The Abbott Government

Smurf1976 · 30 August 2015

All this fuss about people illegally entering Australia would make a lot more sense if we were actually trying to protect something.

With manufacturing all but dead, 457's displacing local workers, selling vast areas of the country to foreign interests and yet another "free" trade agreement there's not a lot left to protect against in the first place apart from actual real acts of terrorism.

If the aim is to stop terrorists then checking visas on the streets of Melbourne seems an awfully inefficient way to go about it. If someone's not supposed to be here then they could simply choose to not carry any ID. So long as they're not driving, flying or in a pub then that ought not raise any real attention in itself.

The whole concept of checking ID's on the street would only ever identify those who have nothing to hide. Anyone else would simply not carry any ID, right?

I see that Kevin Rudd has been on TV overseas as a guest news anchor. The future for Abbott and Co is more likely to be in comedy I expect.

sptrawler · 31 August 2015

Smurf1976 said:
All this fuss about people illegally entering Australia would make a lot more sense if we were actually trying to protect something.

With manufacturing all but dead, 457's displacing local workers, selling vast areas of the country to foreign interests and yet another "free" trade agreement there's not a lot left to protect against in the first place apart from actual real acts of terrorism.

Maybe you can tell me what company Australia owns smurph?
I normally agree with you completely, but can you tell me where you are going to raise the money, to build the infrastructure to support our lifestyle?

Over here in the West I'm seeing improved process controls, decimating highly skilled process control jobs, it is pretty scary and I'm retired. But a lot of the younger guys, who were laid off 6 months ago are realising how scary it is.

I also realise any capital expenditure to install new industry, is going to be hard to raise with Australian IPO's.

How are we going to fund capital investment in Australia? Or do we just all say who gives a rats, we will just take the Tassie welfare option. It won't work.

IMO the only difference between Liberal and Labor is. one is going to tell you this will hurt, the other will say, this won't hurt.lol

luutzu · 31 August 2015

Smurf1976 said:
All this fuss about people illegally entering Australia would make a lot more sense if we were actually trying to protect something.

With manufacturing all but dead, 457's displacing local workers, selling vast areas of the country to foreign interests and yet another "free" trade agreement there's not a lot left to protect against in the first place apart from actual real acts of terrorism.

If the aim is to stop terrorists then checking visas on the streets of Melbourne seems an awfully inefficient way to go about it. If someone's not supposed to be here then they could simply choose to not carry any ID. So long as they're not driving, flying or in a pub then that ought not raise any real attention in itself.

The whole concept of checking ID's on the street would only ever identify those who have nothing to hide. Anyone else would simply not carry any ID, right?

I see that Kevin Rudd has been on TV overseas as a guest news anchor. The future for Abbott and Co is more likely to be in comedy I expect.

It's not to check for IDs or Visa.. that's just an excuse.

It's to stop and check who you are, who you're with, what you're carrying.

It's a pedestrian version of a random breathe test.

There might be something in the Constitution about presumed innocence and private property, just cause and suspicion and freedom and stuff, so you can't just pull people over whenever you like if they're driving legally. So you introduce random breathe test...

Since you can't pull a person taking a walk for breathe testing, you check his "visa"... then while you're at it, crank up the metadata too.

luutzu · 31 August 2015

sptrawler said:
Maybe you can tell me what company Australia owns smurph?
I normally agree with you completely, but can you tell me where you are going to raise the money, to build the infrastructure to support our lifestyle?

Over here in the West I'm seeing improved process controls, decimating highly skilled process control jobs, it is pretty scary and I'm retired. But a lot of the younger guys, who were laid off 6 months ago are realising how scary it is.

I also realise any capital expenditure to install new industry, is going to be hard to raise with Australian IPO's.

How are we going to fund capital investment in Australia? Or do we just all say who gives a rats, we will just take the Tassie welfare option. It won't work.

IMO the only difference between Liberal and Labor is. one is going to tell you this will hurt, the other will say, this won't hurt.lol

I thought taxation usually do the job?

Apparently our gov't couldn't even name and shame big corp tax dodgers.

Smurf1976 · 31 August 2015

sptrawler said:
Maybe you can tell me what company Australia owns smurph?
I normally agree with you completely, but can you tell me where you are going to raise the money, to build the infrastructure to support our lifestyle?

I follow the points you raise however I don't see how keeping illegal immigrants out will fix them, indeed being seen as anti-immigration may make things worse if it gets to the point of scaring foreigners with $ away.

This "Border Force" checking people on the street is the kind of thing you'd expect as a prank filmed for a TV comedy show, not something that a government would actually do. Amazing.

sptrawler · 31 August 2015

luutzu said:
I thought taxation usually do the job?

Apparently our gov't couldn't even name and shame big corp tax dodgers.

Well taxation can't even pay the welfare bill, let alone anything else.
Maybe we should just give a massive tax break, to everyone who wants to open a food outlet, would you like fries with that.

The government can't even name a shame welfare bludgers, what chance do they have of naming and shaming sophisticated tax dodging companies.:1zhelp:

Give me a break, FW's led by FW's

Maybe when all the chardonay socialists, are on the bones of their ar$e, we might get some sensible discussion.lol

luutzu · 31 August 2015

sptrawler said:
Well taxation can't even pay the welfare bill, let alone anything else.
Maybe we should just give a massive tax break, to everyone who wants to open a food outlet, would you like fries with that.

The government can't even name a shame welfare bludgers, what chance do they have of naming and shaming sophisticated tax dodging companies.:1zhelp:

Give me a break, FW's led by FW's

Maybe when all the chardonay socialists, are on the bones of their ar$e, we might get some sensible discussion.lol

If you tax people and corporations properly you will, and then some.

Not only are those with good tax advisors not paying much tax, most don't even pay the legal amount of tax! And they can get away with it.

Those on welfare are being shamed alright. There will always be those who abuse the system, but for the honest and needy.. why must they be shamed?

I would have thought the shame would be with those in power, with those whose job it is to create economic growth, create jobs so that people do not have to rely on handouts.

A bit rich to fail at your job, force your people onto unemployment lines.. .then make policies that shame them, make it harder for them to receive help.

Not only is that morally bankrupt, it's also bad public policy.

One, it's always easier to help people when they just got into a tough spot. Leaving them there and their situation will get much much worst. Getting worst will either destroy their chances to get out and contribute to society; may also lead them towards crime and other anti-social behaviour - all of which will costs the public much more.

Two, welfare provide a security net for the vulnerable and desperate in society. That not only help the poor, it demonstrate the kind of society we ought to be - to have compassion for each other. That tend to be a good thing.

To make it hard, make it shameful, to imply laziness etc. towards those who need some help... who will that hurt? The criminals, the bastards who will abuse the system... you think they will feel shame or feel bad taking a few extra bucks?

Shaming welfare recipients will only hurt the honest.

But mainly, social security is not just security for the welfare of the poor - it's to secure the wealth of the rich. You remove that pittance of a payment that's between poverty and starvation and soon a large portion of your population will be poor and desperate... when enough of them are in that situation, the state will fall and with it the ruling class will have to flee to their other homes overseas somewhere.

Might sound far-fetched but it's only some 70 years ago that most of map of the world was redrawn. Russian Czars were gone only a bit over 100 years ago, most of European Royalties either became rubber stamps or have their heads handed to them around the same time; China's last Emperor was still alive until the 1980s or something; Vietnam/IndoChina was under the French only some 60 years ago...

---

The problem we have, and it seem to be worldwide, is we have a bunch of politicians who fancy themselves leaders yet does not seem to have read or understand any history... not even those only a few generations ago.

They all tend to dress up to commemorate WW1 and 2, give speeches about freedom and sacrifice and evil Nazis... then head to the Ball or the Opera. You would think with the annual speeches they'd at least wonder what led to those wars and those evils... nope.

Instead of learning that economies fail when wealth is not equitably distributed; societies and gov't collapse when the masses starves and the aristocrats tell them to eat cake and live in their forbidden cities... they systematically removes the safeguards their forefathers were smart enough to put in place just in time to save their country.

Not smart to remove the few circuit breakers that stops periodic uprisings and revolutions while kicking up the wealth disparities that have always ruin economies. Not smart.

This time it's global, and there's plenty of nukes to make it even more exciting.

Going to have my imported beer now What's wrong with VB? They used to be nice, now it's like cheap tea.

noco · 31 August 2015

I believe the government should bring in a flat tax rate of 25% for all and no deduction perks..That would apply to PAYG WORKERS, BUSINESS AND LARGE CORPORATIONS.

Lift the GST to 15% with compensation to pensioners by way of increased payments.

A very simple system without a lot of scrutiny by the Tax department........We would also meed about half the staff in the Taxation Department.

Tisme · 31 August 2015

sydboy007 said:
pic

View attachment 64101

I don't know how old you are syd, but back in the day, I think it was mid seventies, the WA traffic cops were kitted out with kawasaki bikes, jack boots and an SS style uniform. The cops fell right into the role of judge, jury and executioner, with gusto.... the WESTERN AUSTRALIAN public were to be brought into line with Mr Court's/Liberal Party's idea of regimen and discipline.

Tisme · 31 August 2015

luutzu said:
Going to have my imported beer now What's wrong with VB? They used to be nice, now it's like cheap tea.

The few times I buy packaged beer, I have started up with Millers.

Tisme · 31 August 2015

If a minister doesn't bother reading emails and follow up emails that have a dire impact on society from intended actions, what other stuff is deemed of no consequence?

Guardian:

The “very, very badly worded” Australian Border Force press release that appeared to threaten random visa checks on the streets of Melbourne was twice sent to the office of the immigration minister, Peter Dutton Guardian Australia has been told.

It was also allegedly cleared at a high level in the border force’s Canberra headquarters.

After the release sparked a snap protest on Friday and forced the Victorian police operation to be abandoned, the border force commissioner, Roman Quaedvlieg, said it had been “cleared at a low level in the organisation”.

But a spokesman for Dutton confirmed on Sunday it had been sent to his office on Wednesday as an attachment to a briefing note about the weekend operation. “It was not opened or read because it looked like a routine operation,” the spokesman said.

Sources later told Guardian Australia a shorter briefing note, again with the press release attached, was sent to Dutton’s office again on Thursday morning. Dutton’s spokesman was contacted for comment.

Quaedvlieg conceded on Friday the media release had been cleared by the Victorian and Tasmanian commander of the border force, Don Smith, who was quoted in the original release saying, “ABF officers will be positioned at various locations around the CBD speaking with any individual we cross paths with,” and, “You need to be aware of the conditions of your visa; if you commit visa fraud you should know it’s only a matter of time before you’re caught out.”

But according to former immigration department officials, including the former communications head Sandi Logan, who say they are informed by current officials close to the issue, the border force assistant secretary for communications and media, Mark Jeffries, also cleared it.

The border force was contacted for comment, but late Sunday referred all questions to the minister’s office.

The force and Victoria police continue to face questions about exactly what role was envisaged for the six ABF officers who were to be deployed in Operation Fortitude.

It is understood six border force officers were to be involved, at two separate locations, to undertake checks as requested by the Victorian police.

The opposition leader, Bill Shorten, described the saga as one of the government’s most “catastrophically silly” ideas on Saturday.

“It’s like a uniformed version of the Prince Philip decision,” he told reporters in Perth. “As more facts came to light yesterday, I don’t think there’s a single Victorian and indeed a single Australian whose jaw just didn’t hit the ground.”

The Greens called for the powers of border force officers to be clarified. “It needs to be cleaned up; they’re not an arm of the military and they’re not a police force,” Senator Sarah Hanson-Young told the ABC, adding: “It’s not clear at all what they think their role is, what indeed the powers are.”

The prime minister, Tony Abbott, said his department had no prior knowledge of the operation.

He said nothing untoward had happened except the agency had issued a poorly worded press release, describing it as a mistake and “over the top”.

Analysis Stopped on the street by border force? Six things you need to know
Following Australian border force’s announcement about conducting visa checks in Melbourne, here are six crucial facts about police and immigration officer powers

“We would never stop people randomly on the street and demand their visa details,” he told reporters in Sydney on Saturday.

Such operational news releases were often issued under the authority of agency officials and not the government, Abbott said. “That all happens at arm’s length from ministers, at arm’s length from the executive government.”

The original release said the operation was to involve Metro Trains, Yarra Trams, the sheriff’s office, the Taxi Services Commission, the ABF and Victoria police. As it would have “a particular focus on people travelling to, from and around the CBD, the group of agencies will work tgether to support the best interests of Melburnians, targeting everything from antisocial behaviour to outstanding warrants”.

SirRumpole · 31 August 2015

Tisme said:
If a minister doesn't bother reading emails and follow up emails that have a dire impact on society from intended actions, what other stuff is deemed of no consequence?

Guardian:

"The government will not comment on on-street matters"

SirRumpole · 31 August 2015

Tony Abbott being urged to consider dumping Joe Hockey and calling a March election: cabinet ministers

Cabinet ministers say Prime Minister Tony Abbott is being urged to dump Joe Hockey as Treasurer if the Canning byelection goes badly for the Liberal Party.

And an early federal election, to be held in March 2016, is also being considered at the highest levels of the Abbott government.
The PM is being urged to dump Treasurer Joe Hockey.

The PM is being urged to dump Treasurer Joe Hockey. Photo: Andrew Meares

Fairfax Media has been told by two cabinet ministers that talks over axing Mr Hockey have been held, with a move to sacrifice the Treasurer designed to shore up Mr Abbott's own leadership and quell a potential backlash after the September 19 poll.
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Social Services Minister Scott Morrison, who is widely considered to be one of the government's star performers, would likely be elevated to the Treasury post and Mr Hockey would be offered another portfolio.

The Liberal Party holds the seat of Canning with a margin of 11.8 per cent, but recent polling in the seat shows it is now on a knife edge, with swings to Labor of as much as 10 per cent forecast.

One cabinet minister familiar with the talks said a swing against the Coalition of more than six per cent - which would still see the Liberal Party's candidate Andrew Hastie win the seat -â‚¬“ would be bad news for the prime minister and more than 10 per cent would be "dire".

"They are considering dumping Hockey post-Canning and believe that will get them to Christmas," the minister said, with any move dependent on the result.

A second cabinet minister said Mr Abbott was under "Å“enormous pressure" and it was possible Mr Hockey would be "thrown to the wolves"â‚¬ to protect the prime minister's leadership.

Two weeks ago, Nervous Liberal MPs told Fairfax Media that if the Coalition lost the Canning byelection it would be "all over" for Mr Abbott.

The move on Mr Hockey would be designed to reset the Abbott government's economic messaging, direction and strategy, shore up the prime minister'â‚¬™s hold on the leadership just seven months after an extraordinary spill motion and see the government through until Christmas.

Under the plan, parliament would then not return in February and instead a double dissolution election would be held in March.

A third cabinet minister approached by Fairfax Media about the prospect of Mr Hockey being dumped and a March poll being called said they "wouldn't write that off as a theory".

That minister said a swing of less than six per cent against the Abbott government in Canning would be a good result.

And a fourth minister said "if Canning goes badly, he [Mr Abbott] will have to do something dramatic, quickly" but played down the likelihood of Mr Hockey being dumped for Mr Morrison.

That minister said a March poll was "absolutely on the cards" and that Mr Abbott was expected to reshuffle his front bench by the end of the year.

This is not the first time there have been internal discussions about Mr Hockey's future, with Mr Abbott promising in May that the Treasurer would stay in his job until the next election no matter how his second budget was received.

A decision to dump Mr Hockey would be politically risky as, despite having endured a difficult 15 months since handing down his first budget, the Treasurer has a loyal band of supporters in the party room.

It would be welcomed, however, by some in Coalition ranks who in part blame the Treasurer for the government's current woes, including the fact that it has trailed in the polls since the May 2014 budget.

The leaking of confidential talks about the future of Mr Hockey and a possible early election could also stay the Prime Minister's hand and ensure the Treasurer remains.

Last week, Mr Hockey was again criticised by colleagues for being distracted from his day job after signing up to co-chair a parliamentary friendship group for an Australian Republic and for a speech that again flagged personal income tax which was short on detail.

The Abbott government has been hit by a rolling series of crises and missteps including most recently the resignation of former Speaker Bronwyn Bishop and questions over the future of trade union Royal Commissioner Dyson Heydon.

A spokesman for Mr Abbott said he had full confidence in his Treasurer and "the Prime Minister is on the record as saying he expects the Government to run a full term".

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-ministers-20150830-gjaysw.html#ixzz3kLebcK00

Of course this is just another LUG-Fairfax-ABC-Lefty conspiracy

sydboy007 · 31 August 2015

sptrawler said:
Actually I think the question is, why is everyone so quick to jump to conclusions, just because the media say something.

I find most reporting these days appalling, usually flawed and often inaccurate.

The media is so preoccupied with trying to get to press, accuracy and authenticity, is secondary.IMO

The story has to be at least three days old, before the facts, can be regarded as anywhere near accurate.IMO

Part of my role at work is to raise outage notices which get seen on the web page of the 2 brands of ISP I support.

One of my KPIs is to manage this process in a timely manner ie get the notice up not too long after the outage starts and remove it not too long the outage is fixed. It's not coket science, but keeps out customers properly informed of any issues.

Over 24 hours of community agitation from the media release just seems too long to have been due to the higher ups not knowing what was going on. The fact it took till a decent protest had formed for the Friday 2pm scheduled media presentation till things were "clarified" makes me suspicious. Call me crazy but I'm just sceptical of what ANY politician says these days.

The Govt is spending a few million each quarter on media monitoring alone, including twitter, so they had to know pretty quickly what was going on. If not, they need to review their contracts because they're not getting much for their money.

Tisme · 31 August 2015

sydboy007 said:
Part of my role at work is to raise outage notices which get seen on the web page of the 2 brands of ISP I support.

One of my KPIs is to manage this process in a timely manner ie get the notice up not too long after the outage starts and remove it not too long the outage is fixed. It's not coket science, but keeps out customers properly informed of any issues.

Over 24 hours of community agitation from the media release just seems too long to have been due to the higher ups not knowing what was going on. The fact it took till a decent protest had formed for the Friday 2pm scheduled media presentation till things were "clarified" makes me suspicious. Call me crazy but I'm just sceptical of what ANY politician says these days.

The Govt is spending a few million each quarter on media monitoring alone, including twitter, so they had to know pretty quickly what was going on. If not, they need to review their contracts because they're not getting much for their money.

Maybe Dutton is the sacrificial goat to shore up Abbott's voter base, not Hockey?

SirRumpole · 31 August 2015

A lot of food for thought here

Australia's treatment of asylum seekers was bound to lead to something like Border Force

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-bound-to-lead-to-something-like-border-force

sptrawler · 31 August 2015

sydboy007 said:
Part of my role at work is to raise outage notices which get seen on the web page of the 2 brands of ISP I support.

One of my KPIs is to manage this process in a timely manner ie get the notice up not too long after the outage starts and remove it not too long the outage is fixed. It's not coket science, but keeps out customers properly informed of any issues.

Over 24 hours of community agitation from the media release just seems too long to have been due to the higher ups not knowing what was going on. The fact it took till a decent protest had formed for the Friday 2pm scheduled media presentation till things were "clarified" makes me suspicious. Call me crazy but I'm just sceptical of what ANY politician says these days.

The Govt is spending a few million each quarter on media monitoring alone, including twitter, so they had to know pretty quickly what was going on. If not, they need to review their contracts because they're not getting much for their money.

I think the truth is the last thing we hear from any of them, that is why it is important people form their own opinions, not parrot what they are being fed by politicians and the media.
I agree with most of what you say, and your lateral thinking, it will only get better with age and experience.
I seriously mean that, IMO your only failing( which probably isn't the right word) is your faith and belief that most people are nice. Time, experience and disappointments will smooth that out.
Keep posting, they are the high point of general chat.

noco · 31 August 2015

SirRumpole said:
A lot of food for thought here

Australia's treatment of asylum seekers was bound to lead to something like Border Force

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-bound-to-lead-to-something-like-border-force

ROTFL.....

What else would expect from that Red Rag Guardian News Paper...They are more biased than the ABC and that Lenore Taylor is as far left as she can be and an Abbott hater....I listened to her on Insiders with Barry Cassidy on Sunday morning and she is making out it is all Abbott's fault. The whole thing a storm in a tea cup.

What a beef up by this woman.....Would not be surprised if she was a Fabian.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

SirRumpole · 31 August 2015

noco said:
ROTFL.....

What else would expect from that Red Rag Guardian News Paper...They are more biased than the ABC and that Lenore Taylor is as far left as she can be and an Abbott hater....I listened to her on Insiders with Barry Cassidy on Sunday morning and she is making out it is all Abbott's fault. The whole thing a storm in a tea cup.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Maybe I should have said "food for thought for those capable of it"

noco · 31 August 2015

SirRumpole said:
Maybe I should have said "food for thought for those capable of it"

There is no food for thought in that long drawn out report..

And you know as well I do, the Guardian News Paper is a communist paper...What else would you expect from them.

Did you really believe what you read?

The Abbott Government

Smurf1976

sptrawler

luutzu

luutzu

Smurf1976

sptrawler

luutzu

noco

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

SirRumpole

SirRumpole

sydboy007

Tisme

Apathetic at Best

SirRumpole

sptrawler

noco

SirRumpole

noco

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