The Abbott Government

[McLovin]

BTW McLovin's point about telling them where to go would result in quite a serious offense.

I'll wear the fine. I'll take it to court. I've got a mate who's a criminal barrister. He loves these sort of cases.

Why on Earth have we created another police force (that apparently doesn't even know its own powers)? The boats were stopped. So what exactly was the purpose of this except for a bit of security circle jerk?

 

[sptrawler]

I'll wear the fine. I'll take it to court. I've got a mate who's a criminal barrister. He loves these sort of cases.

Why on Earth have we created another police force (that apparently doesn't even know its own powers)? The boats were stopped. So what exactly was the purpose of this except for a bit of security circle jerk?

Now that is a reasonable response.

All the other white noise, is typical anti Abbott tripe.

 

[noco]

So one excuses the other does it ?

The majority vote for dills like Dutton and we have every right to express our opinions on the actions of government.

And what makes you think people who criticise operation "Fortitude" don't have a similar opinion of union pickets ?

Check your facts Rumpy.

Dutton, Abbott and the government had nothing to do with it...They did not even know about it.

 

[SirRumpole]

Check your facts Rumpy.

Dutton, Abbott and the government had nothing to do with it...They did not even know about it.

Where did you get that info ?

Dutton is the Minister, he is responsible for his Department. I suppose some underling could have had a bright idea without consulting Dutton, but usually bureaucrats act on what they think their Minister wants.

 

[noco]

Where did you get that info ?

Dutton is the Minister, he is responsible for his Department. I suppose some underling could have had a bright idea without consulting Dutton, but usually bureaucrats act on what they think their Minister wants.

From Yahoo 7 news.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29383435/pm-says-border-force-operation-a-mistake/


PM says Border Force operation a mistake

AAP
August 30, 2015, 3:31 am

Share

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has distanced himself from the cancelled Australian Border Force operation, saying he had no prior knowledge of it.

Mr Abbott said the agency obviously made a mistake by issuing a poorly worded and over-the-top news release that outlined plans for random visa spot checks in Melbourne at the weekend.

Such operational releases are often issued by agencies at arm's length from ministers and the government, he said.

The prime minister reassured the public his government had no plans to stop people at random to check their visa details.

But Labor is demanding the government take responsibility for the affair.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has described the operation as one of the government's most "catastrophically silly" ideas.

Of course the puppet of the LUG Party , barnacle Bill has jumped on the band wagon.

 

[sydboy007]

From Yahoo 7 news.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/29383435/pm-says-border-force-operation-a-mistake/

So, when was the media release advising that Border Force were going to be working witht eh Vic Polic released?

I think it was last Wednesday, possibly earlier in the week.

How does the PM, let alone Dutton, not know about this on Friday? iF it was al just a silly mistake, why did it take so long to be fixed? From the sounds of it things only changed after the Vic Police told Border Force to get stuffed.

The media release was based on quotes from the The Victoria / Tasmania area commander for Border Force Don Smith. It wasn't something a low level employee decided to add to a media release. One would think that quotes from someone up that high in the Border Force command structure would be reliable, would have been signaled back through the chain of command to the minister and on to the PM before the media release was authorised.

If this didn't happen then Don Smith needs to reconsider whether he's up to the task he's been assigned.

This was dog whistle politics, to see how much support or opposition would occur.

Fortunately Border Force and the Govt have been put into their place.

Now if only we could get the Govt to reconsider their internet tax meta data laws we might see some real progress in protecting our civil liberties.

 

[awg]

As far as I am aware, one is not legally required to carry ID in Australia, except under some situations such as driving, flying etc.

An example of a situation where no ID is carried may be just going for a walk.

If an officer has "reasonable cause", they can ask for you name, address and age, which you are obliged to supply

You are not required to answer any further questions

Traditionally, you risk being charged with offensive language and resist arrest if you are seen to be un-cooperative

I am unsure on whether it is legally permitted to pull out ones mobile phone and record in ALL situations.

In full public view, yes, however, in a one-on-one situation with only Police (or Border Force) present, I do not know whether it is illegal to record the interaction ?

I believe they will claim this to be the case...can anyone clarify?

 

[noco]

So, when was the media release advising that Border Force were going to be working witht eh Vic Polic released?

I think it was last Wednesday, possibly earlier in the week.

How does the PM, let alone Dutton, not know about this on Friday? iF it was al just a silly mistake, why did it take so long to be fixed? From the sounds of it things only changed after the Vic Police told Border Force to get stuffed.

The media release was based on quotes from the The Victoria / Tasmania area commander for Border Force Don Smith. It wasn't something a low level employee decided to add to a media release. One would think that quotes from someone up that high in the Border Force command structure would be reliable, would have been signaled back through the chain of command to the minister and on to the PM before the media release was authorised.

If this didn't happen then Don Smith needs to reconsider whether he's up to the task he's been assigned.

This was dog whistle politics, to see how much support or opposition would occur.

Fortunately Border Force and the Govt have been put into their place.

Now if only we could get the Govt to reconsider their internet tax meta data laws we might see some real progress in protecting our civil liberties.

I guess you are entitled to your opinion be it right or wrong.

 

[McLovin]

As far as I am aware, one is not legally required to carry ID in Australia, except under some situations such as driving, flying etc.

An example of a situation where no ID is carried may be just going for a walk.

If an officer has "reasonable cause", they can ask for you name, address and age, which you are obliged to supply

You are not required to answer any further questions

Traditionally, you risk being charged with offensive language and resist arrest if you are seen to be un-cooperative

I am unsure on whether it is legally permitted to pull out ones mobile phone and record in ALL situations.

In full public view, yes, however, in a one-on-one situation with only Police (or Border Force) present, I do not know whether it is illegal to record the interaction ?

I believe they will claim this to be the case...can anyone clarify?

Here's the law on ID in NSW...

Other circumstances when you have to give your name and address:
- If you are suspected of committing an offence on a train or railway property

- If police suspect that you are under 18 and you are carrying or consuming alcohol in a public place— they may also require you to provide proof of age (if you are under 18 they may take your alcohol)

- If police suspect that you were at or near the scene of a serious offence and that you may have information that would assist them

-If police are trying to serve a fine default warrant

- If police have emergency public disorder powers and you are in a target area, and the police suspect that you have been or may become involved in a large-scale public disorder
- If police suspect that an Apprehended Violence Order has been made against you they can request you to disclose your identity

- When the police give you a 'move on direction' if your identity is unknown to the police.

You can record any interaction you have with police until you are placed under arrest at which point you shut up until you have a lawyer.

Using obscene language is not resisting arrest, unless they made it known they were placing you under arrest. Of course to place someone under arrest they need to make the person aware of the offence they have committed, and refusing to identify yourself is not an offence.

 

[drsmith]

That's where I'd lay the blame if there was government involvement.

He was shifted out of health and into what is now largely a caretaker portfolio for a reason.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...e-received-border-force-press-release/6735584

Peter Dutton's office received an advanced copy of the press release saying Australian Border Force officers would be cracking down on visa fraud but no-one read it, the Immigration Minister says.

Fairfax overreach,

CORRECTION: An earlier version of this column incorrectly asserted that the Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, was involved in the decision to launch a planned Border Force operation in Melbourne. Fairfax Media accepts unreservedly that Mr Abbott was not involved in this decision, and also accepts that Mr Abbott had no foreknowledge of the Border Force plan to stop and speak to people about their visa status.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/borde...ls-the-leadership-vacuum-20150828-gja8cj.html

 

[sptrawler]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-...e-received-border-force-press-release/6735584



Fairfax overreach,



http://www.smh.com.au/comment/borde...ls-the-leadership-vacuum-20150828-gja8cj.html

Faifax smear for days, get everyone wound up, then say oops we were wrong.

Sounds normal to me.

They certainly have it in for Abbott.

It had all the laborites on here excited, must be a bit of a let down for them.
Not to worry there will be another load of tripe rolled out by Fairfax next week, to get them all revved up and frothing at the mouth. Chooks.IMO

 

[banco]

I'll wear the fine. I'll take it to court. I've got a mate who's a criminal barrister. He loves these sort of cases.

Why on Earth have we created another police force (that apparently doesn't even know its own powers)? The boats were stopped. So what exactly was the purpose of this except for a bit of security circle jerk?

Abbott's reelection hinges on a security circle jerk.

 

[sydboy007]

Faifax smear for days, get everyone wound up, then say oops we were wrong.

Sounds normal to me.

They certainly have it in for Abbott.

It had all the laborites on here excited, must be a bit of a let down for them.
Not to worry there will be another load of tripe rolled out by Fairfax next week, to get them all revved up and frothing at the mouth. Chooks.IMO

So the question is have they put someone who's competent enough to run the Victoria and Tasmania offices of Border Force?

Why did it take till Friday before the mistake was acknowledged and sorted out? The press release was in the wild on Thursday. If it had been knocked on the head fairly quickly I'd tend to believe the Govt story of someone being a bit silly and over reaching, but when it was left for over a day before finally being canned, it just makes me wonder if it was a test to see what the reaction would be to this kind of "policing"

I don't understand how Dutton can say the media release was poorly written when it was quoting a senior member of the Border Force and what they were expecting their officers to do over this weekend. Exactly how has the public misinterpreted "speaking with any individual we cross paths with"?

 

[noco]

Faifax smear for days, get everyone wound up, then say oops we were wrong.

Sounds normal to me.

They certainly have it in for Abbott.

It had all the laborites on here excited, must be a bit of a let down for them.
Not to worry there will be another load of tripe rolled out by Fairfax next week, to get them all revved up and frothing at the mouth. Chooks.IMO

The LUG party got it wrong again...egg on face.

 

[banco]

So the question is have they put someone who's competent enough to run the Victoria and Tasmania offices of Border Force?

Why did it take till Friday before the mistake was acknowledged and sorted out? The press release was in the wild on Thursday. If it had been knocked on the head fairly quickly I'd tend to believe the Govt story of someone being a bit silly and over reaching, but when it was left for over a day before finally being canned, it just makes me wonder if it was a test to see what the reaction would be to this kind of "policing"

I don't understand how Dutton can say the media release was poorly written when it was quoting a senior member of the Border Force and what they were expecting their officers to do over this weekend. Exactly how has the public misinterpreted "speaking with any individual we cross paths with"?

View attachment 64101

Read this on twitter: "It was only supposed to inspire fear and complicity. Not outrage and protest. We are sorry it was poorly worded".

 

[SirRumpole]

Read this on twitter: "It was only supposed to inspire fear and complicity. Not outrage and protest. We are sorry it was poorly worded".

Who said that ?

 

[banco]

Who said that ?

Some journalist being sarcastic,

 

[McLovin]

Abbott's reelection hinges on a security circle jerk.

No argument from me. Khaki is the new black.

 

[sptrawler]

So the question is have they put someone who's competent enough to run the Victoria and Tasmania offices of Border Force?

Actually I think the question is, why is everyone so quick to jump to conclusions, just because the media say something.

I find most reporting these days appalling, usually flawed and often inaccurate.

The media is so preoccupied with trying to get to press, accuracy and authenticity, is secondary.IMO

The story has to be at least three days old, before the facts, can be regarded as anywhere near accurate.IMO

 

[noco]

Actually I think the question is, why is everyone so quick to jump to conclusions, just because the media say something.

I find most reporting these days appalling, usually flawed and often inaccurate.

The media is so preoccupied with trying to get to press, accuracy and authenticity, is secondary.IMO

The story has to be at least three days old, before the facts, can be regarded as anywhere near accurate.IMO

It all generally come from the Abbott haters....GOTCHA....GOTCHA...GOTCHA.

It is absolute b#ll $hit the way the modern media carry on....But there again that is the Fabians at work.

Criticize the government and discredit Abbott.

Control the media and you take control of those naive people out there who cannot think for themselves.