The Abbott Government

Whiskers · 26 November 2013

trainspotter said:
Play the ball and not the man. Abbott did not orchestrate this mess, Rudd was in power at the time so one can safely assume (for the nth time this has been said) that Tony clearly has nothing to apologise for !

We shall await for the SBY response to PM Abbots letter outlining the reason behind the Rudd governments decision to spy on "our dear friend".

Try this on for size!

Look what News Ltd has revealed.

Spying row centres on intelligence 'shared' with Jakarta
by: Paul Maley and Joe Kelly From: The Australian November 26, 2013 12:00AM

INTELLIGENCE gathered by Australian spies operating from the embassy in Jakarta , which is at the heart of the most serious diplomatic rift between the two countries in more than a decade, would have been shared with Indonesia once it had been "sanitised". Earlier this month, it emerged Australia had used its network of overseas embassies to conceal eavesdropping equipment capable of intercepting cellphone and radio traffic in host countries, including Indonesia. The country's top expert on signals intelligence, Des Ball, said it was his understanding that some of the intelligence gathered as part of this US-led project, known as Stateroom, would have been passed on to Indonesia, in what he said was a "major exception" to the protocol of never sharing information with a target country. - See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati....eTxESzo1.dpuf

So News has exposed, as I suspected and mentioned from the start, that the spying was conducted out of the Aus embasy. That makes it ILLEGALY obtained by our spies, and this report also confirms my earlier estimation that it was likely US led from the Howard, Bush coalition of the willing war on terrorism era.

Quite likely that Rudd and Gillard were not aware it was going on... but Abbott did. This was his little secret weapon to get the inside info about smuggler activity and Indo politicians, all dressed up in a military operation Sovereign Borders to keep it all hushed up with the media blackout ... but it backfired in his face.

drsmith · 26 November 2013

Whiskers said:
Hey doc, why would you contaminate an otherwise reasonable argument with comment from someone like Andrew Bolt?

You need to get more sleep Whiskers. The tip on Andrew Bolt's blog was spot on.

The latest Essential Report (26/11/2013) has the Coalition at 53% 2PP.

http://essentialvision.com.au/category/essentialreport

IFocus · 26 November 2013

AAA said:
Do you think SBY was embarrassed. I think he was. I think Abbott said something along the lines of he regretted the embarrassment cause. Maybe he could have said he regretted the distress it caused.

You suggest Abbott should have called SBY. Other Labor figures have said he should have followed Obama's example. Well Obama didn't call Merkel. She called him.

The problem for Abbott is there is no perfect solution for this. Do you think Abbott should have rung, confessed all and promised we will never do it again.

It would be a fairly meaningless gesture to call SBY and say sorry but we are still going to spy on you.

We could agree to not spy on him but where do we stop. Do we not spy on any members of his government, miltary ect.

Add to this we don't know what else Snowden is exposing. Are we going to have to fess up and promise to not spy on anyone else.

Abbott took the time honoured position and refused to talk about our intelligence matters. I believe as do many others this was the best policy. It is not a perfect policy as their are downsides and risks. However I don't see a perfect risk free policy.

SBY has backed us then we get busted (publicly) tapping his and his wife's phone.

If he is our friend then Abbott needed to give him a face saving message immediately proving he is a friend this is not just for SBY but for future Indonesian leaders believing Australian politicians wont hang them out to dry.

But as you say we don't know what else is going to pop up from Snowden.

IFocus · 26 November 2013

On a different note nice to see the Coalition reach a new high on hypocrisy with the education funding back down then blame Labor.

Say one thing do another certainly a behavioural pattern with this incoherent ramble.

sails · 26 November 2013

IFocus said:
SBY has backed us then we get busted (publicly) tapping his and his wife's phone.

If he is our friend then Abbott needed to give him a face saving message immediately proving he is a friend this is not just for SBY but for future Indonesian leaders believing Australian politicians wont hang them out to dry.

But as you say we don't know what else is going to pop up from Snowden.

Abbott wasn't in power when his phone was tapped. Agree, who knows what else Rudd and Gillard did that will come out from Snowden.

Sadly, labor supporters seem to give the illusion that the phone tapping on 2009 is all Abbott's doing rather than taking responsibility for what went on under their watch.

trainspotter · 26 November 2013

IFocus said:
On a different note nice to see the Coalition reach a new high on hypocrisy with the education funding back down then blame Labor.

Say one thing do another certainly a behavioural pattern with this incoherent ramble.

Polly want a cracker?

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has refused to answer questions about the funding shortfall.

[Journalist:] "The Government is saying that the reason they've got to go back to the drawing board is because some of the agreements that were signed by you weren't done correctly and, in fact, that you short-funded the schools agreements by more than one billion dollars. What do you have to say to that?"

[Shorten:] "Tony Abbott promised before the election that they would be a government of no surprises and no excuses."

[Journalist:] "So, if Labor had been elected, would you have cut education funding by more than one billion dollars?"

[Shorten:] "Labor is the party that put needs-based education on the map."

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/11/26/government-heralds-new-schools-funding-model

sails · 26 November 2013

IFocus said:
On a different note nice to see the Coalition reach a new high on hypocrisy with the education funding back down then blame Labor.

Say one thing do another certainly a behavioural pattern with this incoherent ramble.

I believe there is a problem with $1.2 billion shortfall in school funding which happened under labor not long before the election.

Have labor deliberately left mess after mess for the coalition so they can throw stones because of the very messes they caused and left for someone else to clean up?

EDIT - see you got to it first TS while I was typing my post...

banco · 26 November 2013

sails said:
I believe there is a problem with $1.2 billion shortfall in school funding which happened under labor not long before the election.

Have labor deliberately left mess after mess for the coalition so they can throw stones because of the very messes they caused and left for someone else to clean up?

EDIT - see you got to it first TS while I was typing my post...

"In fact, what happened was the former government was unable to get the conservative governments in Western Australia, Queensland and the Northern Territory to agree to a new funding deal. It had allocated $1.2 billion to funding agreements with these three jurisdictions in its economic statement but they had declined to sign up. Therefore, the money was no longer relevant by the time of the pre-election fiscal and economic outlook. This was widely reported at the time, as was the fact that some, but not all schools, were covered by funding agreements on election day."

http://www.afr.com/p/national/government_of_no_surprises_rewrites_YFgxK864VRKFbRIi44ovzN

noco · 26 November 2013

sails said:
I believe there is a problem with $1.2 billion shortfall in school funding which happened under labor not long before the election.

Have labor deliberately left mess after mess for the coalition so they can throw stones because of the very messes they caused and left for someone else to clean up?

EDIT - see you got to it first TS while I was typing my post...

You don't think for one minute that Shorten would admit to his mistakes and **** up on the funding do you?

What is new with the Labor Party when it comes to implimenting these projects. They wouldn't know how to run a chook raffle in a pub.

IFocus · 26 November 2013

sails said:
Abbott wasn't in power when his phone was tapped. Agree, who knows what else Rudd and Gillard did that will come out from Snowden.

Sadly, labor supporters seem to give the illusion that the phone tapping on 2009 is all Abbott's doing rather than taking responsibility for what went on under their watch.

No one and I mean no one is running that story from Labor or their supporters there is no illusion.

The issue is Abbotts dismissive and lack of urgency to respond.

wayneL · 26 November 2013

IFocus said:
No one and I mean no one is running that story from Labor or their supporters there is no illusion.

The issue is Abbotts dismissive and lack of urgency to respond.

Camel Dung. The Abbott response has been correct. The only response that has been inappropriate is the leftists zeal to hang it off Abbott.

Oh, and one of your comrades, a person who still has a man-crush on Rudd, a member of ASF, has tried to claim Abbott is directly responsible...

The left's behaviour over this has been absolutely reprehensible.

Team Australia? pfffft

AAA · 26 November 2013

I would like Abbott to ask the following question of Shorten or Tanya P in question time.

Why under the Labor government did our intell people listen in on SBY's phone calls. If you feel there was a valid reason and given normal government practice not to discuss intelligence gathering with the target of such activity you are excused from answering this question. How about now STFU and let us deal with it the best we can.

If there was no valid reason you owe SBY and the Australian people an explanation why this debacle occured on your watch.

drsmith · 26 November 2013

IFocus said:
On a different note nice to see the Coalition reach a new high on hypocrisy with the education funding back down then blame Labor.

Say one thing do another certainly a behavioural pattern with this incoherent ramble.

I have no doubt Christopher Pyne rubbed his hands together with glee when he saw Labor's funding shortfall.

You Beauty.

It's clear Labor was never going to honour Gonski as a national scheme at the very least. Kevin Rudd even went as far as dumping the Gonski label from the scheme as part of his re-election campaign. It was Goneski not only under the Coalition as it stands now, but also under Kevin Rudd and the funding and name changes are proof of that.

banco · 26 November 2013

drsmith said:
I have no doubt Christopher Pyne rubbed his hands together with glee when he saw Labor's funding shortfall.

You Beauty.

It's clear Labor was never going to honour Gonski as a national scheme at the very least. Kevin Rudd even went as far as dumping the Gonski label from the scheme as part of his re-election campaign. It was Goneski not only under the Coalition as it stands now, but also under Kevin Rudd and the funding and name changes are proof of that.

I'll try to explain this to you very slowly: Labor didn't make provision in its economic statement for funding it as a national scheme because WA, NT and Queensland refused to sign up. Hence it couldn't be a national scheme.

drsmith · 26 November 2013

banco said:
I'll try to explain this to you very slowly: Labor didn't make provision in its economic statement for funding it as a national scheme because WA, NT and Queensland refused to sign up. Hence it couldn't be a national scheme.

We'll chalk that up as another success for the great negotiator that was Julia Gillard.

Where does it sit with another one of her negotiating triumphs, the mining tax or better still, her leadership of the Labor Party till the 2013 election ?

If it's not a national scheme then it was a failure. That after all was a primary objective. Funding could have still at least been reflected in the federal budget even where agreements weren't yet reached with some states.

banco · 26 November 2013

drsmith said:
We'll chalk that up as another success for the great negotiator that was Julia Gillard.

Where does it sit with another one of her negotiating triumphs, the mining tax ?

If it's not a national scheme then it was a failure. That after all was a primary objective. Funding could have still at least been reflected in the federal budget even where agreements weren't yet reached with some states.

They knew it wasn't a national scheme when they agreed to stick with it during the election you dummy. It's not like it's news that WA etc. didn't sign up.

drsmith · 26 November 2013

banco said:
They knew it wasn't a national scheme when they agreed to stick with it during the election you dummy. It's not like it's news that WA etc. didn't sign up.

No need to throw names. That adds nothing to the substance of your argument.

WA was part of the Commonwealth of Australia when I last checked, as was the NT and QLD.

So_Cynical · 26 November 2013

Back Flip with triple pike, The Liberals Education Lie.

sails · 26 November 2013

banco said:
They knew it wasn't a national scheme when they agreed to stick with it during the election you dummy. It's not like it's news that WA etc. didn't sign up.

hmmm... just look at where your other three fingers are pointing to find the real dummy...

banco · 26 November 2013

drsmith said:
No need to throw names. That adds nothing to the substance of your argument.

WA was part of the Commonwealth of Australia when I last checked, as was the NT and QLD.

Did they or did they not know prior to the election that WA, NT and Qld hadn't signed up?

The Abbott Government

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