The Abbott Government

Basilio, I'll not dignify your conspiracy theory with a response, except to say that it would be better to open a thread on government Cc policies specifically, if you want to discuss that.

waza1960 said:

Although a TA supporter I don't agree with him fighting fires while he is PM.
This is not to say that his volunteer work over the years is not to be commended just that
being a PM is a full time job and he should be totally focused on that.

Click to expand...

As I understand it, he does it at the weekends which are nominally at least his own free time.
You probably wouldn't object if he spent his weekend at the beach with his family, relaxing, so I don't see why anyone would object if he instead chooses to contribute to his community.

Not directing this remark at you, waza, but I'm just blown away by the level of nastiness directed toward Mr Abbott's fire fighting activities. He'd be up for less vituperative criticism if he was going to a brothel.

Labor acolytes: maybe try to at least contain your venom to realistic complaints about the government, rather than the worthwhile community activity of someone who is actually setting a decent example and has been so doing for many years.

wayneL said:

Basilio, I'll not dignify your conspiracy theory with a response, except to say that it would be better to open a thread on government Cc policies specifically, if you want to discuss that.

Click to expand...

Really Wayne? I would have thought that the thread on The Abott Government would have been the right place to discuss the various policy options and activities of the government.

Or are you suggesting that we need to open up specific sub threads under The Abbott Government like
Asylum seekers, Rorts, Economic Management, Foreign affairs, Education, Environment policy ?

Or does this suggestion only apply to CC and the effects this might have on the economy, health, goverance, international relations, mining policy ect . ?

Basilio

Climate change has the potential to turn this thread into an argument on.... climate change, which we have a thread on. As it is likely to go off st such a tangent, the existing CC thread or a specific thread would be a better place.

Julia lets accept that Tony Abbott is and has been genuine in his volunteer role as a fire fighter.

In the bigger picture however I think as PM he has bigger responsibilities to cover than spending weekends in this way.

Consider another possibility. What if TA was really interested in planting trees with a local environment group. Would it be reasonable that he whips on on his weekends as PM plant a few hundred trees with the local scouts ? (Mind you I suggest this just might happen soon.)

Being PM is a huge 24/7 job. I suggest good advice from his staff would be to reconsider his priorities.

waza1960 said:

Although a TA supporter I don't agree with him fighting fires while he is PM.
This is not to say that his volunteer work over the years is not to be commended just that
being a PM is a full time job and he should be totally focussed on that.
BTW what happens with his protection detail whilst he is fighting fires do they fight fires as well?

Click to expand...

I'm with you on this one wazza.

For the CEO of an organisation to turn up on the 'factory floor' or 'front line' in the middle of an exceptionally busy, let alone dangerous time, to so called help out, is not appropriate.

It distracts peoples attention from their primary objective in a busy and dangerous moment. That puts peoples lives at risk.

It also reflects an inappropriate attention seeking behaviour. Politicians are renowned attention seekers. Beattie was quite the media tart, but Abbott is coming across as quite the busy bee... the busiest person in the world and need for admiration, overworking those around them and interpersonally exploitative, taking advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends... maybe even a bit narcissistic: the pursuit of gratification from vanity, or egotistic admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride.

I'd prefer to have seen him put in an appearance in the control centre to help coordinate extra resources such as the military to push fire breaks and help with better access to and supply of resources to the fire fronts etc.

There was and still is a lot that can be done to protect homes or slow and ultimately stop the fire, such as felling trees along fire breaks and around houses in the fire path so that the fire can't leap across tree tops. The tree tops are going to die anyway if the fire hits.

I don't see many people thinking outside the square in this fire event... and Abbott more intent on being seen to be inside the square.

Oh my Lord!

Whiskers, I actually think that post is more of an insight into your psychology than Abbott's.

LMAO

wayneL said:

Oh my Lord!

Whiskers, I actually think that post is more of an insight into your psychology than Abbott's.

LMAO

Click to expand...

Yes, as your post is into your psychology!

Rather than just attempted ridicule, you might like to explain... including whether you can draw from any knowledge or experience you have in rural fire fighting and management of people in crisis situations.

Not relevant.

The relevant point is the absurdity of remote psychoanalysis via ABC/NEWS.

It is indeed ridiculous.

wayneL said:

Not relevant.

The relevant point is the absurdity of remote psychoanalysis via ABC/NEWS.

It is indeed ridiculous.

Click to expand...

So, you don't do a bit of unconscious psychoanalysis before you pass judgement and comment on politics the ABC bias or whatever!?.. of course you do!

Are you suggesting the NSW fire service, of which he is a member, is above reproach? Their record over the last decade or so leaves a lot to be desired in terms of not only fast action, but preventative action.

Apart from a degree of negligence, one could even make a claim of a bit of the "The Saviour" syndrome, not uncommon in emergency services.

That's where people either negligently avoid fire mitigation or adequate responses, or deliberately light fires as has been the case a few times, so they can be seen as the hero coming to peoples rescue.

The fact that Abbott didn't announce this excursion beforehand doesn't prove he wasn't attention seeking... on the contrary, 'the saviour' never does, but they always pose somewhere to get the attention they seek... as did Abbott for at least a couple of pictures that anyone would be naïve beyond belief to think they wouldn't eventually make their way into the public domain.

To get back to my main point though, the position of PM is too important with too many responsibilities to pretend that you can and will perform your usual volunteer duties without detracting from the position of PM or the efforts of the service men and women.


Hardly just another day as a volunteer firey.

Notwithstanding your opinion about whether Abbott should be out there or not, your analysis is still sheer speculation, tainted by your bias.

I can speculate about his motivation also, and it would be different to your speculation. We could indulge in internecine warfare about who is more correct... alas I doubt either of us will ever know.

Tell me it cannot be true?

Treasurer Joe Hockey says Commonwealth debt limit being increased to $500 billion

The Federal Government has announced a $200 billion increase to the Commonwealth debt ceiling and a six-month audit into Government spending in the face of a "deteriorating" budget position.

Click to expand...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/joe-hockey-announces-commission-of-audit-details/5038314

MrBurns said:

Yes you did you rode in with your comment on the tail of his firefighting efforts.

Click to expand...

Then you've made an incorrect assumption

MrBurns said:

You said he was wrongfully claiming expenses, same thing.

Click to expand...

Nope. In the case of the ATO you claim going to wedding or iron man competition as a work related expense you have to prove the claim should the ATO decide to audit you, and wear siginficant financial penalties should you have made a false claim. Making a dud claim via the politicians expenses is pretty much a slap on the wrist, pay back the money and nothing happens. The 2 systems couldn't be more different. I'd love for an ATO style to be taken with the politicians. Might make them think twice before making the dodgy claims they're being caught oyut with.

Julia said:

For god's sake, syd, give it a rest. How would you go out there fighting fires most of the weekend?

Imo Mr Abbott is leading by example in terms of contributing to his local community, especially in a time of considerable need.
It seems paltry and especially nasty to me that you should, in these circumstances which are dreadful for so many, continue to deride Mr Abbott's contributions.

Click to expand...

You're like Mr Burns claiming I've attacked Abbott on his fire fighting. Please point to the post where I did that.

I was attacking Abbott on making claims to charity events and billing his costs to the taxpayer. Did you know he was claiming his 'costs" to the tax payer when at these events? I didn't. I had a lot of respect for the charity work he did, but now that I've found out he views it as work and billed US for it, well I still respect the time he's given for it, but it was quite quid pro quo in that he's gained a lot of community good will for his effort. How does one claim an Iron Man event is "charity work"??? If Abbott wants to make his claims against the tax payer, fair enough, but be honest and open about it. I definitely have more respect for a person who does their charity work and bears any costs associated with it, than someone who does the charity work but claims their travel and accommodation costs against the tax payer.

Julia said:

Your contribution here seems rather like that from Adam Bandt and Christine Milne: happy to sit in their inner city safety and hurl abuse. Maybe consider actually getting out there yourself and making a worthwhile contribution to your community instead of incessantly pulling down the efforts of others.

Click to expand...

How about to confine your comments to the discussion rather than making broad based assumptions about me. I probably do more charity work that 90% of the people on this forum. I've helped to fund and taken an active role in the education of 4 children in Thailand over the last 15 years. I enjoying seeing the older of the 2 having decent white collar jobs and starting their families and having the kind of life they would never have achieved without my aid. I also enjoyed helping them with their English, and proofing their assignments over the years. I happy to have provided these children the kind of opportunities I was lucky enough to gain by living in a wealthy country.

My first job out of university was with a disabilities charity, and I still actively help them out nearly 20 years later, and have gone through the pain of seeing a few of those I worked with pass away due to the shortened life span they face.

- - - Updated - - -

IFocus said:

Tell me it cannot be true?

Treasurer Joe Hockey says Commonwealth debt limit being increased to $500 billion



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/joe-hockey-announces-commission-of-audit-details/5038314

Click to expand...

I hear too much sun exposure has corrupted the surplus DNA of the L+NP

IFocus said:

Tell me it cannot be true?

Treasurer Joe Hockey says Commonwealth debt limit being increased to $500 billion

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/joe-hockey-announces-commission-of-audit-details/5038314

Click to expand...

It's to provide for those Labor surpluses.

sydboy007 said:

How about to confine your comments to the discussion rather than making broad based assumptions about me. I probably do more charity work that 90% of the people on this forum.

Click to expand...

Good-on-ya sydboy for keeping a civilised tone in the face of some nasty attacks.

I don't agree with all your reasoning about everything, but I commend you for your focus on the subject matter and willingness to provide detailed explanation with a much greater sense of empathy and humanity about you than a few on here.

I'm amazed at how some people can completely misrepresent what others have written to the extent they do.

I hear too much sun exposure has corrupted the surplus DNA of the L+NP

Click to expand...

I hoped the LNP would do the right thing, like they portrayed, but feared something worse. Apart from the conflicting messages and actions to now, this is becoming quite a concern, a significant betrayal of trust.

$200 Billion a very significant increase.

In May last year, the Coalition attacked the then Labor government's decision to raise Australia's debt ceiling by a further $50 billion to $300 billion, with Tony Abbott describing it as ''really extraordinary''.

On Tuesday, Mr Hockey said he wanted to avoid what had happened recently in the United States – where a Democrat and Republican standoff shut down much of government – and he wanted to ensure that the debt limit issue was never raised again.

“What matters is not the debt limit, it’s the debt,” Mr Hockey told reporters in Canberra, adding that the government needed a “credible” plan to lower debt levels.

“This is a legacy of bad Labor government.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...500-billion-20131022-2vyog.html#ixzz2iRjtGJr1​

Wasn't the plan to cut the waste? What has happened or is likely to happen to require a 66% increase in debt?

Whiskers said:

“What matters is not the debt limit, it’s the debt,” Mr Hockey told reporters in Canberra, adding that the government needed a “credible” plan to lower debt levels.

Click to expand...

I am wondering the situation in Australia and the US is even comparable, with regards to the debt limit? It is due to the current nature of their political system that they have these issues with their debt limit.

If Hockey has been able to raise our debt limit by $200 billion just like that, and out of nowhere... than surely we are in a different situation, and don't run the risk of having stand offs over running out of money like in the US?

Does someone with a little more knowledge in this area have a better understanding of this than me? Prefer to keep out discussions of, "Labor did this though, so Liberal did that." Don't care.

But I am wondering that the situation in Australia is entirely different to that of the US?

basilio said:

Julia lets accept that Tony Abbott is and has been genuine in his volunteer role as a fire fighter.

In the bigger picture however I think as PM he has bigger responsibilities to cover than spending weekends in this way.

Click to expand...

Exactly how would you like him to spend his weekends (not that it's any of your business)?

Consider another possibility. What if TA was really interested in planting trees with a local environment group. Would it be reasonable that he whips on on his weekends as PM plant a few hundred trees with the local scouts ? (Mind you I suggest this just might happen soon.)

Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely. Why on earth not if he's so disposed. More than any other party leaders are doing while they snipe from the sidelines.

Whiskers said:

It also reflects an inappropriate attention seeking behaviour. Politicians are renowned attention seekers. Beattie was quite the media tart, but Abbott is coming across as quite the busy bee... the busiest person in the world and need for admiration, overworking those around them and interpersonally exploitative, taking advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends... maybe even a bit narcissistic: the pursuit of gratification from vanity, or egotistic admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride.

Click to expand...

Oh, here we go again with the psychobabble. What qualifications do you have to provide us with a psychological profile of Mr Abbott, Whiskers?
He was out there fighting fires long before taking on any leadership position. It just doesn't seem to occur to you that he might actually be a decent human being, interested in supporting his local community in whatever way his capacity might allow.

What would you have politicians do in preference to undertaking community activities during their nominal leisure time?

I'd prefer to have seen him put in an appearance in the control centre to help coordinate extra resources such as the military to push fire breaks and help with better access to and supply of resources to the fire fronts etc.

Click to expand...

He apparently considers he has more to offer in a more active capacity. As it's a volunteer role, it's entirely up to him to choose the role, not for you to tell him what he should be doing.

wayneL said:

Oh my Lord!

Whiskers, I actually think that post is more of an insight into your psychology than Abbott's.

LMAO

Click to expand...

+1.

sydboy007 said:

How about to confine your comments to the discussion rather than making broad based assumptions about me. I probably do more charity work that 90% of the people on this forum. I've helped to fund and taken an active role in the education of 4 children in Thailand over the last 15 years. I enjoying seeing the older of the 2 having decent white collar jobs and starting their families and having the kind of life they would never have achieved without my aid. I also enjoyed helping them with their English, and proofing their assignments over the years. I happy to have provided these children the kind of opportunities I was lucky enough to gain by living in a wealthy country.

My first job out of university was with a disabilities charity, and I still actively help them out nearly 20 years later, and have gone through the pain of seeing a few of those I worked with pass away due to the shortened life span they face.

Click to expand...

I'm heartened and delighted to hear it, syd. Good for you.

sydboy007 said:

My first job out of university was with a disabilities charity, and I still actively help them out nearly 20 years later, and have gone through the pain of seeing a few of those I worked with pass away due to the shortened life span they face.

Click to expand...

I thought that given your passion you were a young bloke but in reality, you're not much younger than me.

Julia said:

Oh, here we go again with the psychobabble. What qualifications do you have to provide us with a psychological profile of Mr Abbott, Whiskers?

Click to expand...

Well, you also seem oblivious to it, but as pointed out in response wayneL's attempt to ridicule, (which you endorsed) you are passing a considerable psychoanalysis of Abbott with your passionate endorsement of his actions and belittling of anyone who asks reasonable questions of his judgement.

It appears you have not noticed that a lot of people, including on twitter where it first broke that he was out there, questioned his judgement. That's the issue, his judgement in his capacity as CEO.

Maybe you would like to address...

Rather than just attempted ridicule, you might like to explain... including whether you can draw from any knowledge or experience you have in rural fire fighting and management of people in crisis situations.​

I have actually had experience in both living in a rural residential area and continually plan for and manage fire risk, prevention and occasionally fire fighting. How about you, Julia?

And like when you completely misrepresented what I said in an earlier post, ignoring the conditional "if"... you attack with completely baseless ridicule of sydboy...

Quote Originally Posted by Julia View Post
Your contribution here seems rather like that from Adam Bandt and Christine Milne: happy to sit in their inner city safety and hurl abuse. Maybe consider actually getting out there yourself and making a worthwhile contribution to your community instead of incessantly pulling down the efforts of others.

Click to expand...

and when confronted with his response, you don't demonstrate any remorse for a completely wrong accusation, but a patronisingly sarcastic...

I'm heartened and delighted to hear it, syd. Good for you.

Click to expand...

If you were a psychoanalyst I wouldn't go within a hundred miles of you!... as are many who are starting to question Abbotts judgement as evidenced by the twitter report.

Unfortunately, his word is also increasingly coming into question as well!

“Don't raise your voice, improve your argument."
― Desmond Tutu

Just for clarification, improve your argument means improve your analysis, not condemnation of the messenger.

ChrisJH said:

I am wondering the situation in Australia and the US is even comparable, with regards to the debt limit? It is due to the current nature of their political system that they have these issues with their debt limit.

If Hockey has been able to raise our debt limit by $200 billion just like that, and out of nowhere... than surely we are in a different situation, and don't run the risk of having stand offs over running out of money like in the US?

Does someone with a little more knowledge in this area have a better understanding of this than me? Prefer to keep out discussions of, "Labor did this though, so Liberal did that." Don't care.

But I am wondering that the situation in Australia is entirely different to that of the US?

Click to expand...

The bureaucratic setup in Australia is through the Loans Council which is little heard of, is headed by the fed treasurer and includes all state and territory treasurers and is virtually a rubber stamp for government loans. It can not be blocked by the other side of government per se, except in the event of blocking new legislation in relation to 'supply', a bill that authorizes expenditure of funds on government activities for the financial year.

While not yet explained by the government, the problem seems to be that they maybe don't have enough budgeted funds to get through this financial year.

A clue is that they said Rudd had not provided funding in the budget past December for the PNG solution. There may be other reasons such as the new governments plans costing more than they led us to believe.

The thing that has me a bit curious is that if there is so much to be saved in government inefficiency, why is it going to take so long to have the reviews and implement any changes?