwinana is toast .

In a broader sense there's an awful lot going wrong at the moment.

Housing, inflation, energy, wars overseas, industry closing, rising bond yields, wobbly stock markets, full time jobs seem to be in decline, etc.

Some of this is beyond the control of the Australian government but some of it's within its power to deal with if it's up to the task.

I say that having serious doubts that either side is actually up to the task.